DIEZEL HAGEN / HERBERT / VH-4 or EINSTEIN

[MADFULL]

Hi to everyone , i'm a new user , i found your forum on the web via google .
Let me introduce me , i'm David , i'm 30 years old , i'm from Europe ( BELGIUM ) .
I m a guitar player , i play around 10 years ago ( sorry for my poor english , i'm gonna try to do my best and using the goods words ) .

This is my problem , i bought a Diezel Herbert last week , i tried it around 2 days , at the end i decided to ship it back on the shop and have my money back , the reason ... great amp , clean and crunch sound was awesome but the Lead sound to much Heavy not tight enough , even with the Mid cut , the bass strings ( E ) were sounded to much Heavy .

But i want a Diezel , i read and heard and watched a lot of video on You tube , and now i hesitate between the Hagen and the VH-4 .
I can ' t try them on store , because i'm far away from the store where i buy it , it's in the Center of germany , so i have to order it less trying it !

I need to be sure now , i 'm playing a lot of ( Hendrix , Nirvana , Smashing pumpkins , Led Zeppelin , Metallica ... very versatile style , i'm not confined on one style , i like Heavy , Metal , Blues , Jazz ........ )
So , what , iam asking it on the users , owners who have the both ( Hagen and VH-4 ) what can you say about my request , at my idea the Hagen is sound much tighter than the VH-4 , it's a headache because i have to make the good choice now , i had the luck to ship and had my money back for the Herbie , but now they told me , i have to make the good choice . I need the more versatile with modern and vintage sound , i mean i want to do all with mine future Amp .

I tried so much ( Mashall , Peavey , Line 6 Spider IV ==== > i really appreciate it , Mesa boogie , Fender ..... ) i'm tired and sick now because i never found the sound that i really need , but i know now with Diezel i can reach it for closer .

I wish you can help me guys , thanks for all you did on these forum , it awesome .

I saw these video :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2S0Ty6Ca3o

 

[RaulTx]

Welcome to the forum!

I would say, imho, that this video does not make a proper comparison between both amps (but I appreciate a lot the great work that Reza makes with his videos!). On that video the Hagen is EQed way different to the VH4 (Reza says it on his comments), and does not make justice to the Hagen. But that's just my opinion

I own both amps, and I would say that if you want a more traditional (90s metal) and tight sound, go for the VH4. If you want a more versatile, open/organic and a bit more modern vibe-d amp, go for the Hagen.

With the Hagen you will find something between the Herbert and the VH4. Cleans are just awesome, very chime-y. The 2nd channel goes from bluesy to crunchy hard rock, very ooopen. The third channel can get very similar to the vh4, but a bit more open and organic (and not as tight). In the fourth channel you can find a very clear and articulate lead channel (it's way fun to play it!! ).

You cannot make a bad choice, don't worry

 

[Peter Diezel]

Welcome to the forum

 

[MADFULL]

Welcome to the forum!

I would say, imho, that this video does not make a proper comparison between both amps (but I appreciate a lot the great work that Reza makes with his videos!). On that video the Hagen is EQed way different to the VH4 (Reza says it on his comments), and does not make justice to the Hagen. But that's just my opinion

I own both amps, and I would say that if you want a more traditional (90s metal) and tight sound, go for the VH4. If you want a more versatile, open/organic and a bit more modern vibe-d amp, go for the Hagen.

With the Hagen you will find something between the Herbert and the VH4. Cleans are just awesome, very chime-y. The 2nd channel goes from bluesy to crunchy hard rock, very ooopen. The third channel can get very similar to the vh4, but a bit more open and organic (and not as tight). In the fourth channel you can find a very clear and articulate lead channel (it's way fun to play it!! ).

You cannot make a bad choice, don't worry

Thanks a lot man , do you think the hagen is a VH-4 in best , or they are different i mean can i have the sound of an Hagen with the Vh-4 and can i have the Vh-4 sound with the Hagen , i know my question is weird but i try to find the best answers . Regards sincerly

And what about the channels of the VH-4 Clean ? Crunch ? Lead ? How are they sounding on style i mean

 

[MADFULL]

Welcome to the forum

Thanks

 

[RaulTx]

Thanks a lot man , do you think the hagen is a VH-4 in best , or they are different i mean can i have the sound of an Hagen with the Vh-4 and can i have the Vh-4 sound with the Hagen , i know my question is weird but i try to find the best answers . Regards sincerly

And what about the channels of the VH-4 Clean ? Crunch ? Lead ? How are they sounding on style i mean

Well, I suppose that with the Hagen you can get something very near to the VH4, but they are a bit different.

