Engl InvaderI/II Or SE E670?

[Wizard of Ozz]

-I thought Kreator used the ENGL extreme aggression Sig amp? or has that changed? I'm no ENGL expert but a former FB 100 & 60 owner, played a bunch of them, I still prefer the FB 100, probably because its simple, like me!

-carry on you crazy kids!,.. Don't forget to wash up when your through..

Yep. That's Mille's Signature head based on the FB100. It's even got the Kreator Devil Head on the front panel.

 

[RJF]

You bastards......

Now I want an EL34 Special Edition.

 

[Intimidator333]

Fight! Fight! Thanks for the replies guys. Every time I post, someone reccomends the FB100. Sounds like it's up my alley for high gain tones. How superior is the SE over the FB? Have the cash for an SE and would prefer to have a mid gain option over just clean and dirty. However I could get by with just the 2. Debating on the SE or get the FB and put ethe extra cash down on my car so I can get rid of it and get another Camaro. I'm horrible at decisions.

 

[Intimidator333]

Fight! Fight! Thanks for the replies guys. Every time I post, someone reccomends the FB100. Sounds like it's up my alley for high gain tones. How superior is the SE over the FB? Have the cash for an SE and would prefer to have a mid gain option over just clean and dirty. However I could get by with just the 2. Debating on the SE or get the FB and put ethe extra cash down on my car so I can get rid of it and get another Camaro. I'm horrible at decisions.

Should mention superior as in high gain channel tone wise. Not all the extra options and kitchen sink the SE has.

 

[prsplayer86]

You bastards......

Now I want an EL34 Special Edition.

DO IT!

 

[Speeddemon]

And crickets....figured as much.

I noticed you've been spewing that 'Invader is just a PB I preamp' crap on SSO as well...

Please stop.
Oh, and as for 'you don't see any bands playing the Invader live'...hmm...Judas Priest, Kreator... I know, I know...small fries...
And more big stars listed here: http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/showth ... p?t=122050

Now, mind you, I'm no Invader fanboy or anything, but I can't stand blatant BS.

You are clueless as evidenced by your posts.

If you can't understand the design and layout of the amps... that's not my issue. I'm not here to educate you. The preamp design, layout, and topology is very similar. 4 preamp tubes, 4 preamp gain stages, same noise gate, same small undersized output transformers... the Invader has EL34s in the power section vs 6L6GCs... ever notice they updated both the Powerball & Invader to the Series 2 versions around the same time? Why? Because the design layout and preamp circuits are very similar. To save on manufacturing costs. Do they sound different, yes... but you are paying for a tricked out Powerball. Sorry to break the news to you. The Invader does not have a different or unique preamp like the SE or Savage for example. Just open up the amps side by side as I have, and look at them. Simple.

Who's the clueless one here?
Just because two amps have 4 preamp tubes, a noise gate and 4 channels, doesn't mean the preamps have the same layout. With your logic, the preamp of a Marshall JVM-Satriani sig should be based on the Powerball too, huh? Well, touche...that one has 5 tubes. Maybe it's closer to the SLO. Oh wait...

Heck, pretty much most of the bigger Engl heads have 4 preamp tubes. Steve Morse, Savage 120, the old Sovereign....

Yet these amps are quite different.

Oh, and both were upgraded 'around the same time' to version 2?! LOL! Powerball II was available in 2010, while the Invader II introduction was more than 3 years later! (Noticed the '30 Years' badge on the Invader II? 1983-2013...)

"The ENGL Powerball II was introduced since Winter NAMM show 2010"

http://www.guitarplayer.com/amplifiers/ ... r-ii/25225
viewtopic.php?f=80&t=137967

I guess "Kill 'em All" and "Reign in Blood" were released around the same time as well?

Point is; 3,5 years for amplifier development is quite a time.

This is so funny to do...you know...backing up your shit. You should try it.

As for bands... Ive never heard of any of those "big bands" in you linked post. Richie Falkner in Priest uses the PB2. Millie in Kreator has his own Engl Signature model based on the Fireball100. Get your facts straight.

1) Rrrright, Priest only has one guitar player then?
http://www.glenntipton.co.uk/equipment.asp

2) before the Extreme Aggression sig. they used Invaders. Look it up. Various "Endorsement" notifications around 2006.
3) Those 'big bands' was a joke, ya moron.

I own a Herbert MkII (and used to own a MkI) and no channel or mode on the Herbert sounds anything like Dimebag's SS Randall Warhead... not remotely close. The Warhead Dimebag used was a super mid-scooped SS gained out sound. You have no idea what you are talking about. I doubt you own or have played any of these amps you mention. Sorry that myself, and others in this thread, prefer the SE to your shiny toy. Get over it. I'm done speaking to you.

LOL. RRrright, because you can't get a tight, supersaturated, mid-scooped sound with a 180W high gain monster? Again, spoken like a clueless hack with more money apparently than knowledge how to coax different tones from an amp. And as for me owning the amps I talk about, plenty of pics on this forum as proof. Check the Savage 60 HNAD topic and you can catch 3 at once.

