Dar amps question

[braintheory]

So I've read on the forums a lot of great things about dar amps, but when talking to people about them who've tried Dar's (and are also super knowledgeable) they all said negative things, so I'm a bit skeptical. At Destroy All Guitars the guy there said they sound terrible and that he couldn't stand to play more than 3 notes on it and how it had a very strange voicing. At Guitarsrebellion, the guy there also said he didn't like them and that they sound very strange and have no grain to their sound unlike a typical tube amp. At Tone Merchants Mark Day said that they weren't his cup of tea because they sound synthetic (which made me think of most Engls and some other modern amps). Also, to be honest, all the youtube videos I've heard with Dar's sounded awful and somewhat like these guys described it.

What mainly appealed to me about Dar was that they are supposed to be insanely tight and aggressive. Based on the youtube videos, they did indeed sound tight, but other than that sounded really bad and like others said had a weird voicing.

I'm not by any stretch trying to shit on Dar or anything, I just wanna know the truth about these amps because I don't trust most of the threads that praise these amps so highly, since the guys at those guitar stores are very knowledgable. My biggest concern is if the amp sounds in any way artificial and let's face a lot of modern amps have this problem. So can anyone give me honest answers about Dar amps?

Also, please don't put a link to any Ola Englund videos playing Dar or other youtube videos with Dar.

 

[benduncan]

their tone is the least of your worries my friend, try reading some of the past threads on here...but since i've owned two DAR's i'll give you my two cents.

FBM-100: best extreme metal amp that i have ever played. TIGHT! LOVE the preamp filters, no boost needed. ridiculous tone shaping potential, great sounds but its also easy to get a bad one. i really liked the clean, unique for a high gainer. the noise gate was amazing. i couldn't really tell the difference between the three "metal" channels. there was no crunch channel. i wasnt able to get a good lead tone out of it. i dont use a lot of gain so i had trouble with it. if you have the gain at a lower setting it does sound artificial, for a brutal metal tone though, i would say that you wouldnt have to worry about that.

Forza quattro: best crunch tones i've ever gotten, great leads. i never tried it with a boost but i couldnt get ANY kind of useful rhythm sounds. very organic, no artificial tones to be found

im not sure what kind of sound youre after. organic leads/crunch, you'd want the forza. amazingly tight metal tones, the fbm

someday when i have some money i'm going to find the FBM that i sold and buy it back

 

[braintheory]

their tone is the least of your worries my friend, try reading some of the past threads on here...but since i've owned two DAR's i'll give you my two cents.

FBM-100: best extreme metal amp that i have ever played. TIGHT! LOVE the preamp filters, no boost needed. ridiculous tone shaping potential, great sounds but its also easy to get a bad one. i really liked the clean, unique for a high gainer. the noise gate was amazing. i couldn't really tell the difference between the three "metal" channels. there was no crunch channel. i wasnt able to get a good lead tone out of it. i dont use a lot of gain so i had trouble with it. if you have the gain at a lower setting it does sound artificial, for a brutal metal tone though, i would say that you wouldnt have to worry about that.

Forza quattro: best crunch tones i've ever gotten, great leads. i never tried it with a boost but i couldnt get ANY kind of useful rhythm sounds. very organic, no artificial tones to be found

im not sure what kind of sound youre after. organic leads/crunch, you'd want the forza. amazingly tight metal tones, the fbm

someday when i have some money i'm going to find the FBM that i sold and buy it back

That seems counterintuitive that the FBM sounds less artificial with more gain (usually it's the opposite). Also, why didn't you like the Forza for rhythm? Was it not tight enough?

Basically the sound I'm looking for is something aggressive, tight, not over compressed and most importantly raw/real/organic (not processed like most engls and other modern amps)

I also don't use a lot of gain when dialing in a metal tone because it sounds tighter, less compressed, and usually more aggressive this way. With most Engl's I would have the gain below 10 'O clock.

 

[benduncan]

I also don't use a lot of gain when dialing in a metal tone because it sounds tighter, less compressed, and usually more aggressive this way. With most Engl's I would have the gain below 10 'O clock.

sounds like we have similar philosophies when it comes to gain. i'm sitting next to an engl invader right now which happens to have its gain set to around 10 'o clock, lol. i know that you said no videos but here's a couple clips of the tone that i got out of the FBM if you'd like to hear

thrash
https://soundcloud.com/benduncan/thrash-song

old school death metal
https://soundcloud.com/benduncan/bronns ... ngry-hobos

That seems counterintuitive that the FBM sounds less artificial with more gain (usually it's the opposite).

