In-progress: V30 vs EVM 12S

[7704A]

I finally got two of my EVMs over here, and will be comparing them to the 8 ohm chinese V30s I picked up for this purpose. The EVM 12S' are in a front-loaded Carvin Legacy slant, and the V30s are in a rear-loaded Peavey XXX slant. I'm going to rotate them in the cabs too so that which cabinet they're in doesn't affect things.

I have some preliminary clips on my phone that I'll post soon, but they're far from ideal representations. Anything you guys think I should try while comparing?

 

[7704A]

Tracks above are recorded with my phone around 4-6 ft in front of each cab at about the same height. Two V30's in the top of a Peavey XXX 4x12, with the bottom slots open. Two EVM 12S Pro-Lines in the top of a Carvin Legacy 4x12 with the bottom slots open.

The EVMs are pretty worn, with sagging suspensions, and in my experience sound band-passed relative to freshly re-coned ones. But, my fresh ones are still in California so I'll have to wait to compare those. They should have more oomph, air, and bite (and chime!) and hopefully I'll be able to verify that soon.

I also had some issues with volume normalization. I originally LUFS-matched the tracks, but the EVM still sounded quieter. It does have a higher dynamic range, so I'm figuring that the higher transients are pushing the rest of the "continuous" signal lower than the V30. For now, I just boosted it by 1dB which seems to bring it to nearly the same level as the V30.

 

[ChurchHill]

Definitely interested in your results, just not sure I can suggest anything else to try except maybe combining them to see what they're like together in the same cab??? Not far off from what Mesa was doing with the C90s & EVMs in the old metal front cabs.

What do you think of the 12S compared to the 12L? 12S seems to be at least rarer than the 12L or maybe just not as popular. I've got one of each in an oversized 2x12 and really like the combination.

Looking forward to hearing more clips!

 

[VonBonfire]

Tracks above are recorded with my phone around 4-6 ft in front of each cab at about the same height. Two V30's in the top of a Peavey XXX 4x12, with the bottom slots open. Two EVM 12S Pro-Lines in the top of a Carvin Legacy 4x12 with the bottom slots open.

The EVMs are pretty worn, with sagging suspensions, and in my experience sound band-passed relative to freshly re-coned ones. But, my fresh ones are still in California so I'll have to wait to compare those. They should have more oomph, air, and bite (and chime!) and hopefully I'll be able to verify that soon.

I also had some issues with volume normalization. I originally LUFS-matched the tracks, but the EVM still sounded quieter. It does have a higher dynamic range, so I'm figuring that the higher transients are pushing the rest of the "continuous" signal lower than the V30. For now, I just boosted it by 1dB which seems to bring it to nearly the same level as the V30.

The V30's seem a bit more aggressive. I'll be interested to hear your fresh EV's in a head to head with V30's. Also interested to hear what dB/amp volume this test was run at.

 

[7704A]

Definitely interested in your results, just not sure I can suggest anything else to try except maybe combining them to see what they're like together in the same cab??? Not far off from what Mesa was doing with the C90s & EVMs in the old metal front cabs.

I've thought about that, could be worth doing. It'll be interesting to see what that's like using the stereo mic array I usually shove up against the speaker cab. Might also try mixing two different tracks each through the same cab with different speakers to avoid stereo weirdness.

What do you think of the 12S compared to the 12L? 12S seems to be at least rarer than the 12L or maybe just not as popular. I've got one of each in an oversized 2x12 and really like the combination.

I have not personally tried the 12L, the only point of direct comparison I have is this clip on youtube:


To my ears, I prefer the 12S. I'd be interested in getting my hands on a set of 12L's and comparing to my 12S's at some point. I'll probably have one on hand in the future since I'm going to be sticking one in my dad's amp (Dean Markely CD40, a Mesa Mark I/II clone of sorts), maybe I'll be able to scrounge up a 2nd at that point so I can fill a cab.

Aside from direct comparisons, I've heard various 12L vs V30 comparisons on youtube, and have done 12S vs V30 myself. The 12L vs V30 comparisons always seem to show the 12L as being wider, but darker than the V30. Sometimes with a hollow quality. My 12S vs V30 comparisons (in-person and recorded) seem to show the 12S as a bit wider too, but with the mids shifted up relative to the V30 instead of hollow. Same with the Force 12's I've tested. I'm still working on getting a perfect apples-to-apples comparison though. Might have to wait until the end of the semester.

