FEDS Raid Gibson Factories

[tdarian]

Press Release link: http://www.gibson.com/absolutenm/templa ... 0&zoneid=6

 

[thiswaythatway]

Somewhere Paul Reed Smith, Tom Anderson, and John Suhr all gave eachother a High 5, or a bro hug, whichever is fashionable these days.

 

[OldSkoolNJ]

Dam no wonder Eric Holder and the D.O.J. can't take care of important stuff they have been having to deal with this type of b.s.

 

[degenaro]

Made in the US is becoming stuck in the box in the US...that's right now that I'm not working for a gear co. no more I can bad mouth stuff. Yeah, baby!

Done with the THD gig Ed?

Yup...too busy being a muso these days. Especially when I end up spending more time in India than here.

 

[harddriver]

Dam no wonder Eric Holder and the D.O.J. can't take care of important stuff they have been having to deal with this type of b.s.

Yes instead of dealing with our failing economy, LET's go after the few remaining American companies who haven't relocated overseas and mess with them and maybe the American government can cause these businesses to fail and add some more people to the unemployment lines!

BRILLIANT SIMPLY BRILLIANT!

 

[Jordon]

This is kinda like what I think I remember hearing happened at Washburn. They said up and down our guitars are made in the USA...funny thing when raided they found thousands of made in china stickers on the walls above the set up benches??

When did that happen? I used to do assembly and setup at the factory in Mundelein, IL and I don't remember seeing thousands of "Made In China" stickers stuck to our benches.

 

[Neeklaus]

This is kinda like what I think I remember hearing happened at Washburn. They said up and down our guitars are made in the USA...funny thing when raided they found thousands of made in china stickers on the walls above the set up benches??

When did that happen? I used to do assembly and setup at the factory in Mundelein, IL and I don't remember seeing thousands of "Made In China" stickers stuck to our benches.

I was hoping more info about this would pop up, but now I'm very interested.

We need sources to be cited

 

[blackba]

From the WSJ:

Guitar Frets: Environmental Enforcement Leaves Musicians in Fear.

Federal agents swooped in on Gibson Guitar Wednesday, raiding factories and offices in Memphis and Nashville, seizing several pallets of wood, electronic files and guitars. The Feds are keeping mum, but in a statement yesterday Gibson's chairman and CEO, Henry Juszkiewicz, defended his company's manufacturing policies, accusing the Justice Department of bullying the company. "The wood the government seized Wednesday is from a Forest Stewardship Council certified supplier," he said, suggesting the Feds are using the aggressive enforcement of overly broad laws to make the company cry uncle.

It isn't the first time that agents of the Fish and Wildlife Service have come knocking at the storied maker of such iconic instruments as the Les Paul electric guitar, the J-160E acoustic-electric John Lennon played, and essential jazz-boxes such as Charlie Christian's ES-150. In 2009 the Feds seized several guitars and pallets of wood from a Gibson factory, and both sides have been wrangling over the goods in a case with the delightful name "United States of America v. Ebony Wood in Various Forms."

The question in the first raid seemed to be whether Gibson had been buying illegally harvested hardwoods from protected forests, such as the Madagascar ebony that makes for such lovely fretboards. And if Gibson did knowingly import illegally harvested ebony from Madagascar, that wouldn't be a negligible offense. Peter Lowry, ebony and rosewood expert at the Missouri Botanical Garden, calls the Madagascar wood trade the "equivalent of Africa's blood diamonds." But with the new raid, the government seems to be questioning whether some wood sourced from India met every regulatory jot and tittle.

It isn't just Gibson that is sweating. Musicians who play vintage guitars and other instruments made of environmentally protected materials are worried the authorities may be coming for them next.

If you are the lucky owner of a 1920s Martin guitar, it may well be made, in part, of Brazilian rosewood. Cross an international border with an instrument made of that now-restricted wood, and you better have correct and complete documentation proving the age of the instrument. Otherwise, you could lose it to a zealous customs agent—not to mention face fines and prosecution.

