Epic Bartlett 59

[Chubtone]

I won't answer for Steve, but the old inlays can shrink up over time and end up looking like this.

 

[H Golf Sport]

Ahh ok accurate replica.
Are these normally filled with something like super glue or is it a non issue and not felt while playing?

 

[Anonymous]

Ahh ok accurate replica.
Are these normally filled with something like super glue or is it a non issue and not felt while playing?

My understanding is that it is a non-issue when playing...

Steve

 

[steve_k]

Ahh ok accurate replica.
Are these normally filled with something like super glue or is it a non issue and not felt while playing?

Just the slightest of gap on 17th. but, i didn't notice it until you did. and no, it isn't felt while playing. the braz board is super smooth.

 

[steve_k]

Nobody's saying Slash (or anybody else) is a bad guy
What I'm pointing out is some people's double discourse over cheap vs expensive counterfeits
I've bought a LP copy myself. Right or wrong? I'm ambivalent

Actually, some folks posting in this thread ARE taking a pretty negative, "holier than though" attitude about the replica thing... and they are entitled to their opinion, as I am to retort....

You obviously are not taking that attitude...

I see the negativity at both ends of the price spectrum, frankly...

What are you paying for when you buy a '59 replica?
Quality? yes
But mostly, you're paying for it's nearly identical resemblance to an already existing product
Builder are getting paid because they can copy something perceived as valuable, not innovate or create

I'm paying for one guy's craftsmanship to make me a guitar that is the closest thing looks-wise, playability-wise and sound-wise to a real '59 at a price I can afford. It's more than just looks to me. Can't argue with anything else you said.

Steve

sums it up.....

 

[steve_k]

BTW, I think it's ironic that one of the most iconic Les Paul players and endorsers was actually playing replicas with replica names and logos:

Slash's Replicas

Slash is a bad guy I guess...

Steve

very true. all of slash's original LP's are luthier made replicas. then, the sig models came along, which is has to play at some point. same with bonamassa and i am sure countless others. fender players are even worse.

 

[steve_k]

I should clarify that I wasn't saying you are close minded. It just seems a portion of guitar players seem too obsessed about looks of something that was made create music that you use your ears to enjoy.

I didn't take any offense to what you said, I was just clarifying my position. You may very well be right about obsession with looks, etc, but most of the folks here are not pro musicians, in fact, many don't gig or record at all. If their hobby is buying guitars based on the look, or whatever, who cares, and why are they to be looked down on for doing so?

If I may ask though.... would you be ok with someone making an exact copy of your Cherry Bomb amp down to every detail including your logo and name and selling it?

I knew this was coming, and it is a fair question. The only thing I am conflicted on in the least is the logo/name, however, as I said, that aspect is irrelevant to me. In other words, I'd buy the guitar with whatever was written on the headstock. To me that has no value. The guitar will have more value as what it really is, so passing it off as something from the original manufacturer makes no sense and any real buyer is going to know it is not a real '59... It is a replica and people make replicas of all kinds of things down to the last detail...

If the original manufacturer was making guitars like this, I'd buy one, but they don't... that is why there is a small market for these in the first place.

As far as making something that copies a design, it happens every day. Ceriatone and any number of amp companies make a living directly copying other designs EXACTLY, putting a different logo on the final product and selling it (usually cheaper) and no one seems to have much issue with that. You can't really protect amp designs - they are simple circuits and it is cost prohibitive to try to actually patent any innovation around them for small companies anyway. You have to have deep pockets to enforce a patent. Not worth it... I think patenting guitar bodies and head stocks that have been in the public domain for 60 years is laughable, especially since many companies were making the same style guitars forever. It is just a way to try and control the market now...

Finally, it would be silly of anyone to use my name and logo. I have very low market penetration, so anyone copying my amp would be better off putting their own name on it. if someone was making an exact copy of my amp with a different name, there would be nothing I could do about it frankly, so I wouldn't care in the least... If it was really an exact copy down to the components, I'd know for a fact they couldn't price it cheaper than I have and make money...

Steve

Obviously we see things differently and that's cool..... I'd personally never buy one because it's illegal for this guy build these guitars and he knows it and that's why no pics of the headstocks are shown. People can play justification gymnastics all thy want with excuses of magic old wood, "Gibson can't or won't", "attention to detail" but it is wrong for this guy to build and sell these guitars.

your moral high ground is amusing.

 

[Anonymous]

What's the ' Justin Derico Wind ' on the pickups ?

 

[Shawn Lutz]

BTW, I think it's ironic that one of the most iconic Les Paul players and endorsers was actually playing replicas with replica names and logos:

Slash's Replicas

Slash is a bad guy I guess...

Steve

that dude is a poser...sheesh

 

[bonedarrell]

Why not put a nice Bartlett headstock on it and be proud of it?

The second next owner is going to sell it off as a real Gibson. "Super rare factory Black Burst"...

