Does Anyone Else Get the Feeling that

[rsm]

What's your definition?

outliers, and a moving target with feels?

 

[Dan Gleesak]

What's your definition?

It’s anything that is non consensual. It doesn’t have to be violent, it can be through coercion or lies too. It can be through a perceived threat of violence. It can cover a lot of ground.

 

[Dan Gleesak]

outliers, and a moving target with feels?

Just because you choose to harp on an “outlier” I mentioned in passing doesn’t mean it is at the core of my argument. We are only still talking about rape because people are asking me questions about it

 

[rsm]

I don’t see it that way. The man plays every bit the role in getting someone pregnant as the women does.
Your reasoning falls further flat once women are not allowed to decide what to do with their pregnancy. It becomes less their “responsibility” and more their “cross to bear”

only if you refuse to accept that women control access to sex, and approximately 95%+ of pregnancies are due to consensual sex.

You're denying women any or limited agency. If the consequences of an act fall primarily to one party than the other party, it logically follows that that party with higher consequences bears greater responsibility for the outcomes. She who controls the thing, is responsible for the thing.

 

[rsm]

Just because you choose to harp on an “outlier” I mentioned in passing doesn’t mean it is at the core of my argument. We are only still talking about rape because people are asking me questions about it

I didn't even mention rape until you did; my point was women have greater responsibility for pregnancy than men since women control access to consensual sex.

Again, women control access to consensual sex; 95%+ of sex between women and men is consensual; women control who they allow inside them and what conditions they require from the man for intercourse; women get pregnant; women have agency; women have many birth control options and post-fertilization murder options; and therefore have greater responsibility for the outcomes of intercourse.

 

[Dan Gleesak]

only if you refuse to accept that women control access to sex, and approximately 95%+ of pregnancies are due to consensual sex.

You're denying women any or limited agency. If the consequences of an act fall primarily to one party than the other party, it logically follows that that party with higher consequences bears greater responsibility for the outcomes. She who controls the thing, is responsible for the thing.

I don’t agree with the use of your statistics and I also don’t agree that any more weight falls on the woman than the man to not get pregnant.

 

[Dan Gleesak]

I didn't even mention rape until you did; my point was women have greater responsibility for pregnancy than men since women control access to consensual sex.

Again, women control access to consensual sex; 95%+ of sex between women and men is consensual; women control who they allow inside them and what conditions they require from the man for intercourse; women get pregnant; women have agency; women have many birth control options and post-fertilization murder options; and therefore have greater responsibility for the outcomes of intercourse.

how could you not mention rape to someone that says women bear the responsibility to not get pregnant, especially in a discussion that started with abortion bans. It’s an absolute no brainer

 

[rsm]

I don’t agree with the use of your statistics and I also don’t agree that any more weight falls on the woman than the man to not get pregnant.

Clearly. Your belief doesn't mean my statement is incorrect. Let's try an analogy...

If you're a passenger in a car; the driver has more responsibility for the safety of the passengers in the car. The woman controls consensual access to sex; she therefore has more responsibility for the conditions and outcomes if she allows a man to have intercourse with her.

Women have agency.

It should be obvious, clearly it's not; the only way to refute this is to assume women have no agency in controlling access to sex which is easily refuted by reality. Women can have intercourse with any man they want (more or less); men will have sex with any woman they can (more or less); that is she who controls the thing, is responsible for the thing.

 

[Dan Gleesak]

Clearly. Your belief doesn't mean my statement is incorrect. Let's try an analogy...

If you're a passenger in a car; the driver has more responsibility for the safety of the passengers in the car. The woman controls consensual access to sex; she therefore has more responsibility for the conditions and outcomes if she allows a man to have intercourse with her.

Women have agency.

It should be obvious, clearly it's not; the only way to refute this is to assume women have no agency in controlling access to sex which is easily refuted by reality. Women can have intercourse with any man they want (more or less); men will have sex with any woman they can (more or less); that is she who controls the thing, is responsible for the thing.

A more suitable, but still incorrect analogy would be the car has two sets of controls, the man has one and the woman has the other. If the man crashes the car it’s the woman’s fault because it’s her car.

