Dark Celestion to Compliment Greenback

[McLeanAB]

Hey all...

I used to be a straight up Eminence guy, and don't get me wrong, I still LOVE my Eminence Man O' Wars in my ISP Theta Combo and Vector 2x12... But...

I recently acquired a Marshall 1960av loaded with V30's... loved it for a while, but then starting feeling it was sounding a bit flat... so I traded two of the V30's for two LOVELY 25 watt Greenbacks... not sure why I waited so long!

I'm initially thinking to swap the other two V30's out for two more Greenies, but now I'm thinking maybe a really 'dark' Celestion speaker to compliment the wonderful mids of the Greenies... a 65 watt M Creamback comes to mind (the 75 watt H's sound a little harsh on the high end)...

I used to have a couple of 2x12 cabs loaded with an Eminence Governor and Swamp Thang in one, and a Wizard and Swamp Thang in the other... each cab sounded wonderfully balanced and full and great together... I'm wondering if there is a Celestion equivalent of a Swamp Thang/Texas Heat?

I later had a 2x12 cab with two 65 watt Creambacks and felt it needed something else... I regretted getting rid of it, but had to at the time to save some money... now that I have this 4x12, I'd love to experiement... the V30's are nice, but I'm feeling (especially after being introduced to the Greenies) that they aren't my cup of tea... I have never liked the G12t-75's... So what's a dark Celestion speaker?

Any and all information is greatly appreciated!

 

[lespaul6]

I hear that the g12 65s are dark speakers, but I think they might overpower the greenbacks. Dont underestimate the power of grill cloth type... I did, and now I know that I do not like thicker grill cloth like marshall salt and pepper (basketweave) as it totally destroys my high end articulation. A 4/12 with greenbacks and that thick grill cloth is a really dark sounding cabinet to me... you might like this combo

 

[LP Freak]

G12-H30 will do the trick

 

[japetus]

I have always felt like the 75's were darker than the 65's

 

[Rex Rocker]

I'm thinking Celestion A-type.

 

[Racerxrated]

The later version 65s from 83 or so were pretty dark, by contrast the earliest 65s with the Marshall labels were bright like a GB. The WGS ET65 is more similar to the later version. Not sure about the reissue 65s, there were 40 different versions of them produced from 78-83. All sound great I'm sure. I've had 4 different cabs with them, including bass cones. They all sound great with a Marshall circuit IMO. And the ET65 gets close, I've had a few of those as well.

 

[Mr. Willy]

Lynchbacks are what you're looking for.

 

[McLeanAB]

Lynchbacks are what you're looking for.

Thanks for the replies, fellers!

Lynchbacks: I was actually thinking this as well... but didn't Mr. Scary want more definition in the mids and highs to cut through a mix?

 

[Mr. Willy]

Lynchbacks are what you're looking for.

Thanks for the replies, fellers!

Lynchbacks: I was actually thinking this as well... but didn't Mr. Scary want more definition in the mids and highs to cut through a mix?

I've got V30's, reissue greenbacks, and Lynchbacks in my cabs. The reissue greenbacks have more highs and cut than the Lynchbacks. They're similar to the greenbacks in the mids, but they are warmer on the top end and have a deeper bottom end. A primary thing you should consider in whatever speaker you go with, Celestion recommends keeping speakers within 2db difference when mixing. Otherwise, one speaker might dominate the other. Reissue greenbacks are 98db and Lynchbacks are 97db. They'd mix well, IMHO.

To slightly amend what I said above, saying the greenbacks have more 'cut' than the Lynchbacks isn't the most accurate way to describe the sound. The greenbacks are more raw and crunchy whereas the Lynchbacks are smoother and more "refined." Hope this helps. It's kinda tricky explaining the differences in sound.

 

[Mr. Willy]

Lynchbacks are what you're looking for.

Thanks for the replies, fellers!

Lynchbacks: I was actually thinking this as well... but didn't Mr. Scary want more definition in the mids and highs to cut through a mix?

Just thought of this, too - I read somewhere that when Lynch was working with Celestion on the Lynchback, the sound he was going for was when he used to mix two cabs together in the studio. One cab was a Marshall cab (late 60's or 70's, can't recall exactly). There are many versions of the greenback, and I'm not sure exactly which greenbacks were in the Marshall cab. They could have been Blackbacks. The second cab was a Hiwatt with Fanes. Lynch said he liked the crunch and mids of the greenbacks mixed with the high end clarity of the Fanes. I don't know if I'd call the Lychbacks dark, but they're definitely smoother and warmer on the top end. In that regard, you could say that they're darker than both the reissue greenback and the V30. For reference, the A Type Celestion is a speaker I would consider dark.

 

[McLeanAB]

That is a most detailed and excellent description... thank you... exactly what I was hoping for... the 65 M Creambacks seemed very 'warm' to me, not necessarily 'dark.' (I know, very subjective descriptions). But the way you described the Lynchbacks sounds very enticing...

I can't really tell if the V30's are overpowering my Greenies, but I noticed a huge difference when I threw in the Greenies... I'll keep scrounging for some Lynchbacks and try them out...

Thanks for the tips!