thats true with most amps but i didnt hear it in the fbm. im not an amp builder but i think the FBM has a DSP somewhere in the signal chain and when the gain is low enough you can hear that. as you raise the gain it masks the sound and the DSP sound has less of a presence. it also seemed to get more articulate to a certain point as the gain was raised

the forza NEEDS to be boosted to get anything close to a tight metal sound. im not a booster, i just couldnt work with it. i dont know if that was my fault or the amps

 

[braintheory]

I also don't use a lot of gain when dialing in a metal tone because it sounds tighter, less compressed, and usually more aggressive this way. With most Engl's I would have the gain below 10 'O clock.

sounds like we have similar philosophies when it comes to gain. i'm sitting next to an engl invader right now which happens to have its gain set to around 10 'o clock, lol. i know that you said no videos but here's a couple clips of the tone that i got out of the FBM if you'd like to hear

thrash
https://soundcloud.com/benduncan/thrash-song

old school death metal
https://soundcloud.com/benduncan/bronns ... ngry-hobos

That seems counterintuitive that the FBM sounds less artificial with more gain (usually it's the opposite).

thats true with most amps but i didnt hear it in the fbm. im not an amp builder but i think the FBM has a DSP somewhere in the signal chain and when the gain is low enough you can hear that. as you raise the gain it masks the sound and the DSP sound has less of a presence. it also seemed to get more articulate to a certain point as the gain was raised

the forza NEEDS to be boosted to get anything close to a tight metal sound. im not a booster, i just couldnt work with it. i dont know if that was my fault or the amps

Thanks for the clips. The FBM sounds very good in the clips. I'm still very surprised to hear that the Forza isn't tight. Is it tighter than something like a triple rectifier? Also, how would the tightness of the FBM compare with Engl's or Fryette Pittbull UL?

Which amp sounds more aggressive/angry and open/organic for big power chords? Is that where the Forza might work better than the FBM? I ask this because you say the Forza is great for crunch. I also heard that the FBM is more direct sounding and in your face.

 

[Capulin Overdrive]

I have a Forza Quatro and really like it, the loop is light years better than most amps. If you can find one, give it a try. Imagine they'd be hard to get worked on if something went wrong.


From what you're saying, and the amps in your sig. I'd suggest trying a Wizard Metal, crazy good sound and playing feel.

 

[snowdog]

Plenty of DAR threads on this site, use the search function to find out more.

 

[braintheory]

I have a Forza Quatro and really like it, the loop is light years better than most amps. If you can find one, give it a try. Imagine they'd be hard to get worked on if something went wrong.


From what you're saying, and the amps in your sig. I'd suggest trying a Wizard Metal, crazy good sound and playing feel.

Do you agree with benduncan about it not being that tight? Like he said, it seems like we have similar tastes in tone, but it still really surprises me to hear that the Forza is anything but super tight. I was also interested in Wizards, but was more interested in the Modern Classic since it's supposed to be more raw, organic, and open.

 

[garey77]

Why not just get a FRYETTE?

 

[Capulin Overdrive]

I have a Forza Quatro and really like it, the loop is light years better than most amps. If you can find one, give it a try. Imagine they'd be hard to get worked on if something went wrong.


From what you're saying, and the amps in your sig. I'd suggest trying a Wizard Metal, crazy good sound and playing feel.

Do you agree with benduncan about it not being that tight? Like he said, it seems like we have similar tastes in tone, but it still really surprises me to hear that the Forza is anything but super tight. I was also interested in Wizards, but was more interested in the Modern Classic since it's supposed to be more raw, organic, and open.

Nah, I think the Forza is pretty tight. Maybe not FBM tight, but tight. I played around with the preamp tubes, so mine may behave a little better. Hopefully he'll chime in again, but I read his comment more as that it's better with a pedal, than just saying it's not tight?


I'm a crappy player, so take with a grain of salt, but Forza is just has a deferent playing feel and takes getting used to. Sometimes I think well it's not as fast or tight as the Wizard or whatever, but it's all in the feel. Like it will blast out machine gun stuff faster than I can play, but I struggle with it sometimes getting a fast gallop.

Anyways, Wizards are badass and don't scared of the Metal. All of the Wizards are raw and organic!

 

[braintheory]

Why not just get a FRYETTE?

If you look at my sig you'll see that I own a Fryette Pittbull UL and it's definitely an awesome amp, but I play my Soldano SLO and Mesa Mark III Coliseum more often. Also, while the Pittbull UL is plenty tight it's still not as tight as most Engls or Diezels or even my Mesa Mark III Coliseum. Also, while it's raw and organic by modern standards, it's still not as raw or organic as my Soldano SLO, Mesa Mark III Coliseum, Orange Rockerverb, Vintage Marshalls, and a few of others. People also HIGHLY exaggerate it's dryness! Yes it's drier than most amps, but comments comparing it to the Sahara desert is honestly one of the stupidest things I've read on forums. Don't get me wrong I love my Fryette and don't plan on selling it anytime soon, but overall I prefer my Soldano SLO and Mark III Coliseum.