But likewise, I'm done talking to such a stubborn 12 year old. Tomorrow I have a buddy coming over, who hopefully brings his Savage SE for a nice little shootout. Who knows...I might even take pictures as proof!


My apologies to the topic starter. But I see rather that you're well informed with a nice little special olympics discussion on the side than taking someone's BS as fact when he can't seem to back it up anywhere.
And no, again, the Invader would NOT be my 1st choice for the bands you mentioned.

How old is your Savage 120 by the way? I believe they updated the OT somewhere in 2014; should give some more low-end girth.

 

[indespise]

Fight! Fight! Thanks for the replies guys. Every time I post, someone reccomends the FB100. Sounds like it's up my alley for high gain tones. How superior is the SE over the FB? Have the cash for an SE and would prefer to have a mid gain option over just clean and dirty. However I could get by with just the 2. Debating on the SE or get the FB and put ethe extra cash down on my car so I can get rid of it and get another Camaro. I'm horrible at decisions.

The FB100's high gain channel does clean up very nicely when you roll down your volume knob, though that may not be an ideal solution if you want 3 footswitchable channels.

 

[shredhead7]

Fight! Fight! Thanks for the replies guys. Every time I post, someone reccomends the FB100. Sounds like it's up my alley for high gain tones. How superior is the SE over the FB? Have the cash for an SE and would prefer to have a mid gain option over just clean and dirty. However I could get by with just the 2. Debating on the SE or get the FB and put ethe extra cash down on my car so I can get rid of it and get another Camaro. I'm horrible at decisions.

Should mention superior as in high gain channel tone wise. Not all the extra options and kitchen sink the SE has.

While I have an SE EL34 that I am contemplating selling, I would seriously consider the Powerball. My friend is in the same boat as you, and as much as I would like him to buy my amp, the Powerball more than fits the bill and would save you $1000 on the used market. I owned the V1 and never had a problem cutting through and the noise gate did what it was supposed it. As others have said, the Fireball is supposed to be channel 1 and 3 of the Powerball, so that might even be a better option if you're cost conscious.

 

[prsplayer86]

Blackmore is my favorite Engl amp.. My tone tastes in amps have changed over the years, but I definitely gravitate towards the Blackmore in the Engl amp line up. This is an fairly recent video but does a great job of showing it in a mix/tracked on its own while running through all of the possible gain/amp settings. Pretty confident it would cover the bands you're wanting to play too.

 

[RJF]

I would really like to try a bunch of ENGL amps actually. Powerball 2, Fireball, Savage, and the SE. I always liked Primal Fear and I believe all of their tones were recorded with a Savage.

I owned a Powerball v1 a long time ago and while it was a cool amp, it seemed to sound "hollow" in the mids and at the time I thought it sounded somewhat similar to my Herbert, but just not as good. Traded it for a MK4B.

 

[prsplayer86]

Damn you and your Herbert!! I keep telling myself that I'm content with my twin jet...

I would really like to try a bunch of ENGL amps actually. Powerball 2, Fireball, Savage, and the SE. I always liked Primal Fear and I believe all of their tones were recorded with a Savage.

I owned a Powerball v1 a long time ago and while it was a cool amp, it seemed to sound "hollow" in the mids and at the time I thought it sounded somewhat similar to my Herbert, but just not as good. Traded it for a MK4B.

 

[Speeddemon]

I would really like to try a bunch of ENGL amps actually. Powerball 2, Fireball, Savage, and the SE. I always liked Primal Fear and I believe all of their tones were recorded with a Savage.

Yep, their first album really had awesome tones. Thick and chewy, yet tight and defined too. Herr Naumann is quite the player. That intro of "Chainbreaker" is one of my benchmarks as well.

I owned a Powerball v1 a long time ago and while it was a cool amp, it seemed to sound "hollow" in the mids and at the time I thought it sounded somewhat similar to my Herbert, but just not as good. Traded it for a MK4B.

I played in a Twisted Sister-tribute for a while, where the other guy had the PBI. I used my 5150III at the time and he always had trouble getting through the mix with his PBI and it sounded a bit thin too.
But I've noticed various Engls can sound really thin or even fizzy if you run the channel volumes too low (like around 9 'o clock).
The PB II sounded a lot better, even more 'organic' relatively speaking (it's still a Powerball). Plus, you finally have 4 independent gain-controls on the PB II.

Anyway, I still need to check out the EL34 version of the current SE, as well as the Invader II. Some of the clips online suggested that channel 4 is a lot tighter and more brutal than the smooth, middy, loose channel 4 of the 1st Invader. Tomorrow 'Savage SE' test day.

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

Heck, pretty much most of the bigger Engl heads have 4 preamp tubes. Steve Morse, Savage 120, the old Sovereign....

The Savage 120 has 6 preamp tubes... but you would know that if you ever played one or it even saw it in person... instead of the regurgitated psycho-bable you keep blathering on about. The SE has 5 preamp tubes... so they are all "not the same" as you falsely state.