 

[Mr. Willy]

That is a most detailed and excellent description... thank you... exactly what I was hoping for... the 65 M Creambacks seemed very 'warm' to me, not necessarily 'dark.' (I know, very subjective descriptions). But the way you described the Lynchbacks sounds very enticing...

I can't really tell if the V30's are overpowering my Greenies, but I noticed a huge difference when I threw in the Greenies... I'll keep scrounging for some Lynchbacks and try them out...

Thanks for the tips!

Cool man. I hope I'm helping! Fwiw, I've got 2 reissue Greenbacks and 2 V30's in a Bogner 4x12. The Greenbacks are on top. I don't hear them overpowering the V30's either, but that may be because the Greenbacks are closer to my ears. It's odd though. About ten years ago I ran two 4x12's with a 100 watt head, and the V30 cab was noticeably louder than the Greenback cab. So even with the advice I gave about the 2db thing and mixing the greenbacks an V30's in the same cab, it just goes to show that you really never know wether or not something will work for you unless you try it.

To be as clear as possible, when I'm referring to greenbacks, I'm talking about the reissues. Those are different than the Heritage Greenbacks, which there are three versions of. They all sound a little different. The 20 watt Heritage (the exact same thing as the EVH speakers) is 96db. Both the 55hz and 75hz are 100db.

 

[McLeanAB]

Cool man. I hope I'm helping! Fwiw, I've got 2 reissue Greenbacks and 2 V30's in a Bogner 4x12. The Greenbacks are on top. I don't hear them overpowering the V30's either, but that may be because the Greenbacks are closer to my ears. It's odd though. About ten years ago I ran two 4x12's with a 100 watt head, and the V30 cab was noticeably louder than the Greenback cab. So even with the advice I gave about the 2db thing and mixing the greenbacks an V30's in the same cab, it just goes to show that you really never know wether or not something will work for you unless you try it.

To be as clear as possible, when I'm referring to greenbacks, I'm talking about the reissues. Those are different than the Heritage Greenbacks, which there are three versions of. They all sound a little different. The 20 watt Heritage (the exact same thing as the EVH speakers) is 96db. Both the 55hz and 75hz are 100db.

Yeah, mine are the 25 watt Greenies... not sure if they are UK or Chinese... didn't really look.... definitely not the Heritage.... not sure if it's a reissue... but they sound great.

Now I'm on the hunt for some Lynchbacks!!!

 

[blackie13]

sorry man but you use 2 16ohm and 2 8 ohm speakers in a 4x12...?????????

 

[McLeanAB]

sorry man but you use 2 16ohm and 2 8 ohm speakers in a 4x12...?????????

I'd like NOT to do that, but I'm running it with an ISP Stealth power amp which Buck at ISP told me would be fine down to 1 ohm or so... another reason I'd like to swap out the V30's for, now I'm thinking, two 8 ohm Lynchbacks.

 

[sahlomonic]

Lynchbacks are what you're looking for.

Thanks for the replies, fellers!

Lynchbacks: I was actually thinking this as well... but didn't Mr. Scary want more definition in the mids and highs to cut through a mix?

I second Lynchbacks. FANTASTIC speakers. I keep saying this and I still stand by it: Lynchbacks are like a blend of Greenbacks and V30s. Sort of a more modern sounding Greenback - but a bit smoother and not as raw. Maybe they will get more aggressive as they age and break in more, I don't know. Deeper, punchier low end, broader mid range that isn't spikey like V30s, and still a good high end like Greenbacks. I've been rocking them for a couple years now, and I still have a cab with Greenbacks and a cab with V30s that I'm constantly comparing against each other.

 

[sg guy]

-add these combo's to your two greenbacks-

-55hz greenbacks-(a pair of 16ohm or a single 8ohm & an empty hole)-

-1 V-30-(16ohm + another greenback 55 or 75hz)-(1 8ohm 55hz or V-30 & 1 empty speaker hole)-

 

[McLeanAB]

Lynchbacks are what you're looking for.

Thanks for the replies, fellers!

Lynchbacks: I was actually thinking this as well... but didn't Mr. Scary want more definition in the mids and highs to cut through a mix?

I second Lynchbacks. FANTASTIC speakers. I keep saying this and I still stand by it: Lynchbacks are like a blend of Greenbacks and V30s. Sort of a more modern sounding Greenback - but a bit smoother and not as raw. Maybe they will get more aggressive as they age and break in more, I don't know. Deeper, punchier low end, broader mid range that isn't spikey like V30s, and still a good high end like Greenbacks. I've been rocking them for a couple years now, and I still have a cab with Greenbacks and a cab with V30s that I'm constantly comparing against each other.

Awesome... I love this... I'm TOTALLY going to find some Lynchbacks... they seem to be scarce on forums and craigslist... found a guy FAR from me on CL that will cut me a great deal, but wants cash because he has no use for the two V30's I have... One day soon!!!!

 

[thunda]

Mesa MC90 Black Shadow? Just a thought...

 

[McLeanAB]

Mesa MC90 Black Shadow? Just a thought...

Aren't the Black Shadows 'just' a darker version of the V30's? What I'm finding with the V30's that I don't care for so much is it's almost scooped in the mids... especially compared to the sweet 'honk' of the Greenbacks...

I don't know much about the Black Shadows... I'll have to look 'em up!