Diezel Hagen 4 Cable Method AxeFX

[skippystz]

Hey there!

Has anyone on here had any luck with any Diezel amps wired to a processor using 4CM? I'd love to get an Axe FX hooked up to my Hagen but I've read lots of horror stories about hum, ground noise, tone suck, etc. What's the deal? It seems to me that a processor costing ~3k should work properly. Is this unit just terribly overpriced? I'm currently running a digitech GSP1101 for pre-amp stombbox effects(drive, whammy, delay) and a G-Major 2 for loop FX(harmonizer, reverb, delay) and it sounds pretty killer, but I'd like the Fractal to be able to replace both of those as well as add some new amp models, FX, etc.

Thanks!

 

[Influenza]

All I can say, is that all external preamps I routed into the return of a Hagen and recently Herbert sounded incredible. As good as the best power amps money buy and better than the power amps you can buy these days.

 

[Peter Diezel]

Please let me add that the stories are concerning every amp.
It´s not Diezel related.

Thanks

 

[skippystz]

Thanks! I know the problem is not Diezel related, but certain people with certain models seem to be having problems and others aren't, so the 4CM problem seems to be amp-specific. In other words some amps take the 4CM well and others just don't work well at all. I was hoping the Hagen would work well with the AxeFX

 

[cardinal]

I think it's more related to the type of loop being used and the quality of the design. Diezels have top notch loops and offer both parallel and series loops, so if it's possible to get the Axe working well in 4CM, it's possible with the Hagen. But even with the best loops, it's tricky to get it right.

 

[Peter Diezel]

It also depends on the inside grounding of the amp circuit.
If the amp itself is free of ground issues it doesn´t mean
it works well with external units.

 

[scruffydoo]

My Hagen is due to arrive in a few days so I can test it and report back if you like, the issue is with output 2 on the Axe and can affect certain high gain amps (that's from the horses mouth), Fractal can and will mod this for you if you like, to be fair it's not a fault it's designed this way, there's a big thread on this on the FAS forum (if you got an hour spare )

 

[skippystz]

lol why would they design it to be hissy with amps in 4CM? makes no sense to me.

Peter - I just have one more quick question. If I have, say, a G-Major 2 in the serial loop, and an external preamp feeding the return of the other switchable serial loop, would i run into problems going through the external preamp since there's a return going into the switchable loop and a "dead" return also coming from the G-Major in the other loop?

Thanks!

 

[slyvren]

lol why would they design it to be hissy with amps in 4CM? makes no sense to me.

Peter - I just have one more quick question. If I have, say, a G-Major 2 in the serial loop, and an external preamp feeding the return of the other switchable serial loop, would i run into problems going through the external preamp since there's a return going into the switchable loop and a "dead" return also coming from the G-Major in the other loop?

Thanks!

My understanding is that the switchable loop is first in the series.. Meaning the external preamp should actually feed your Gmajor 2's input Thus the GMajor 2's return wouldn't be dead.

 

[King Crimson]

Hey there!

Is this unit just terribly overpriced?
Thanks!

You took the words right out of the mouths of countless rack efx gear aficionados.

 

[King Crimson]

All I can say, is that all external preamps I routed into the return of a Hagen and recently Herbert sounded incredible. As good as the best power amps money buy and better than the power amps you can buy these days.

I hope you are not speaking of sounding better than Herbert on its own by using another preamp! Otherwise get back on the turnip truck…

 

[King Crimson]

Please let me add that the stories are concerning every amp.
It´s not Diezel related.

Thanks

Papa, nice avatar - you're a proud Father.

Here's my Father holding my soon to be fret hand at 45 minutes old.

 

[scruffydoo]

Hey there!

Is this unit just terribly overpriced?
Thanks!

You took the words right out of the mouths of countless rack efx gear aficionados.

if your just going to use it just for FX then yes it's probably not worth it, but to be fair that's only about 20% of what it does

 

[elfredoo]

ground loops can occur when connecting any two outlet power based devices. it has nothing to do with quality. BUT some (fx) companies implement a user friendly interface to lift ground (kemper is most exemplary) and some do not (tc's g-system has many problems with ground loops in 4cm)...

and there's another problem with high gain amps and 4cm, since every little noise induced into the sound before the high gain preamp gets highly amplified... that's why you hear those noises much louder when using 4cm than when using 2cm (here the noise would only be induced after the preamp).

if you have any ground issues in 4cm and need a quick fix i can highly recommend the ebtech hum eliminator (http://www.ebtechaudio.com/hedes.html) placed between fx 1st dsp and amp in and additionally between fx 2nd dsp and amp return (see: http://forum.tcelectronic.com/viewtopic.php?id=1913).

 

[xprophet]

I am attempting to use the 4CH method with my brand new Herbert Mark II (which is the best sounding, most deliciously wicked piece of madness I have ever encountered) with the Axe-Fx II and a Marshall Malmsteen. There is a modification that Fractal can perform (gratis) that eliminates the hiss issue. The ground problem can be treated effectively with the humbuster cables and the ebtech hum eliminator. My Axe-Fx II is scheduled to be delivered back to me this week. I will let you know how it sounds. Previously, I was able to manage the noise. I utilized the parallel loop because I wanted more of the Herbert and just a bit of "wetness" through the Marshall cab. It sounded spectacular. The series loop also sounded good. Peter Diezel and Brad (King Guita) busted ass to make me happy. They are the best I have ever had the pleasure to have worked with.

 

[DvE]

I tried to use the 4CM with my Herbert and a G-System. Sold it after 2 weeks because althoug I could get rid of the hum, it took away the brutal punch I love my Herbert for. Seriously, I dont get it why a company which creates such great high-tech-unit is not able to build a true bypass when everythin is turned off

 

[elfredoo]

why didn't you switch the loop on the herbert off when going brutal?

 

[DvE]

Because in 4CM it the G-System still sucked tone when being set to "bypass".
It was not the loop that took away punch and magic in tone but the AD/DA-conversion that was goin on in front of the amp.

 

[elfredoo]

ah ok, and 2cm was no alternative?

 

[DvE]

Since I only needed effects for clean and solo, but play lead&rhythm 90% of the time it could not justify the price for me to make further compromises.
Instead I bought some true-bypass-stuff (true-bypass-wha-pedal -> very cool!, lehle dloop) and saved some money ;-)