LOL. RRrright, because you can't get a tight, supersaturated, mid-scooped sound with a 180W high gain monster? Again, spoken like a clueless hack with more money apparently than knowledge how to coax different tones from an amp. And as for me owning the amps I talk about, plenty of pics on this forum as proof. Check the Savage 60 HNAD topic and you can catch 3 at once.

You are the clueless one here... a Herbert will never sound like a solid-state Randall Warhead... no matter what settings you use. Again, you'd know this if you ever played either amp. Your words have proven your ignorance and lack of experience. Keep rocking the Gorilla and Hondo... I'm sure your tone kills.

 

[Speeddemon]

Did I say "ALL" or did I say "Most", ya hack?

I stand corrected on the Savage 120 having 4 preamp tubes; I was thinking of the Savage 60's layout.

Now if you'd be a good boy and admit your BS about the Invader having the same preamp as the Powerball I, we can all play along again.

 

[MetalHeadMike]

-I thought Kreator used the ENGL extreme aggression Sig amp? or has that changed? I'm no ENGL expert but a former FB 100 & 60 owner, played a bunch of them, I still prefer the FB 100, probably because its simple, like me!

-carry on you crazy kids!,.. Don't forget to wash up when your through..

I read an article when Phantom Antichrist came out where Mille stated that for that album they used a mix of ENGL and 5153 (he didn't state the ENGL model(s)) I don't think the Extreme aggression existed for that album. The Extreme Aggression head very well may have been used on Gods of Violence?

Half the time I don't think these guys even use their sig heads. Its probably mostly pure marketing.

The FB100 does just kick ass

 

[RockyStar]

Just get the SE and be done with it.

 

[Speeddemon]

This is one reason Engl quickly released a second version

Invader 1 released=2007.
Invader 2 released=2013.

"quickly released a 2nd version..." --> FAKE NEWS.

The Invader is the Powerball 1.0 preamp with an EL34 power amp and 4 separate channels...

---> FAKE NEWS #2.

Just for you, straight from the horse's mouth (Martin Zimmerman @ Engl:

The sound of our devices is significantly formed in the preamp stage.
Of course, the power amplifier also contributes to the sound shaping effect but is rather sound-coloring.
The preamp stages of the Invader and the Powerball differ significantly, especially in terms of the sound filters.

PS: note that I'm *NOT* contesting whether the SE is a better amp than the Invader, but I can't stand bullshit/opinion presented as facts, when the actual facts show otherwise.
Who knows... there may be an SE EL34 in my future too.

 

[Mailman1971]

This is one reason Engl quickly released a second version

Invader 1 released=2007.
Invader 2 released=2013.

"quickly released a 2nd version..." --> FAKE NEWS.


April 2017...…
to
September 2018.

Quickly released reply ever.

 

[Speeddemon]

This is one reason Engl quickly released a second version

Invader 1 released=2007.
Invader 2 released=2013.

"quickly released a 2nd version..." --> FAKE NEWS.


April 2017...…
to
September 2018.

Quickly released reply ever.

To be fair, I already called him out on that BS earlier April 7th 2017, but he decided to not base his claims with facts.
Since then I've been in contact with Engl's own tech dept., that further backed MY claim that the Powerball and Invader preamps are NOT (that) alike.

As I was checking some Invader threads regarding some help in making it sound a bit more raw in CH2, I came across this fun read again and you know... My inner Thruth-ist got the best of me.

 

[thrashinbatman]

-I thought Kreator used the ENGL extreme aggression Sig amp? or has that changed? I'm no ENGL expert but a former FB 100 & 60 owner, played a bunch of them, I still prefer the FB 100, probably because its simple, like me!

-carry on you crazy kids!,.. Don't forget to wash up when your through..

I read an article when Phantom Antichrist came out where Mille stated that for that album they used a mix of ENGL and 5153 (he didn't state the ENGL model(s)) I don't think the Extreme aggression existed for that album. The Extreme Aggression head very well may have been used on Gods of Violence?

Half the time I don't think these guys even use their sig heads. Its probably mostly pure marketing.

The FB100 does just kick ass

Yeah, he used the Fireball for a while, and I believe Kreator use Kempers now. Who knows what profiles they run, though I wouldn't be surprised if Mille at least runs profiles of the Extreme Aggression.

Anyway, really, most ENGLs would be acceptable. Me personally, I'd pick up the SE or Savage, though if you can swing an Invader that's pretty cool too. The Savage 120 with the Depth Boost engaged has an absurd amount of low end. It's incredibly thick and punchy (and I say punchy almost literally), but not muddy. I had the 60 for a while, and it is a bit thin. Whenever my other guitarist would start soloing, most of the beef in the guitars would vanish. Switching my pickup from a Duncan JB to Duncan Custom helped, but it didn't totally sort the issue out. Never had that issue with the 120, in fact I buried my other guitarist with the 120 for a while (for the longest time while I played the Thunder I'd get lost in his tone, and that's with a generous helping of mids).