Current used market

hellzington said:
Very cool, collectible amp and he's totally entitled to ask for whatever price he wants but the market probably won't bear anywhere near that price. I say probably because there always seems to be a few collectors out there with money to burn who pay insane prices; he might find one. But something tells me with the way the market and inflation are going, collectors like that are probably losing a lot of money on paper almost daily and are thus becoming more risk averse.

The market is slowing down big time and prices have come down a bit but if you're waiting for a return to pre-Covid prices, don't hold your breath. Those days are long gone and they're not coming back. BUT, there are more deals to be found now.
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Always hard to guess the future but the industry I work in is typically affected before the general economy is and is a good general marker of economy health in the near future. If that holds true, I’d say it’s going to be a bloodbath and precovid prices will be a real possibility. But maybe I’m wrong.
 
Later this fall/winter will be interesting between heating costs, food, Christmas debt, and interest rates. Sellers seem very reluctant to get remotely close to market price. Which would lead me to believe they either don’t need the money or are delusional. Even the good deals around me stay up forever. Curious to see how stubborn these fuckers are. I need a mesa and I’m not paying 3 grand for your red stripe combo.
 
Bxlxaxkxe said:
Always hard to guess the future but the industry I work in is typically affected before the general economy is and is a good general marker of economy health in the near future. If that holds true, I’d say it’s going to be a bloodbath and precovid prices will be a real possibility. But maybe I’m wrong.
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What industry might that be?
 
hellzington said:
Very cool, collectible amp and he's totally entitled to ask for whatever price he wants but the market probably won't bear anywhere near that price. I say probably because there always seems to be a few collectors out there with money to burn who pay insane prices; he might find one. But something tells me with the way the market and inflation are going, collectors like that are probably losing a lot of money on paper almost daily and are thus becoming more risk averse.

The market is slowing down big time and prices have come down a bit but if you're waiting for a return to pre-Covid prices, don't hold your breath. Those days are long gone and they're not coming back. BUT, there are more deals to be found now.
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Even towards the end of last year I was still seeing deals for obscure but good amps. Specific amps for specific sounds in a specific genre yadayada. The ones you can really only sell to other people in that niche.

Then suddenly this year, they’re stupidly stupidly priced. Like 200%-300% over the value of what they were being listed for last year. That’s just unfeasible. I’m guessing it’s because the gear is rare, so it doesn’t come up to often. One gets listed at a fair price, someone buys it, then 8 months later someone else lists another one for several thousand more, it sits there for awhile, and then someone else lists one for a hair under the new price. I don’t want to see that normalized. I get inflation is a thing, but come on now…

Last year, I remember thinking I was going to sell my 5150iii after Christmas and grab a VHT/Fryette UL that had been sitting on reverb. Someone grabbed it before then, so I’d figure I’d wait till another one pops up. Well one did… for $3300. Another one just popped up for $3000. I remember I was seeing them going for $800-1600ish.

I get that you don’t want to feel like you sold for less in a hot market. But this is absurd. What I worry is that in a world of high-end amps going for several thousand, we’re gonna get new people coming in seeing these prices and thinking they’re normal. Not every high end amp is supposed to end up as a rare collectors item.
 
I think used gear has reached an all-time high, I'm finding, in the majority of things I've been interested in. But, current NEW gear prices have gotten ridiculous, (and will continue going up), so most have bumped used gear based on that, I believe. Really, it's been a trickle down effect since Covid. You get a handful of idiots asking ridiculous prices for used gear, and suddenly many, many more follow suit with the mentality that that's what their item "goes for". People still confuse what things SELL for, vs. what people are asking.
 
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It’s annoying because I’d be able to occasionally find really good deals, flip it down the road as a good deal for someone else, and still make money. I got my 5150iii 50w head with a matching 112 cab used for $600. I remember seeing the heads during a more reasonable time going for $700-$900 used. I could have listed it for $800. Someone would have gotten a deal and I would have made money.