John Thomas, a law professor at Quinnipiac University and a blues and ragtime guitarist, says "there's a lot of anxiety, and it's well justified." Once upon a time, he would have taken one of his vintage guitars on his travels. Now, "I don't go out of the country with a wooden guitar."

The tangled intersection of international laws is enforced through a thicket of paperwork. Recent revisions to 1900's Lacey Act require that anyone crossing the U.S. border declare every bit of flora or fauna being brought into the country. One is under "strict liability" to fill out the paperwork—and without any mistakes.

It's not enough to know that the body of your old guitar is made of spruce and maple: What's the bridge made of? If it's ebony, do you have the paperwork to show when and where that wood was harvested and when and where it was made into a bridge? Is the nut holding the strings at the guitar's headstock bone, or could it be ivory? "Even if you have no knowledge—despite Herculean efforts to obtain it—that some piece of your guitar, no matter how small, was obtained illegally, you lose your guitar forever," Prof. Thomas has written. "Oh, and you'll be fined $250 for that false (or missing) information in your Lacey Act Import Declaration."

Consider the recent experience of Pascal Vieillard, whose Atlanta-area company, A-440 Pianos, imported several antique Bösendorfers. Mr. Vieillard asked officials at the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species how to fill out the correct paperwork—which simply encouraged them to alert U.S. Customs to give his shipment added scrutiny.

There was never any question that the instruments were old enough to have grandfathered ivory keys. But Mr. Vieillard didn't have his paperwork straight when two-dozen federal agents came calling.

Facing criminal charges that might have put him in prison for years, Mr. Vieillard pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor count of violating the Lacey Act, and was handed a $17,500 fine and three years probation.

Given the risks, why don't musicians just settle for the safety of carbon fiber? Some do—when concert pianist Jeffrey Sharkey moved to England two decades ago, he had Steinway replace the ivories on his piano with plastic.

Still, musicians cling to the old materials. Last year, Dick Boak, director of artist relations for C.F. Martin & Co., complained to Mother Nature News about the difficulty of getting elite guitarists to switch to instruments made from sustainable materials. "Surprisingly, musicians, who represent some of the most savvy, ecologically minded people around, are resistant to anything about changing the tone of their guitars," he said.

You could mark that up to hypocrisy—artsy do-gooders only too eager to tell others what kind of light bulbs they have to buy won't make sacrifices when it comes to their own passions. Then again, maybe it isn't hypocrisy to recognize that art makes claims significant enough to compete with environmentalists' agendas.

Scary stuff indeed. I hate when things are taken too far.

 

[daver101]

Another example of TOO BIG GOVERNMENT.........

 

[JTyson]

I'm waiting for Holder to say he let it into the country so they could track it

 

[Milerky2]

ummm. I understand the need to protect the natural resources and all.. But isn't all this a little absurd? I mean, seriously! I'll bet the money spent on this raid over whether an Indian finished the wood or not is ridiculous! I am sure Gibson has a call center somewhere in Mumbai, just have Mujabahr sign whatever form and fax it. Case Closed!

bad joke of day:

the reason there are so many call centers in developing countries is because they are only allowed to put one English question on the application.

"make a sentence with the words, Green, pink, and yellow." ( scroll for answer)










"The phone goes GREEN, GREEN, I PINK it up and say YELLOW, this is Mujabahr, how can I help you?"

 

[steve_k]

I wonder if this had anything to do with the rumors that the standard les pauls and certain other guitar blanks came from China then were finished in the USA and stamped with made in USA?

I hope so. Would serve the fuckers right.

 

[Jordon]

ummm. I understand the need to protect the natural resources and all.. But isn't all this a little absurd? I mean, seriously! I'll bet the money spent on this raid over whether an Indian finished the wood or not is ridiculous! I am sure Gibson has a call center somewhere in Mumbai, just have Mujabahr sign whatever form and fax it. Case Closed!

bad joke of day:

the reason there are so many call centers in developing countries is because they are only allowed to put one English question on the application.

