Diezel Herbert MKI, MKII, Bogner Uber Rev 2, or Twin Jet?

[jack butler]

Couldn't agree more. The Herbert feels a lot like the UL, even if the Herbert is in full saturation/mid-cut/over the top low-end/ridiculous comic book mode. I think the Herbert can do anything the UL can do, plus get extreme(I'm lost in the mix, and my bass player is throwing shit at me) tones. Be content with your VHT, it's usable tone is as good as anything out there. Also, not that I use a boost but the UL likes boost pedals more than the Herbert.

Not much difference in MK1 or MK2. Don't sweat that decision. But, it will be more like your VHT that will always be with you. You want something different and the Ubers are. Don't sweat the Uber revisions either. I think the TJ is a stale amp.

Go Uber (Blue or R2) for something different. Won't break the bank either.

But, I own a Herbie....

 

[moronmountain]

Couldn't agree more. The Herbert feels a lot like the UL, even if the Herbert is in full saturation/mid-cut/over the top low-end/ridiculous comic book mode. I think the Herbert can do anything the UL can do, plus get extreme(I'm lost in the mix, and my bass player is throwing shit at me) tones. Be content with your VHT, it's usable tone is as good as anything out there. Also, not that I use a boost but the UL likes boost pedals more than the Herbert.

Not much difference in MK1 or MK2. Don't sweat that decision. But, it will be more like your VHT that will always be with you. You want something different and the Ubers are. Don't sweat the Uber revisions either. I think the TJ is a stale amp.

Go Uber (Blue or R2) for something different. Won't break the bank either.

But, I own a Herbie....

I'm super content with my UL. I just need a backup, and I want something different that can still do what I need it to do. The UL will still likely be my main amp. I owned one of the very first Ubers, and it could do what I needed it to do, sans a moderately crunchy sound, but it was noisy as all get out.

 

[Ventura]

TJs first channel does crunch and marshall'esque without any problem, and that's not relying on stomps.
TJs second channel slays.

Tight, massive low end, thunderous, loud, and not "noisy".

2 cents

 

[maddnotez]

Don't sleep on the rev.2 its a beast of an amp.

Both TJ and Rev.2 are killer with the right tubes and dialed in right.

That is a very hard choice to decide between all of these amps.

I would honestly pick the rev.2. With my guitar and my taste in tone it was the best.

I am unsure which Mk Herbert I played. Most likely Mk.1 and it didn't get a fair chance due to limited time. I played quickly through each channel but really was only concerned with the brootz and for that ungodly brutal, crush your rib cage tone the Herbert is king.

The Bogners were just bigger and more organic sounding vs. The mid scoop chest pain brutality.

That would be my preference and price tag always plays a factor for me.

Its the same thing as Les is saying but on the other spectrum. Do you prefer ultra brutal compressed? Or a little more organic or loose if you will.

( that mid cut feature is very very nice on the diezel, was really impressed and was my favorite feature)

Whelp I already have a VHT/Fryette Ultra Lead which will always be my main. I actually don't know if I would rather organic or compressed. I used to own the first version Uberschall, and while I loved it, when I had to sell one of my amps, I kept the VHT. One of the biggest reasons was due to the amount of white noise the Uber made even with the guitar's volume off. I almost never use the clean channel on my UL, and I could easily do without it if I had to. The biggest reasons I lean towards the TJ over the rev 2 is because I tend to like the kt88's as I'm used to the clean/tight headroom they offer in my UL, the TJ has 2 channels that I would use a lot, and I worry about the rev 2 being noisy like my old rev 1 Uber. I also have always longed for a Herbert. I played an Einstein and loved it, but I always thought the Herbert would be more fitting for me. The Herby is a tad expensive though, and I really only care about channels 2 and 3. So in the end, I would basically be comparing the following....... Channels 2 and 3 on Herbert to both Twin Jet's channels, and rev 2's dirty channel. If you looked at it that way, then how would you answer then? Is the rev 2's dirty channel better than the 2 channels on each of the others?????????