That would be dumb because they'll make more money selling it off as what it really is...

Steve

So does it look like a Gibson headstock with the logo and Les Paul sig or does it have a Bartlett headstock? I'm assuming by the responses it's just another small time builder who can't sell enough of his original deigns to guitars players so fucking closed minded and worried what others think abut their gear and forum cred that it has to have that sacred headstock design and logo.

It's a very accurate, painstakingly aged replica of a '59 LP. A replica is defined as "an exact copy or model of something". It's hand built by one guy using old growth lumber and original techniques with attention to detail that can't be matched by a big company approach for a price that is similar to a Collector's Choice. I personally appreciate this kind of craftsmanship and I've seen detailed pictures of how these builds are done and that is why I decided to get one. I'm not closed minded to original designs, I don't care what people think of my gear (although I share pictures sometimes for fun), I don't care about forum cred and personally, I don't care about sacred headstock designs and logos either... that aspect doesn't matter or appeal to me at all...

Steve

I should clarify that I wasn't saying you are close minded. It just seems a portion of guitar players seem too obsessed about looks of something that was made create music that you use your ears to enjoy.

If I may ask though.... would you be ok with someone making an exact copy of your Cherry Bomb amp down to every detail including your logo and name and selling it?

That's apples to oranges.

50's and early 60's Les Pauls haven't been produced for over 50 years and Gibson won't or can't produce replicas that use the same materials and craftsmanship. Hence the need to purchase quality replicas from other builders.

The Cherry Bomb is still being produced by the original designer/manufacturer.

So, would it be OK if I remade Nike Jordan XII's and sell them for profit? Nike can't or won't remake them, hence the need to find a quality replica...

Another apples to oranges comparison. But go ahead, knock yourself out. Just keep in mind that nobody wants them other than some microcosm of society with a bizarre fetish for ugly rubber shoes.

The actual product in question is irrelevant. I don't really care what guitar people play, but a counterfeit is a counterfeit, an unauthorized reproduction of a copyrighted product. If the guitar you love is a counterfeit, fine, but call it what it is.

Go look up the definition of counterfeit. You're off on this one. No fraudulent intent from the builder. All of us that own a Barltett clearly know we don't own actual Gibsons. That's the point.

 

[1meanplexi]

BTW, I think it's ironic that one of the most iconic Les Paul players and endorsers was actually playing replicas with replica names and logos:

Slash's Replicas

Slash is a bad guy I guess...

Steve

very true. all of slash's original LP's are luthier made replicas. then, the sig models came along, which is has to play at some point. same with bonamassa and i am sure countless others. fender players are even worse.

Slash said in an article that his main LP was a guitar that Gibson could never build. Carry on Steve. Who really gives a fuck what is on the Headstock. Would love to hear that through some of the Diezel gear you got over there !

 

[petethorn]

Great looking guitar!

It's already been stated, but for guys that don't understand the difference between a Chinese made copy and a 59 replica made by Bartlett, Gil Yaron, or... Hmm those are really the premier guys that build these things...

The best vintage guitars (I said THE BEST, there are duds) there at have a soul, tone, and playability that is rarely equalled in modern guitars. Is it the wood, the craftsmanship, the parts, the attention to detail by the builder(s)... It's actually all that. And it can be argued that even the best modern efforts from Gibson, Fender, etc don't equal the best old instruments- I think it's way tougher to capture old Gibson magic in a new axe than it is to equal the best old Fenders- Fenders are just way more basic.

Anyway, when people pick up my Yaron, even unplugged, it usually goes like this- "ok, hmmm, looks pretty nice"... Strum a chord... "Uh, fuck. Wow"... Play a few notes... "This is insane". Then plugged in, it's.. ya. Not bullshitting. Most guys have not played a Les Paul that sounds and responds like that. I had a real 54 GT back in the 90's, a good one, (sold it like an idiot).... and I've played probably 10 1957 to 1960 LP's in my life so I know what a good one is supposed to do. And it's not cork sniffer subtle shit I'm taking about here, with my Yaron- people who don't even play will hear it when you strum a chord or hit a note, even unplugged- "wow, that guitar is really loud!" That kind of thing.

So until you've played a guitar that's been made to equal the best old ones, don't assume it's just a "copy", that it's bullshit or something. I've owned 3 historic LP's, still have one (a 2009 50th anniversary 59 reissue, #34 of 500) that's quite nice. My Yaron walks all over it, and hangs neck and neck with my 63 ES335 which is a ferocious tone monster, in the mojo dept.

If you just play really dirty preamp gain tone all the time- never mind, you won't care anyway. But don't be a bonehead and comment on something you don't know about- play a Bartlett or a Yaron and play real deal 57-59 LP's (good ones) and then find the best Historic you can find. Then report back and tell us if it's bullshit or not- from a place of experience.

 

[petethorn]

Hey Steve, nice guitar!!! Like the black.
One question though are there gaps by the inlays? Or is it just the photo?