 

[rsm]

how could you not mention rape to someone that says women bear the responsibility to not get pregnant, especially in a discussion that started with abortion bans. It’s an absolute no brainer

you brought up rape, I didn't. I simply pointed out that pregnancy due to rape is an outlier, when it's 5% or less of total pregnancies depending on whose stats you use, none of the stats I quickly scanned had a number greater than 5%....so 95%+ of pregnancies are consensual; and women control access to sex; therefore women choose to get pregnant or not based on their actions and requirements for any man they allow inside her.

Women control access to sex, and the conditions for intercourse which means they have more control, and consequently, more responsibility in the outcomes of intercourse.

 

[rsm]

A more suitable, but still incorrect analogy would be the car has two sets of controls, the man has one and the woman has the other. If the man crashes the car it’s the woman’s fault because it’s her car.

yes, because most cars have two sets of controls...yet another outlier stretch.

edit: how about this: if a woman who controls access to sex refuses to have sex with a man, she won't get pregnant. If she agrees to have sex with a man, she has a probability of getting pregnant.

In both cases, the woman has agency; her body, her choice; what birth control she uses or doesn't: her choice; if she requires a man to wear protection or not: her choice; if she allows a man to nut insider her or not: her choice; in 95%+ of consensual sex between woman and man; the outcome is based on what she permits

 

[Dan Gleesak]

you brought up rape, I didn't. I simply pointed out that pregnancy due to rape is an outlier, when it's 5% or less of total pregnancies depending on whose stats you use, none of the stats I quickly scanned had a number greater than 5%....so 95%+ of pregnancies are consensual; and women control access to sex; therefore women choose to get pregnant or not based on their actions and requirements for any man they allow inside her.

Women control access to sex, and the conditions for intercourse which means they have more control, and consequently, more responsibility in the outcomes of intercourse.

You can keep saying that stat all you want but it doesn’t make it any more relevant.

 

[Dan Gleesak]

yes, because most cars have two sets of controls...yet another outlier stretch.

I’m just pointing out your blatant logical fallacy

 

[Bad Brain]

Here is the criteria for coercion. I don't agree with "Wearing you down by repeatedly asking for sex, or showing they were unhappy". And I think it would be hard to determine the others realistically by phone questionnaire.

 

[rsm]

I’m just pointing out your blatant logical fallacy

nice try; which specific logical fallacy? enjoy your truck with two sets of controls!

 

[rsm]

You can keep saying that stat all you want but it doesn’t make it any more relevant.

because it escapes you, women have agency and greater responsibility due to consequences. that's the kind of thinking that leads to / enables the increase of single mothers - deny women their agency, control and responsibility and rewarding them for negative consequences.

perhaps if women realized they control access to sex and the responsibilities that are part of that, we'd see different numbers?

do go on though.

 

[Dan Gleesak]

nice try; which specific logical fallacy? enjoy your truck with two sets of controls!

You comparing a sexual partner to a passenger in a car.

 

[Dan Gleesak]

because it escapes you, women have agency and greater responsibility due to consequences. that's the kind of thinking that leads to / enables the increase of single mothers - deny women their agency, control and responsibility and rewarding them for negative consequences.

perhaps if women realized they control access to sex and the responsibilities that are part of that, we'd see different numbers?

do go on though.

That would be great if more women did find a way to “control access” better. But not because it should be that way, it would be our necessity due to irresponsible partners

 

[Bad Brain]

Here is the criteria for coercion. I don't agree with "Wearing you down by repeatedly asking for sex, or showing they were unhappy". And I think it would be hard to determine the others realistically by phone questionnaire.
View attachment 320307

Coercion accounts for 80% of the rapes in this study (4,877,000 of 5,935,000 pregnancies).

 

[Bad Brain]

Coercion accounts for 80% of the rapes in this study (4,877,000 of 5,935,000 pregnancies).

I'm not sure about "threatening to end your relationship" either. FFS does that mean some women would rather be "raped" than end a relationship with their "rapist"?