Diezel Herbert Mk3 vs Friedman JJ-100

  • Thread starter Thread starter Veritas0Aequitas
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The amp you want & like, to get the job done, live (and home) is the Mesa Boogie Mark V.
Second channel, Mark 1 mode is for leads.
Third channel, extreme mode is for heavy rhythms.
Channel One, clean mode is for your clean passages. Or fat mode for your fender & strat blues style clean.
It got through the mix perfectly.
No recto can touch it.
Speaking from experience.
 
I found that the Mark IV destroyed the V in every way when I compared them. The V was very flat/sterile at low/medium volumes. Better super loud but unless you’re at an outdoor event, no chance to wind it up like that. And comparing it to a Recto? Maybe the 3 channel Rectos but a G/F Triple it’s no contest vs a V. Hell, my Triple is so freaking good I run my C+ Coliseum with it, and the F stays right there with it. Equal clarity and the tonal characteristics are very close. The Coliseum will out-thump it, but that’s to be expected with 150w vs 180w.
 
Here’s another suggestion that will give you better cleans than any amp mentioned here..get yourself a vintage Fender Bassman. Stack 2 pedals for your dirt, and switch them off for cleans. If you need a loop a tech can put one in for you. Those old Fenders have killer tone; at most a blackface will run 1500 and a late 60s drip edge will be 7-800. They have a metric ton of low end grunt….great tones to be had from them.
 
Nothing destroys anything.
Different amps.
V is the evolution, more modern if you will. Also tighter with more options to trail YOUR sound where you want it. Change the v4 and v6 or v7 with some AT7 preamp tubes, give it some volume and let it rip.
IV is old-school mark sound, also very smooth and inconsistent. I found it uninspiring also. Only Metallica and shit.
As far as tightness goes, a recto will never get there, no matter what. Maybe with a Fortin 33-like pedal, will cover a lot of ground but again, no Mark- like. It's a different beast all together. Recto is for filling the band's sound, not cutting through. Next to a guy with a good ol' modded Marshall & a LP, you don't exist.
Anyway, apples vs oranges.
Op can try both and keep what he likes more. No problem
 
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LPMojoGL said:
I saw a band in a small club, with 2 guitarists, several years back, right after the Mark V had come out. One guitarist's Line 6 combo amp surprisingly sounded better to me than the other's MkV thru a vertical 2x12. I remember being kinda confused by that. Lol
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I was a dedicated Mark IV guy for a lot of years. I love that amp and always will! I've owned a IIC+ too. It sounded great but I think I am in the minority as I like the IV better. Just more versatile (my opinion). I was so stoked when the V was announced. I made a huge mistake and sold my IV to fund the V as it was touted to be the "be all, end all" of Mark amps. I was severely disappointed! I thought the initial run of Mark V amps sounded plastic and boxy. In fact, it just didn't sound big. I had a really difficult time mic'ing and recording that amp. I sold it after a month of tweaking endlessly. Just wasn't for me. I think Mesa has done some work since the initial run with a few different revisions. The current Mark V is better than the initial one. If I ever buy another Mark series amp I will just hold out for a IV or grab one of the JP-2C.
 
Christos rock said:
Nothing destroys anything.
Different amps.
V is the evolution, more modern if you will. Also tighter with more options to trail YOUR sound where you want it. Change the v4 and v6 or v7 with some AT7 preamp tubes, give it some volume and let it rip.
IV is old-school mark sound, also very smooth and inconsistent. I found it uninspiring also. Only Metallica and shit.
As far as tightness goes, a recto will never get there, no matter what. Maybe with a Fortin 33-like pedal, will cover a lot of ground but again, no Mark- like. It's a different beast all together. Recto is for filling the band's sound, not cutting through. Next to a guy with a good ol' modded Marshall & a LP, you don't exist.
Anyway, apples vs oranges.
Op can try both and keep what he likes more. No problem
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You are correct. It’s just opinions…of course your “no Recto can touch it” is your opinion, too.
 
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Racerxrated said:
I found that the Mark IV destroyed the V in every way when I compared them. The V was very flat/sterile at low/medium volumes.
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I will admit my favorite channel on the Mark V was probably the Mark IV mode, but you can get some seriously great sounds at low volumes on any channel by switching it to the 10W power mode. I haven't compared the Mark IV and V directly.
 
Racerxrated said:
You are correct. It’s just opinions…of course your “no Recto can touch it” is your opinion, too.
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Of course it is. Comparing same wattage amps that is. My "no recto can touch it" in terms of tightness, fast picking response and cut through the mix, after my personal experience within a band context, it's a fact.
It is a general consensus though, that a mark is tighter and cut through the mix better than a recto. Is it not?

Take the Mark's V FX send out to the fx return of your coliseum and you have a fair comparison between the two. Do the same with a triple recto using the extreme mode on the V and there you go.
That would be interesting. If you ever do that, please share.
 
Christos rock said:
Of course it is. Comparing same wattage amps that is. My "no recto can touch it" in terms of tightness, fast picking response and cut through the mix, after my personal experience within a band context, it's a fact.
It is a general consensus though, that a mark is tighter and cut through the mix better than a recto. Is it not?