The V30's seem a bit more aggressive. I'll be interested to hear your fresh EV's in a head to head with V30's. Also interested to hear what dB/amp volume this test was run at.

Yes, I'd definitely say that. It's not quite what you asked for, but here is a clip that hints at the differences which may be observed. First is a 70/80 in series with a fresh EVM 12S in a twin-style 2x12 cab (Traynor YCV80), then two fresh EVMs, then a fresh EVM and a worn one. It loops through all three once or twice. I think the worn one is now in the same cab I posted clips of earlier. Credit where due, a friend is playing (who was evaluating which EVM he wanted to buy off me, if any), not me. He bought the fresh EVM, and completed the duet.


Based on the above, and prior comparisons I've heard between 70/80's and V30's, I expect the fresh EVMs to be more aggressive than the V30's and noticeably bigger sounding. Looking forward to finding out.

The volume in the room for the 12S and V30 clips posted earlier was probably around TV-level or lower, however the amp itself was blasting into a Fryette Powerstation. The master was either at 6 or 10, I forget.

 

[VonBonfire]

The volume in the room for the 12S and V30 clips posted earlier was probably around TV-level or lower, however the amp itself was blasting into a Fryette Powerstation. The master was either at 6 or 10, I forget.

I know you aren't in the sort of place where you can really let it rip but it would be ideal if you could get some wattage pumping through the speakers. At least you are getting the amp cooking but results are definitely gonna different when you are pushing more air. I would expect a bit broader, more open sound that will reflect what the speaker would do at a good loud gig. Regardless, look forward to hearing some more results!

 

[ChurchHill]

EVs really open up when they have some power going through them. They get loud quick, too.

IME, you're spot on about the mids being shifted up slightly with the 12S compared to the 12L. Wider than the V30 is a good way to put it, too. Definitely stronger and tighter lows. Not this high-mid peak that the V30 is known for, but not dark by any means, especially when they're opened up.

That video you linked is a good one!

 

[7704A]

At least you are getting the amp cooking but results are definitely gonna different when you are pushing more air. I would expect a bit broader, more open sound that will reflect what the speaker would do at a good loud gig.

I'm curious about that myself. I've found one video purporting to compare high-volume to low-volume EVMs, and there's not that much difference. Though it's not specified what the volumes actually were. @RealAmpsAreDead, can you chime in on how loud "loud" was here?

IME, you're spot on about the mids being shifted up slightly with the 12S compared to the 12L. Wider than the V30 is a good way to put it, too. Definitely stronger and tighter lows. Not this high-mid peak that the V30 is known for, but not dark by any means, especially when they're opened up.

I meant shifted up frequency-wise relative to the V30. The V30 has sort of a "NHAAAWWWWWW" mid-character and the 12S/Force 12 a "CHAW!" Though I agree that the mids are higher in level in the 12S relative to the 12L. That's largely why I prefer it. Sounds meaner. I agree they're not necessarily dark, in fact I was surprised to find how much brighter the EM12 (I know, not "real" EV) IR was compared to all the celestions ones I have. I suppose I had in mind videos like this one, where the EV sounds huge, but not as present as the V30. More "all-encompassing the mix" instead of "poking through."


After some more tests in the room, I'm thinking the higher aggression of the V30 you mentioned @VonBonfire might be an artifact of inequal volumes. Whichever speaker cab I run quieter seems to round off and lose something. Making them approximately equal, the EV doesn't sound less aggressive. Or at least not in a way where it's "missing" anything important. I'll have to see what happens when I hit things with my stereo mic wedge.

 

[RealAmpsAreDead]

I'm curious about that myself. I've found one video purporting to compare high-volume to low-volume EVMs, and there's not that much difference. Though it's not specified what the volumes actually were. @RealAmpsAreDead, can you chime in on how loud "loud" was here?


I meant shifted up frequency-wise relative to the V30. The V30 has sort of a "NHAAAWWWWWW" mid-character and the 12S/Force 12 a "CHAW!" Though I agree that the mids are higher in level in the 12S relative to the 12L. That's largely why I prefer it. Sounds meaner. I agree they're not necessarily dark, in fact I was surprised to find how much brighter the EM12 (I know, not "real" EV) IR was compared to all the celestions ones I have. I suppose I had in mind videos like this one, where the EV sounds huge, but not as present as the V30. More "all-encompassing the mix" instead of "poking through."