"make a sentence with the words, Green, pink, and yellow." ( scroll for answer)










"The phone goes GREEN, GREEN, I PINK it up and say YELLOW, this is Mujabahr, how can I help you?"

The US is made up of such tolerant people.

 

[joepete77]

This is not right, They fuck with gibson which are actually one of the few things that are made in America and desired around the world. I guess the govnmt wont be happy till gibson packs the plant up and moves it to china like every other once proud U.S. company. Almost everything we import into this country is now either made in sweat shops, or places with no enviromental regulations whatsoever, yet they bust gibsons balls and seize their wood supply before they even have proof or file charges.

 

[Milerky2]

ummm. I understand the need to protect the natural resources and all.. But isn't all this a little absurd? I mean, seriously! I'll bet the money spent on this raid over whether an Indian finished the wood or not is ridiculous! I am sure Gibson has a call center somewhere in Mumbai, just have Mujabahr sign whatever form and fax it. Case Closed!

bad joke of day:

the reason there are so many call centers in developing countries is because they are only allowed to put one English question on the application.

"make a sentence with the words, Green, pink, and yellow." ( scroll for answer)










"The phone goes GREEN, GREEN, I PINK it up and say YELLOW, this is Mujabahr, how can I help you?"

The US is made up of such tolerant people.

I meant no offence, If I offended you I apologize. It is IT humor.

I know it was in bad taste, but the absurdity of the whole thing is that a company as old as Gibson can't see the forest for the trees so to speak.

Taylor Guitars has worked extremely hard to partner with villages and governments to secure sustainable sources of wood that directly benefits the locals who care for the trees.

Bob Taylor knew that the current way of harvesting wood was unsustainable. How can a young "upstart" guitar builder see what's coming and a giant like Gibson make all the wrong decisions?

I hope a new innovative company rises from these ashes.

 

[Jordon]

Don't get me wrong, I don't think US jobs should be handed out to people in other countries like candy on Halloween, but I also don't think the racist remarks are needed, either.

 

[stephen sawall]

ummm. I understand the need to protect the natural resources and all.. But isn't all this a little absurd? I mean, seriously! I'll bet the money spent on this raid over whether an Indian finished the wood or not is ridiculous! I am sure Gibson has a call center somewhere in Mumbai, just have Mujabahr sign whatever form and fax it. Case Closed!

bad joke of day:

the reason there are so many call centers in developing countries is because they are only allowed to put one English question on the application.

"make a sentence with the words, Green, pink, and yellow." ( scroll for answer)










"The phone goes GREEN, GREEN, I PINK it up and say YELLOW, this is Mujabahr, how can I help you?"

The US is made up of such tolerant people.

I meant no offence, If I offended you I apologize. It is IT humor.

I know it was in bad taste, but the absurdity of the whole thing is that a company as old as Gibson can't see the forest for the trees so to speak.

Taylor Guitars has worked extremely hard to partner with villages and governments to secure sustainable sources of wood that directly benefits the locals who care for the trees.

Bob Taylor knew that the current way of harvesting wood was unsustainable. How can a young "upstart" guitar builder see what's coming and a giant like Gibson make all the wrong decisions?

I hope a new innovative company rises from these ashes.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think US jobs should be handed out to people in other countries like candy on Halloween, but I also don't think the racist remarks are needed, either.

Did I miss it ? I do not see a race mention above ?

I have many friends that do not have English as their first language. Most of them joke about this stuff also .... but making fun of people stupid enough to not understand the world is made of a lot of different kind of people.

 

[squank]

Don't get me wrong, I don't think US jobs should be handed out to people in other countries like candy on Halloween, but I also don't think the racist remarks are needed, either.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see how making a joke about an accent is automatically racist.

 

[Searay]

Having travelled many times to low cost regions to source goods for corporate America, I find it sickening that the US gov't, struggling to facilitate employment, would apply so many resources to what appears to be legal trade. These countries are not rice patties and bamboo hats, they are laughing all the way to the bank, daily.

 

[Scuba200ft]

Racist?

If youre going to call somebody a racist, you better have a good reason.

I dont see one here.