In this case I would say Rev.2 with KT88 mod.

I'm biased, I fell in love with that amp.

If you search on Bogner Subforum you can find leib10's comparison thread.

He has both the Rev 2 and TJ both with KT88 mod.

Those are the 2 I played. I think he prefers the TJ if I'm not mistaken.

I liked them both but at the time I was using actives and couldn't get a tone I liked from the TJ with actives for some reason.

On a side note I think I liked the winged C in the Rev.2 best.

 

[Black Sabbath]

Which would you pick and why? Thanks!

The Diezel Herbert MKI, the original master of all that is Diezel Herbert. And forget about the MKX child domains ~ all that differs is power amp tubes and a simple preamp tube. IMO, the Herbert (whatever MKX you use) shines best with the stock preamp tube 12AX7C Ruby along with the power tube JJE34L ~ you can't beat that configuration for Herbert's decisive dynamic vibe and ultra headroom.

And You Ask Why? Just locate somewhere that has the original Herbert (if you can even find one) and you will be able to answer your own question with in minutes. .

 

[Ventura]

Go for the Herbert now then...

An Uber or TJ is easy to snag later down the road.

I maintain this position.

Which would you pick and why? Thanks!

The Diezel Herbert MKI, the original master of all that is Diezel Herbert. And forget about the MKX child domains ~ all that differs is power amp tubes and a simple preamp tube. IMO, the Herbert (whatever MKX you use) shines best with the stock preamp tube 12AX7C Ruby along with the power tube JJE34L ~ you can't beat that configuration for Herbert's decisive dynamic vibe and ultra headroom.

And You Ask Why? Just locate somewhere that has the original Herbert (if you can even find one) and you will be able to answer your own question with in minutes. .

I don't know the Herberts as well as many other forum members here do, but I have to say what Black Sabbath has mentioned above, has been mentioned before - the Mk1 is tonally preferred over the Mk2 - but this is only within the Herbert circle. I can't say it first hand, but it has been said numerous times before (and hey, maybe the price is softer on a used Mk1 over a newer Mk2 )

Herbert now.
TJ/Uberschall later.
No problems

 

[maddnotez]

Go for the Herbert now then...

An Uber or TJ is easy to snag later down the road.

Herbert can get nicely saturated too - as a bit of a contrast to your otherwise "dry" preferences

Just my $0.02

You know how much I love to argue

The truth is it doesn't matter to me what you get but a Rev. 2 is not that easy to come by.

 

[se7en]

I really dig the Twin Jet and for the price they go for used makes it a great choice if you don't need a clean channel. Channel 1 is sort of a modern version of a JCM 800 with more bass and a smoother high end. The 2nd channel is just massive and all out nuclear sabotage.

 

[Les Zombie]

I didnt like my twin jet, i was really wanting it to sound like my rev blue but it didnt, i hate the rev blue cleans and liked the idea of the tj having 2 gain channels but overall i was disappointed. I had it side by side with my rev blue and compared them for a month and tried to dial in the tj to get close but with a tighter low end. I sold the tj and kept my rev blue, i think the tj is its own amp and shouldnt be considered a uber.

 

[se7en]

I didn't fall in love with the TJ right away...I think the big bottles need some break-in time to smooth out a bit. ...before buying I demo'd a Rev. Blue and didn't have any GAS for it. I love the clarity and extra oomph of the Twin Jet and think it sounds like a tighter and more articulate Uberschall....similar tone, but more open and wider...with the Rev. Blue I felt like I was fighting the compression like the 101b.

 

[Shiny_Surface]

Having had a Rev2, Rev Blue, and Twin Jet (tried with both EL34 and KT88

Rev2: Deepest, widest and darkest tone of the three. Awesome for recording, had a bit of trouble in a mix but granted only used it a handful of times with drummer.