After some more tests in the room, I'm thinking the higher aggression of the V30 you mentioned @VonBonfire might be an artifact of inequal volumes. Whichever speaker cab I run quieter seems to round off and lose something. Making them approximately equal, the EV doesn't sound less aggressive. Or at least not in a way where it's "missing" anything important. I'll have to see what happens when I hit things with my stereo mic wedge.

Hi
As far as I can remember one was like bedroom level - like you would play a little louder in a room by yourself, the other was like band rehearsal level - not ear bleeding but loud enough. Did not test it at full 100w on 10 level - more 50w on 1/2 vs 5 or so.

 

[7704A]

Hi
As far as I can remember one was like bedroom level - like you would play a little louder in a room by yourself, the other was like band rehearsal level - not ear bleeding but loud enough. Did not test it at full 100w on 10 level - more 50w on 1/2 vs 5 or so.

Ok great, thanks for the info!

 

[7704A]

Alright, got a somewhat better recording of both the EVMs and the V30's, though there is still a bit of string noise 'cause it's late evening. The clips are decent enough to compare to the Force 12 recording I got a while back with a comparable setup.

Treble at 10, Mids at 4, Bass at 5, Presence at 7. As is tradition, Pre-amp at 7, Master on 10. Fryette PS-100 to knock the volume down, Presence and Resonance on 0, reactive load switches set in the middle.

Worn 12S' (detuned Carvin Legacy 4x12) :


Vintage 30's (detuned Peavey XXX 4x12) :


Force 12's (detuned Peavey XXX 4x12, with mitchell donut beam blockers, gain tweaked to match other two clips) :


The mics were a two PZMs on a stereo PZM wedge, set so that they're halfway up the cone and 6 inches from the front of the wedge (to mimic ORTF stereo, mimic'ing sticking your head right against the baffle between the two speakers), with the wedge front edge parallel, or fairly so, to the slant of the cab. I ran the mics through a bus with a parametric EQ in my DAW, to flatten out the PZM's high-frequency rise. All tracks are normalized to -15.4 LUFS

Unfortunately I forgot to stick the beam blockers on the cabs, so it's not a direct comparison to the Force 12's, so I'll have to run it again later. Curious how the fresh EVMs will stack up. I think they'll be between the worn EVMs and the Force 12's.

 

[Anje]

10-15 years ago I spent lots of time testing / comparing some smaller 1x12 & 2x12 cabs trying to downsize my live rigs; that included among others some "cube" Pacific 1x12 w/ old V30 and EV equipped open & thiele Boogie 1x12.
What I got out and remember:
- Most speakers need some minimum volume to really sound and "feel" good, but EV even more than the Celestion.
- I had one EVM-12S in the lot, I don't remember being particularly impressed with it VS the other 12L and focused on the 12L VS Celestion.
- the EV sounded and especially felt much flatter, "cleaner" and "bigger" than the V30. Tighter, less compression & "bounce" under the fingers unless higher volume. Really different characters.
- I didn't like how the EV cabs were very quickly "over-powering" other Celestion cabs when mixing different types = EV are better by themselves.
- meaning that in case I need some "wet" cabs to mix with a main old school Celestion equipped "dry" cab, EV cabs are not the right option.
- one of my main rigs has been old Greenbacks + V30; in various configurations of "wet/dry" type of rigs; great combination.
- EVs are VERY heavy lol
- in the end, as my main core tone has mostly been based on vintage classic Marshall & Celestion, my main rigs have mostly been Celestion based only even when doing "wet/dry" kind of rigs. EVs are great for different sounds when I want/need that, and in that case I don't mix them with Celestion.

 

[7704A]

I had one EVM-12S in the lot, I don't remember being particularly impressed with it VS the other 12L and focused on the 12L VS Celestion.

Interesting, though that does seem to be the common sentiment.

the EV sounded and especially felt much flatter, "cleaner" and "bigger" than the V30. Tighter, less compression & "bounce" under the fingers unless higher volume. Really different characters.

Roughly my experience as well.

EVs are VERY heavy lol

No kidding. My friend has a 2x12 with 'em, and it probably weighs about as much as a 4x12.

in the end, as my main core tone has mostly been based on vintage classic Marshall & Celestion, my main rigs have mostly been Celestion based only even when doing "wet/dry" kind of rigs. EVs are great for different sounds when I want/need that, and in that case I don't mix them with Celestion.

Makes sense. EVs just won't do Celestion sounds, and vice-versa. I was listening to Led Zeppelin I the other day, and there's no way you're gonna get that papery, almost "broken" sound the guitar has with an EV.