Now since stuff is so inflated, it’s all just bag holding now. Buying at these prices means someone is bound to lose money when things come down. It’s frustrating.
 
C0UNT3RP01NT said:
It’s annoying because I’d be able to occasionally find really good deals, flip it down the road as a good deal for someone else, and still make money. I got my 5150iii 50w head with a matching 112 cab used for $600. I remember seeing the heads during a more reasonable time going for $700-$900 used. I could have listed it for $800. Someone would have gotten a deal and I would have made money.

Now since stuff is so inflated, it’s all just bag holding now. Buying at these prices means someone is bound to lose money when things come down. It’s frustrating.
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I totally hear you but I think this is expectation distortion from the Covid-era market that we've been living in for the past two years.

Pre-Covid, when you resold gear, whether new or used, you usually lost some money (generally speaking). However, the market has been rising so fast in the last 2-2.5 years that it created an expectation that you will be able to buy something and not only make all your money back, but actually make profit. (And as you said, it might even be a deal for someone else!) This expectation distortion has lasted several years now, so the expectation has now fossilized and there is a new meta. In other words, people now expect that when they buy gear, they'll be able to resell it in the not-too-distant future for the same price or more, which historically has never been the case. But that is what most people now expect. So there will absolutely be a course correction there at some point.

That said, because new prices have been rising so rapidly, I don't think there will be a major decline in used prices. The market might slow down and there could be a 10-20% price reduction for people to get things sold, but I don't think we'll ever see pre-Covid prices again because the entire meta has changed. And that's not even accounting for inflation.
 
I predict the more common amps for example, like Mark 3/4/JCM 800s/5150s/Rev G Rectos will come back down a bit. But the more rare/limited number items like C+, SLOs(pre BAD), 1973 and earlier Marshalls, early Rectos, Cameron’s/vintage Marshall cabs will stay higher priced. With exception to the occasional fire sale.
 
Racerxrated said:
I predict the more common amps for example, like Mark 3/4/JCM 800s/5150s/Rev G Rectos will come back down a bit. But the more rare/limited number items like C+, SLOs(pre BAD), 1973 and earlier Marshalls, early Rectos, Cameron’s/vintage Marshall cabs will stay higher priced. With exception to the occasional fire sale.
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Agree completely, and I've also been preaching this. I think "regular" gear will see a normalization with a 20-30% price reduction over the next six months if inflation, high gas prices, bad stock market, crypto crash, etc all stay escalated through mid-2023.

I think price distortion on collectible gear is now permanent. For example, Mesa Mark IIC+'s are never going to go back down to 3k. Dual Rectifier Rev F's are not going back to $1500. Vintage Gibson Silverburst Les Paul Customs are never going back to $2000. Anything remotely collectible will not suffer the same normalization and will probably continue on an upward trajectory (albiet, more slowly as the market slows).
 
Yes, I think further correction is coming. It will be interesting to see what part of the market gets hit hardest, or if it will be overall. I remember in Spring of '09 cash was so king even with the vintage stuff. We shall see if that happens again.
 
Like others before me have said, I think price stabilization will occur, but not on collectible gear. My reasoning may sound ridiculous, but I think it’s YouTubers. While helpful at times, inflate shit like crazy. Don’t get me wrong I love my rev e rectifier. But it’s not worth as much as my wizard. Not even close.
 
I certainly hope so. Everything has been crazy for the last few years to the point where USA / Custom shop guitars have become Unobtainable for most people. It use to be easy to come across and buy used quality gear, sometimes even rare gear...
 
Bram576 said:
Like others before me have said, I think price stabilization will occur, but not on collectible gear. My reasoning may sound ridiculous, but I think it’s YouTubers. While helpful at times, inflate shit like crazy. Don’t get me wrong I love my rev e rectifier. But it’s not worth as much as my wizard. Not even close.
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While you may feel the Wizard is worth more I’d argue the E might be more valuable, because of the rarity…only 100 or so made. Wizards, you can order a new one anytime. Not cheap but available. A Mesa collector might give more than what you’d get for the Wizard.
 