That's how real ones look. They filled around the inlays with something.

Replica! Down to even that slightly bizarre detail. The Yarons are the same. Nylon nut is another detail... most would argue bone is much better, but they came with nylon so.. that's how these are made.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the input Pete

I don't think anybody's comparing Bartlett/Yaron with Chinese copies tone- or quality-wise

Do Bartlett/Yaron guitars have to be copies in order to sound as good as a '59 LP? I know Bartlett make other models. If they use the same wood and crafstmanship, why not make an original guitar that will sound as good as a replica?

 

[IndyWS6]

Great looking guitar!

It's already been stated, but for guys that don't understand the difference between a Chinese made copy and a 59 replica made by Bartlett, Gil Yaron, or... Hmm those are really the premier guys that build these things...

The best vintage guitars (I said THE BEST, there are duds) there at have a soul, tone, and playability that is rarely equalled in modern guitars. Is it the wood, the craftsmanship, the parts, the attention to detail by the builder(s)... It's actually all that. And it can be argued that even the best modern efforts from Gibson, Fender, etc don't equal the best old instruments- I think it's way tougher to capture old Gibson magic in a new axe than it is to equal the best old Fenders- Fenders are just way more basic.

Anyway, when people pick up my Yaron, even unplugged, it usually goes like this- "ok, hmmm, looks pretty nice"... Strum a chord... "Uh, fuck. Wow"... Play a few notes... "This is insane". Then plugged in, it's.. ya. Not bullshitting. Most guys have not played a Les Paul that sounds and responds like that. I had a real 54 GT back in the 90's, a good one, (sold it like an idiot).... and I've played probably 10 1957 to 1960 LP's in my life so I know what a good one is supposed to do. And it's not cork sniffer subtle shit I'm taking about here, with my Yaron- people who don't even play will hear it when you strum a chord or hit a note, even unplugged- "wow, that guitar is really loud!" That kind of thing.

So until you've played a guitar that's been made to equal the best old ones, don't assume it's just a "copy", that it's bullshit or something. I've owned 3 historic LP's, still have one (a 2009 50th anniversary 59 reissue, #34 of 500) that's quite nice. My Yaron walks all over it, and hangs neck and neck with my 63 ES335 which is a ferocious tone monster, in the mojo dept.

If you just play really dirty preamp gain tone all the time- never mind, you won't care anyway. But don't be a bonehead and comment on something you don't know about- play a Bartlett or a Yaron and play real deal 57-59 LP's (good ones) and then find the best Historic you can find. Then report back and tell us if it's bullshit or not- from a place of experience.

Dibs on the '63 ES335

 

[charveldan]

I guess if youre rich or famous Gibson wont come after you for a replica IDK.

Try getting a Yaron or Bartlett thru customs, or a Gibby for that matter ...

 

[bonedarrell]

Thanks for the input Pete

I don't think anybody's comparing Bartlett/Yaron with Chinese copies tone- or quality-wise

Do Bartlett/Yaron guitars have to be copies in order to sound as good as a '59 LP? I know Bartlett make other models. If they use the same wood and crafstmanship, why not make an original guitar that will sound as good as a replica?

Pete gave the best answer to this debate. Guitars are visual as well to a lot of people (me included). I'll put myself out there to say that I consider guitars "jewelry" in a sense. Although I haven't played one of Tom Bartlett's original Retrospect models, I am certain he puts the same craftsmanship into those guitars and, thus, they sound and feel as good as his replicas. This is probably just as true with Gil Yaon's "Bone" model. But, call me superficial, I like the way a guitar looks down to the dumbest detail as well as how it sounds and plays so I bought a Bartlett '59 replica. That's all.

 

[bonedarrell]

I guess if youre rich or famous Gibson wont come after you for a replica IDK.

Try getting a Yaron or Bartlett thru customs, or a Gibby for that matter ...

I am neither and it worked out just fine.

 

[IndyWS6]

I spent a lot of time to write an incredibly articulate post for this thread - and then hit the "back" button on my mouse by mistake. POOF - it was gone

I'll (mostly) sum it up:
* Steve_K - it's a beautiful guitar. You can (and obviously do) buy whatever you want. You don't need my permission, but carry on, sir
* I want one
* I can afford one
* I see the arguments, but I'm not morally conflicted to the point that I wouldn't own one

I just can't justify one - and it has nothing to do with copyrights or patent infringements. Somewhere along the line, I became incredibly practical when it comes to financial decisions. I'm talking neurotic levels of practicality. I'm a half-assed rhythm guitar player in a generic cover band. Combine that with the neurotic practicality and I struggle to come up with a way to justify the purchase. Doesn't mean I'm not trying, though

I've been looking at them for over a year. I'm getting close to pulling the trigger...

 

[jmgman69]

That guitar is just plain BAD ASS!!!!!! Super guitar Steve!!!!!!!!