 

[philnz]

I had a Tuzzia & thought it was fairly tight, probably not as tight as my UL tho.

Although not as organic sounding as a Marshall (or such type variant) I didn't consider it sterile either.
The clean channel was great with tons of headroom. When set up for crunch tones i don't think was all that to write home about. I found I got better results by using an overdrive pedal on the clean channel.
The gain channel was great for metal tho, tons of gain with great note definition. Just clean boost it with a pedal for more liquid leads.

As far trying to get a new one, ummmm.....good luck with that.
Mine had noise issues that my local tech tried in vein to fix.
Finally sent it back to DAR June 2011 & haven't seen the amp since

If you reeeeeally have to get a DAR, you're best bet is used & hope to god that it NEVER breaks down.

 

[benduncan]

Thanks for the clips. The FBM sounds very good in the clips. I'm still very surprised to hear that the Forza isn't tight. Is it tighter than something like a triple rectifier? Also, how would the tightness of the FBM compare with Engl's or Fryette Pittbull UL?

Which amp sounds more aggressive/angry and open/organic for big power chords? Is that where the Forza might work better than the FBM? I ask this because you say the Forza is great for crunch. I also heard that the FBM is more direct sounding and in your face.

i have a dual rec, compared both while boosted, the forza was a little tighter. The FBM is tighter than the pittbull and a little tighter than the engl invader that i have.

Hopefully he'll chime in again, but I read his comment more as that it's better with a pedal, than just saying it's not tight?

yep, thats what i meant to say anyway

 

[cujo]

Do not waste your money on this mother fucking their bastard. Yes I said it. Can't even get my refund I was totally fucked out of a cabinet I ordered over 2 years ago. Also took over a year to get my amp back when sent for repair. Sold it.

Go buy a Diezel with a great reputation and best amps on the planet. N if u do have a problem Peter will take care of it. They should be an example to all instument manufacturers out there.

This is no bullshit !

 

[braintheory]

Thanks for the clips. The FBM sounds very good in the clips. I'm still very surprised to hear that the Forza isn't tight. Is it tighter than something like a triple rectifier? Also, how would the tightness of the FBM compare with Engl's or Fryette Pittbull UL?

Which amp sounds more aggressive/angry and open/organic for big power chords? Is that where the Forza might work better than the FBM? I ask this because you say the Forza is great for crunch. I also heard that the FBM is more direct sounding and in your face.

i have a dual rec, compared both while boosted, the forza was a little tighter. The FBM is tighter than the pittbull and a little tighter than the engl invader that i have.

Hopefully he'll chime in again, but I read his comment more as that it's better with a pedal, than just saying it's not tight?

yep, thats what i meant to say anyway

If it's really only a little tighter than a dual rec, that indeed is not very tight. It sounds like the FBM is probably similarly tight to the Engl Powerball II (which is also tighter than the invader). If the Forza can still though sound angry/aggressive and open and organic on big powerchords than I'm still interested, unless the FBM does that type of sound even better, although the Wizard might be better for that than both Dar's. Also, I heard the FBM sounds more direct and in your face which appeals to me more and implies to me a less artificial sound.

 

[braintheory]

Do not waste your money on this mother fucking their bastard. Yes I said it. Can't even get my refund I was totally fucked out of a cabinet I ordered over 2 years ago. Also took over a year to get my amp back when sent for repair. Sold it.

Go buy a Diezel with a great reputation and best amps on the planet. N if u do have a problem Peter will take care of it. They should be an example to all instument manufacturers out there.

This is no bullshit !

But how did the Dar amps actually sound. Also, I appreciate the honesty.

 

[cujo]

They are nice amps. I'm so bitter that I don't even wanna say that. But still they ain't no Diezel !

 

[braintheory]

They are nice amps. I'm so bitter that I don't even wanna say that. But still they ain't no Diezel !

So the diezel's still sound better to your ears? (the Herbert is one of my favorite amps ever)

Does anyone else have anything to say?

 

[cujo]

Yes Herbert hands down to me is still king.

Fbm was loud n tight but to me lacked warmth.
Forza was better it had nice warmth ch3 was killer.

Herbert has power,warmth, tightness, great dynamics and it still to this day 8 yes later the tone I hear in my head.

I just bought a new peavey xxx 2 that I am really digging.

 

[braintheory]

I didn't say anything before, but the reason why I was asking about the two Dar's is because I'm about to trade for a Dar Forza and I wanted to see if it seemed like the right amp for me, but I'm still not sure. Any more info on the Forza or FBM would be very helpful.