Take the Mark's V FX send out to the fx return of your coliseum and you have a fair comparison between the two. Do the same with a triple recto using the extreme mode on the V and there you go.
That would be interesting. If you ever do that, please share.
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They both cut through the mix fine if you set them right. No one amp is better than the other, just different. As far as tightness, yes a V can get tighter than a recto, but you can boost a recto and it'll be as tight as any amp needs to be.
 
anomaly said:
They both cut through the mix fine if you set them right. No one amp is better than the other, just different. As far as tightness, yes a V can get tighter than a recto, but you can boost a recto and it'll be as tight as any amp needs to be.
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This. I would agree about the tightness going to the Mark; but I’ll disagree with the cut. Rectos are known for their low mid content; but I don’t sense that as much as I do with my C+s that I’ve owned. When setting the Mark to cut more I have to boost it with a pedal to optimize it in a band setting…unless I want to bump the 750 then it’s honk city. Not so with the Triples I’ve owned. They seem to have more upper mid bark than any of the Marks.
 
anomaly said:
They both cut through the mix fine if you set them right. No one amp is better than the other, just different. As far as tightness, yes a V can get tighter than a recto, but you can boost a recto and it'll be as tight as any amp needs to be.
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It seems we're missing the point here.
Anyway, no need to hijack the OP's thread.
I insist that a Mark V will fulfill his needs.
Maybe take a look at the H&K Triamp mk3 as well. Expensive but great.
If you really dig the Diezel sound, I suggest you go with the Hagen model. Very open and organic sound for a Diezel.
 
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The marks will be inherently tighter, less saggy than those Recto's (except the Badlander's, which are very tight), but like others said the Recto boosted should be tight enough for most situations and doesn't seem like the OP necessarily even needs the tightest tones out there and might possibly even do fine with the Recto unboosted. I think both marks and recto's can cut fine with a good boost and the right speakers, but all things being equal, those Marshall's are hard to compete against in cutting through. I've not tried it yet in a mix, but I predict my old SLO or Schroeder will be the most cutting amps I've got. I gotta try to confirm, but I rarely seem to predict them wrong anymore

The Mark V was my main amp for a while (a long time ago now). I felt it was a jack of all trades, master of none kind of amp. Can do almost anything very well, but won't get tones that are truly in that magical/exceptional category, which for my needs is not an amp worth keeping, but ymmv. Definitely a very practical amp
 
Racerxrated said:
Here’s another suggestion that will give you better cleans than any amp mentioned here..get yourself a vintage Fender Bassman. Stack 2 pedals for your dirt, and switch them off for cleans. If you need a loop a tech can put one in for you. Those old Fenders have killer tone; at most a blackface will run 1500 and a late 60s drip edge will be 7-800. They have a metric ton of low end grunt….great tones to be had from them.
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My only slight disagreement here is that I like the cleans on the Naylor even more. Very different flavors though of course. It's a specific type of clean that I didn't actually like much at first, but after my friend's last re-amping, it was both of our 2nd favorite and most used cleans of everything I've got only behind my '67 Tremolo 50. Schroeder would've been #1, but didn't have it yet at the time. I've got a '64 Fender Vibroverb, which IMO is the king of blackfaces if you want lush, beautiful cleans (not good for anything though imo). It's like the IIC+ vs other Mark's with blackfaces, the sweet spot for that, and while it's also one of my favorite cleans for sure, I would rank the Naylor and '67 even higher and those amps obviously are also amazing for other stuff, but they're all I think best in their class for great cleans. The '63 Vox AC30 Top Boost is also one of the very best clean amps imo
 
Bad.Seed said:
OP. Not sure where you're located, but I have most of the amps being discussed in this thread here at my disposal. If you're within driving distance, you're welcome to come out and put a couple through their paces.

I think everyone here has done a good job at describing the differences and characteristics of each amp.

Friedman - Refined, polished Marshall tones. I own the 2016 BE100, Runt 50 and Butterslax. All 3 are fairly smooth amps. Like your ideal recorded Marshall tone vs an actual raw and roaring Marshall.

Diezel Herbert - I own the MKI and can't speak on the others, but these are compressed, saturated, liquid feeling chug machines.....in the best way. They will definitely have a hard time cutting through, depending on the situation. The right speaker, pickup and boost compliment and settings will get you there, fairly easily though, and there are some tricks to gettings the right frequencies out of the amp for live situations.

Mark III - Raw, Tight, tricky to dial in but should cut like a knife and punch you in the gut once you get it figured out. Boost it up front and play with the gains to really figure out your saturation. It's mostly a dry amp but can get fairly liquid feeling with the right settings.

Badlander - it is what they say it is. A modernized, rectifier inspired amp that's meant to be more tight and open than the older Rectifiers. Some love it, some hate it. I love it, but it's also a situational amp for me. Crunch channel boosted with a beefy guitar and cab and it sounds just right. For thrash. Can be thin if you're looking for a wall off sound type thing that a normal recitifer brings.
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Where are you located?
 
Racerxrated said:
This. I would agree about the tightness going to the Mark; but I’ll disagree with the cut. Rectos are known for their low mid content; but I don’t sense that as much as I do with my C+s that I’ve owned. When setting the Mark to cut more I have to boost it with a pedal to optimize it in a band setting…unless I want to bump the 750 then it’s honk city. Not so with the Triples I’ve owned. They seem to have more upper mid bark than any of the Marks.
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The 2200 slider helps alot with cut, and the presence control believe it or not, as well as the pull bright, it seems to help my Mark IV cut through with ease. Can't go wrong with a OD pedal too, like a SD-1 or Maxon od808. Also a V30 loaded cab, anything cuts through with a V30 loaded cab, tons of upper mids going on with those speakers. I've personally never had a problem cutting through the mix with my Mark IV and my previous Mark III.
 
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there’s not a mark amp I would take over my rev F, not by a mile. The rectos voicing and where it sits just works so much better for me personally. and to me the marks have just gotten worse over time, the V did absolutely nothing for me just honk city that sounded like nothing I personally wanted. I’ll split hairs here too: the mark series Amps are quicker and faster sounding than a boosted recto yes, but not necessarily tighter. I can make my rev F thrash all day and I’d pick it everytime over anything with the word mark in front of it. Again, all opinions, and DEFINITELY no “facts” when it comes to this stuff.
 
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