I'm curious, what did you not like from the Herbert? I do not understand it well from your first post. And maybe it's the answer for your decision.

 

[tripstan]

Don't be affraid of the Einstein, the 100 watter is a beast I use it for just about all styles (R&B type stuff to new metal/modern rock). The mode mod on channel 1 is key for live playing. I think of it as kind a poor mans version of the VH4/Hagen thing. Same great Diezel sound in a different format/package. But if you have the cash why not get the big boy and really out!

 

[MADFULL]

Thanks a lot man , do you think the hagen is a VH-4 in best , or they are different i mean can i have the sound of an Hagen with the Vh-4 and can i have the Vh-4 sound with the Hagen , i know my question is weird but i try to find the best answers . Regards sincerly

And what about the channels of the VH-4 Clean ? Crunch ? Lead ? How are they sounding on style i mean

Well, I suppose that with the Hagen you can get something very near to the VH4, but they are a bit different.

I'm curious, what did you not like from the Herbert? I do not understand it well from your first post. And maybe it's the answer for your decision.

Herbie was too Heavy , too loud ... the channel three is sounding very bass too thick not enough tight at my taste

 

[brickford]

Try a VH4

Hagen is a middle of the road between the Herbie and the VH4
Dont try and buy an amp to sound like another.. a VH4 doesnt sound, feel like a Herbie and vice versa and a Hagen sounds like a combination of the two but more with its own thing going on, so don't think its like a better version of VH4 or anything

If its tightness you want then a VH4 is what you want.

but if you can get to a Diezel dealer and try out the entire range, do so! as all amps are equal in their own right and all have their thing going on.

There is no "better" or "more" or what ever , just a matter of preference!

 

[MADFULL]

Try a VH4

Hagen is a middle of the road between the Herbie and the VH4
Dont try and buy an amp to sound like another.. a VH4 doesnt sound, feel like a Herbie and vice versa and a Hagen sounds like a combination of the two but more with its own thing going on, so don't think its like a better version of VH4 or anything

If its tightness you want then a VH4 is what you want.

but if you can get to a Diezel dealer and try out the entire range, do so! as all amps are equal in their own right and all have their thing going on.

There is no "better" or "more" or what ever , just a matter of preference!

Ok i have to take a decision i think my heart say : go for VH-4 but i fear to regret , and if the Hagen sound better !!!!!!!!!!!

 

[brickford]

Dude... try before you buy is best way to go!

As the VH4 could very well feel or sound TOO tight for you! lol

Not much help am i... lol

 

[Ventura]

Welcome!!!

Diezel makes outstanding amps that are the best at what they do. They're unique, beautiful, amazingly engineered, and incredibly voiced. They are ALL very different from the other manufacturers' offerings out there. Diezel has a signature tone that's prevalent in all its amps, to some degree or another. I'd highly suggest you try before you buy, but here's the lowdown as best as I can put it:

Schmidt: Vintage voiced, with amazing clean, and can get this awesome break up and saturation, but by no means a metal amp. Hard to compare to anything else out there, but think of it as an old-school clean/gritty rocker with modern engineering.

Einstein: Probably the most underrated amp in the Diezel lineage. It can do SO much and do it well. I love Einsteins - they can go clean, crisp, bluesy (amazingly well), rockin' and even heavy without any problem. If you want to get into Diezels and play it safe? This is the amp to get! It may just end up being a keeper for life.

VH4: The signature Diezel amp and Diezel signature tone most prevalent on Ch.3 - but the other 3 channels are all very functional. This amp is found in many studios as a go-to fixture due to its versatility and uniqueness. Takes FX super well. On its own, it's incredibly tight and surgical and percussive. Outrageous amp, and the masses are divided, you'll either love it, or loathe it. There's very little in between with the VH4.

Herbert: Monster amp with an additional 2 power tubes churning out upwards of 180W of power. Similar to the VH4 in one aspect and that's the -/+ mid cut switch which turns Ch.2 into its signature channel. Terrific cleans and grit and definitely a huge bottom end aggressive metal charger when hammered hard. Is notorious for not 'cutting' as well in the mix in live situations.