Racerxrated said:
While you may feel the Wizard is worth more I’d argue the E might be more valuable, because of the rarity…only 100 or so made. Wizards, you can order a new one anytime. Not cheap but available. A Mesa collector might give more than what you’d get for the Wizard.
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Yes, very true. I guess the collectible market may be here to stay. We’ll see. It’s just nuts to me because that wizard sounds so much better. On another level.
 
Bram576 said:
Yes, very true. I guess the collectible market may be here to stay. We’ll see. It’s just nuts to me because that wizard sounds so much better. On another level.
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Collectible and classic amps are not always the best sounding amps. For example, there's a lot of not-great sounding Marshalls from the 70s and 80s where they used whatever component values they had on hand that day and the end result is kind of "meh." However, they're still valuable to collectors or enthusiasts on the market.

Another example is with vintage guitars. Hard truth to swallow: most vintage guitars don't sound or play that great. Sure, they have "mojo" (whatever that is) but they're often temperamental, hard to get the pickups balanced, and more difficult to get to stay in tune. Modern reissues/reproductions are almost always better sounding, better playing, more stable instruments. However, the vintage instruments still command very high prices because of collectors.

Best sounding =/= Most Expensive.
 
hellzington said:
Collectible and classic amps are not always the best sounding amps. For example, there's a lot of not-great sounding Marshalls from the 70s and 80s where they used whatever component values they had on hand that day and the end result is kind of "meh." However, they're still valuable to collectors or enthusiasts on the market.

Another example is with vintage guitars. Hard truth to swallow: most vintage guitars don't sound or play that great. Sure, they have "mojo" (whatever that is) but they're often temperamental, hard to get the pickups balanced, and more difficult to get to stay in tune. Modern reissues/reproductions are almost always better sounding, better playing, more stable instruments. However, the vintage instruments still command very high prices because of collectors.

Best sounding =/= Most Expensive.
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Oh, I’d tend to disagree with some of this. While I don’t own a truly vintage guitar these days, I have played a few at Dave’s guitar shop in LaCrosse and they all (50s-60s) had some pretty amazing qualities. Would I pay 20k on up for one? If I won the lottery maybe lol.
Marshalls, I’ve never played a bad or even average sounding JMP 1980 or earlier. Some better than others, my 72 Tremolo sounds so good I didn’t think twice about selling a C+ Coliseum. Also had a 67 50w Trem and it too had killer tone, not as edgy as my 72.
My experience is that vintage stuff consistently sounds and feels better than anything made recently. Every time. Had a 66 Bassman that when boosted, would wipe the floor with most any recent production amp that I’ve owned anyway. Whether or not one is willing to pay for a vintage piece is another story.
 
Bram576 said:
Yes, very true. I guess the collectible market may be here to stay. We’ll see. It’s just nuts to me because that wizard sounds so much better. On another level.
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Your Wizard is fairly uncommon in that there aren’t many 6L MCs floating around… it’s a killer amp that blows away most amps I’ve owned… but I guess anyone with a spare $5600 can get pony up for new one. Lol
 
mhenson42 said:
Your Wizard is fairly uncommon in that there aren’t many 6L MCs floating around… it’s a killer amp that blows away most amps I’ve owned… but I guess anyone with a spare $5600 can get pony up for new one. Lol
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Dude, I didn’t know you were here too! Yeah, I haven’t touched my uberschall or rev e rectifier since it’s showed up. Best amp I’ve ever played. Only problem is now I want an mtl.
 
Bram576 said:
Dude, I didn’t know you were here too! Yeah, I haven’t touched my uberschall or rev e rectifier since it’s showed up. Best amp I’ve ever played. Only problem is now I want an mtl.
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I'm here more than TGP... Stuff sells better over there though. I think I told you the problem with getting that is that you're gonna want an MTL too. :ROFLMAO:
 
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