Rev Blue: Not as wide sounding as the Rev2, and brighter. Taper on clean channel altered. Easier to hear in a mix.

Twin Jet: More urgent sounding on fast palm muting and (to me) tuned even higher for band mix/cutting purposes.

I personally liked TJ best for my needs, but would take a Rev2 for a recording/studio amp the amount of depth it has is staggering lol.

Disclaimer: My opinions differ from many other Uber owners and don't represent a "consensus" or any of that BS that some readers try to collate on forums lol.

They are just my experiences with the 3 particular revisions I've owned.

Many owners have had no issue with any revision in a band mix (and I've heard great clips from all revisions in band contexts), how bright a particular revision is, etc...

 

[moronmountain]

Thanks for all the responses. I think it would be cool if my next amp could do an industrial sound if needed. Something along the lines of Beautiful People by MM, or Ministry, or???????, but could still do close enough to my regular tone to be a viable back up.

 

[se7en]

I think you could find an Industrial tone for a lot less...

 

[moronmountain]

I think you could find an Industrial tone for a lot less...

That's not the main thing I'm looking for at all. I need it to be able to cover my UL as a backup. The industrial thing would be only for "fun," and rarely used at all. I don't even know if I would incorporate it in any of my songs at all to be honest. If that's all I wanted, I would probably just get a SS amp, a metal zone, and a graphic eq.

 

[Anonymous]

I have a Zoom Tri Metal which I thought would sound pretty good for industrial stuff
Very underrated AND overrated pedal
Check the prices on eBay, some people think it's the best ever

 

[se7en]

Trent reznor used ZOOM pedals for gain.

 

[ibenhad]

I'm throwing my vote for the Uberschall. Change up tubes to either EL34's or KT88's and get the sound you want. Great great amp and built like a tank.

 

[FourT6and2]

For me, the Twin Jet is my least favorite of the bunch. I'm a big Diezel and Bogner fan, too. So it's a tough choice. The Herbert is tighter than the Uber. But of the Diezels, the Herbert is my least favorite. I think I'd go with the Uber Rev 2 (Rev blue?). The presence control on that amp is key. Crank it while lowering the treble a bit for a really sweet sound.

 

[moronmountain]

For me, the Twin Jet is my least favorite of the bunch. I'm a big Diezel and Bogner fan, too. So it's a tough choice. The Herbert is tighter than the Uber. But of the Diezels, the Herbert is my least favorite. I think I'd go with the Uber Rev 2 (Rev blue?). The presence control on that amp is key. Crank it while lowering the treble a bit for a really sweet sound.

Do you think it's mostly due to the KT88 power section? I thought Bogner said the pre-amp circuits on the the dirty channel were the same?

 

[Ventura]

For me, the Twin Jet is my least favorite of the bunch. I'm a big Diezel and Bogner fan, too. So it's a tough choice. The Herbert is tighter than the Uber. But of the Diezels, the Herbert is my least favorite. I think I'd go with the Uber Rev 2 (Rev blue?). The presence control on that amp is key. Crank it while lowering the treble a bit for a really sweet sound.

Do you think it's mostly due to the KT88 power section? I thought Bogner said the pre-amp circuits on the the dirty channel were the same?

I swapped to 6550s in my TJ along with some nice preamp glass and it slays. Does everything with great tone, great saturation, and tremendous thump. Are the KT88s bad? No. But I do believe they compromise what people think they'll be getting when looking at it from an Uberschall versus TwinJet perspective.

Here's the notes from the website about the TJ:

The super high gain channel is identical to the standard Uberschall with the exception that the presence control is now in the channel circuit itself, rather than the power amp. The Uberscall's power amp presence control is the same as the Twin Jet's master presence control which affects both channels on the Twin Jet. With these changes the Twin Jet's super high gain channel's presence control becomes an additional tone and feel shaping control.