Hagen: The newest amp in the Diezel repertoire. Also my favorite but that's neither here nor there... It's a 4 channel amp with gobs of power and a very refined level of feel and engineering. it can be super tight, and it can be loose and musical. Also has a brand new clean channel that is outrageously awesome (Ch.1) Overall, I find this amp to be a masterpiece. All 4 channels are incredible and highly usable. And while the Einstein has its thing (very versatile as well) and the VH4 and Herbert have their signature channels, I'd say the Hagen has signature written all over all 4 channels - which is pretty awesome.

But ya have to figure out which is running your palette of tones for it to work for you.

Cheers,
Mo

 

[MADFULL]

I understand that the Vh-4 and Hagen were different but , is it possible to have a Closer Vh-4 sound with the hagen ?

For me because i know the way i play the best is the versatilities amp , so if the hagen is between the Vh-4 and Herbert it's great no ! ?

I'm living around 300 km from the Germany and i have no car , i can not test it directly .

For you guys the owners of both , lets play a question game , imagine you have to take one with you on a island , but just one , wich one you gonna take and for what meanings ?

 

[shadow070]

id say einstein

Im a Herbert user. Diezel amps are different. I needed time with my herbert. What youre looking for is channel 2 off the Herbert. Channel 3 is amazing. Fot this sound, open op youre channel volume(2/3 o'clock), Gain on 10 o'clock and the rst to youre liking. I even use Channel 3 gain at 9 o'clock sometimes but now a days i turn my volume knob down, less heavy but imense sustaine and open sounding.

Now i now my Herbert and its THE amp for me

 

[jswevers]

Dear Madful,

I own a VH4 and live in Belgium, Hoegaarden. So if you are interested you can come to my place and try out the VH4.
Also, in the Leo Caerts Music shop in Leuven there is a Einstein head (50W) you can try.

Regards,

Jan

 

[elfredoo]

there are more than 1 shop in germany with 30 days money back... and even more with 14 days money back.get the hagen and try and compare it with jswevers vh4. but remember that the cab is also a key influence for the sound. and if only the lowest e string is too loud/bassy try adjusting the pickup

 

[MADFULL]

Dear Madful,

I own a VH4 and live in Belgium, Hoegaarden. So if you are interested you can come to my place and try out the VH4.
Also, in the Leo Caerts Music shop in Leuven there is a Einstein head (50W) you can try.

Regards,

Jan

Dank u weel Jan

Ce qui me laisse perplexe , d'ou mon hésitation , j'ai peur que le Hagen ait un meilleur son que le VH-4 c'est vraiment pénible , car je n'ai pas été satisfait avec le VH-4 .
Que penses tu du son Vh-4 à coté du Hagen ?

Et merci pour l'invitation

 

[MADFULL]

there are more than 1 shop in germany with 30 days money back... and even more with 14 days money back.get the hagen and try and compare it with jswevers vh4. but remember that the cab is also a key influence for the sound. and if only the lowest e string is too loud/bassy try adjusting the pickup

Yes but it's an headache , to ship it back , to wait money ...
I use a Marshall 4 x 12 " 1960 Standard with celestion

 

[brickford]

For you guys the owners of both , lets play a question game , imagine you have to take one with you on a island , but just one , which one you gonna take and for what meanings ?

Oh you want to play the Sophie's choice game now eh!

 

[C-4]

I am by no means trying to stir up trouble, nor am I telling anyone how to adjust an amp.
I have owned the VH4, Herbert, Schmidt, and Einstein. I am not, by any stretch of the imagination, a "metal" player. I have been hired for years to play commercial music.

I had no trouble getting from any of the Diezels, a wonderful, and perfectly fitting sound for any style of music I was called on to play. For me, it was just getting to know the amp.
I didn't have to play it for any period of time to know it was the amp I wanted, but each model offers something different, and yet similar to other Diezels as well.

Before going through a lot of time, and euros in shipping, etc., might I suggest that you consider spending the euros and travel to where you have the opportunity to audition each Diezel amp you are interested in. While it may seem as though you are spending euros needlessly, in the end, your mind will have made the decision based on trying the actual amps, and not by trial and error.

If I lived as close to Bad Steban as you do, I would have gone there every time I wanted to try out a new model of Diezel amp. Worst case senerio is that you could, at least, visit a Diezel dealer, either in Germany, or Belgium, to try a Diezel amp. What you spent shipping it back might have come close to paying for your travel time already.

Best of luck. Don't be discouraged. There is no wrong choice with a Diezel amp....just a different choice. Enjoy the hunt.

Stephen