Fractal Audio Axe-fx +, -, ? and now Kemper KPA has arrived.

[dav2321]

It's easy -don't buy one-quit bitchin'. Done and done.

 

[steve_k]

That was an objective post....fair and balanced reporting. Why would it get deleted?

Steve thanks for the compliment.

I hope it is possible to have some unbiased opinions and experiences from other users about this topic. At least free of depedency and emotions.

Mark I understand your concern but my intend is not to troll. BTW you got me into the AFX and I am still greatfull for that.

Things have been a little........tense here lately with the Axe II business. Mark is just trying keep another thread from going off the rails, as they have gotten ugly.

Anyway, speaking of DADA............what the hell ever happened to the band? They had some cool stuff out in the 90's and I used to listen to them all the time.

Steve

 

[Tone Merchant]

I sold it for the same price I bought it for, I didn't make any money on it. I am using Reaper on a MAC, never had issues with it before. That said I didn't spend a lot of time troubleshooting it.
That wasn't the main reason for selling the unit. I thought the new unit was an improvement in sound but not so much to sell the Ultra.
I have a lot of presets that I realized I would have to build over again in the II. My point was that once the dust settles and the Axe Edit is released and a converter from Ultra presets to Axe II then it would
make more sense to upgrade. I already have the mixer for the phones and the audio interface so those options were not really factored in to this.
I think with any new product there is going to be de-bugging. It's not Fractals fault as the beta testers can only catch some of the issues. The general public user base catches the rest.

just to clarify, u sold the axe 2 and kept the ultra after u just stated the Axe 2 sounded better?

 

[biggness]

Things have been a little........tense here lately with the Axe II business. Mark is just trying keep another thread from going off the rails, as they have gotten ugly.

Anyway, speaking of DADA............what the hell ever happened to the band? They had some cool stuff out in the 90's and I used to listen to them all the time.

Steve

 

[AxeGrinder]

I sold it for the same price I bought it for, I didn't make any money on it. I am using Reaper on a MAC, never had issues with it before. That said I didn't spend a lot of time troubleshooting it.
That wasn't the main reason for selling the unit. I thought the new unit was an improvement in sound but not so much to sell the Ultra.
I have a lot of presets that I realized I would have to build over again in the II. My point was that once the dust settles and the Axe Edit is released and a converter from Ultra presets to Axe II then it would
make more sense to upgrade. I already have the mixer for the phones and the audio interface so those options were not really factored in to this.
I think with any new product there is going to be de-bugging. It's not Fractals fault as the beta testers can only catch some of the issues. The general public user base catches the rest.

just to clarify, u sold the axe 2 and kept the ultra after u just stated the Axe 2 sounded better?

It didn't sound that much better to the point it was worth it to me. I have a lot of time invested in the Ultra. I don't buy the "it blows the Ultra out of the water" reviews. That's BS. The Axe II
seemed like the base models had a better starting point than the Ultra and required less tweaking.
I also didn't think it was that much of a jump in quality that it was worth it to me to redo all my patches.

 

[gibson5413]

The Axe II
seemed like the base models had a better starting point than the Ultra and required less tweaking.

If I was to buy a new Axe that would be worth it if I wasn't much of a tweaker. The hidden implication I am reading is that the learning curve may not be as steep with the Axe II. That would be enough to sway me. It all comes down to the user.

 

[Mark Day]

I had the fortunate advantage that I actually got to try the AxeII before ordering. In my opinion it is a significant improvement over the Ultra. You may call that BS, but that is my opinion just like your opinion is that it is not that much of an improvement. People will be on both sides of the fence, personal opinions only and not necessarily BS on either side of the fence.

I will keep my Ultra because it will make a very reliable upgrade to the G Major II that I currently have in my OD100's rack. I have had bad luck with that unit and other TC units in the past. I must report that TC has graciously answered my email this morning and will have another crack at repairing my G MajorII.

Mark

 

[AxeGrinder]

The Axe II
seemed like the base models had a better starting point than the Ultra and required less tweaking.

If I was to buy a new Axe that would be worth it if I wasn't much of a tweaker. The hidden implication I am reading is that the learning curve may not be as steep with the Axe II. That would be enough to sway me. It all comes down to the user.

I totally agree, for a new user this is ideal. You don't have to buy an audio interface, Mixer for headphone use and it's easier to dial it. If you already have that investment with the Ultra setup and your used to the tweaking aspect then it's not that much of an upgrade.

 

[gibson5413]

I will keep my Ultra because it will make a very reliable upgrade to the G Major II that I currently have in my OD100's rack. I have had bad luck with that unit and other TC units in the past. I must report that TC has graciously answered my email this morning and will have another crack at repairing my G MajorII.

Mark

At this point, why don't they just replace it? I can't believe it is going under the knife again. Don't they know who you are??

 

[Mark Day]

At this point, why don't they just replace it? I can't believe it is going under the knife again. Don't they know who you are??

They know exactly who I am...nobody, lol.

Mark

 

[R.D.]

Ya know ..., I'm beginning to be pretty sympathetic to some of the O.P.'s gripes ....

I wrote a huge epistle about it and then decided not to post because I didn't want the "$#!T" storm over there either ....

Seems to me Fractal has hit another home run with a product that was/is already head 'n' shoulders better than the closest competitor. But ( IMHO ) the marketing/distribution strategy leaves a lot to be desired .... It almost seems to be a bit biased against the longest term customers or early adopters ! And I always thought those were the customers you wanted to cultivate and protect ! That's what spreads the word ( of mouth ) about just how great the product and company really are ? At least that's what I used to think .... O.K., call me naive ! Whatever ....

I'm sure that Fractal has got to be frustrated by it all too .... But it doesn't help that lately he's started making snide comments about putting the wating list on Toilet Paper ... ? Again IMHO ..., he's provoking the type of behavior he's railing against ....

I can't be 100% sure, but I think it's drawing a huge amount of heat because it's so contrary to how other boutique mfgs have handled it .... I mean really !

Has any other company started a waiting list, and then offered the product to people who want to 'cut' the line for a premium price ?

I've been buying from companies in this market niche for well over 10 years and I couldn’t think of any ?

Can you ?

 

[electronpirate]

After owning an Ultra for more then 1,5 year I thought sharing some experience. Because this post would be deleted immediately from the Fractal Forum I am forced to post it here and other not FAS controlled sites.

This is my personal opinion and is no statement in any kind.

The Good
- Breakthrough product no doubt, but every new customer should be warned. The learning curve to get a decent sound out this apparatus is steep and long for the average guitar dude. It is like doing a study computer programming but then without a teacher. Is that a problem NO but be sure, despite the AFX Wiki, that you are willing to spend a huge amount of time trying to learn the thing. And believe me in the end you will only use a handful of its possibilities.
- It works great with the MFC-101.
- With the right equipment it sounds really good and it is very flexible.
- The company continuously improves the software.
- Some helpful users on the forum.

The Bad
- The price is completely over the top. OK back in 2008 it was ground breaking technology and it was a small company with a low turnover. But with the AFX II the price had to come down.
- To get your complete rig with active wedges or amp and cabs plus the MFC-101 you can buy a very nice new car. It is very very expensive so be warned.
- Seeing it as a computer (which it basically is) the AFX II is an upgrade from one processor to two processors and some hardware upgrades and new software. The Ultra would also be possible to host the new software when some unused possibilities were dumped from the eprom.
- Lifetime updates was by me and others interpreted as long as I lived. That was dumb thinking because updates for the Standard and Ultra stopped on the moment the new AFX came out. So the 11R solution is not that bad.
- No instructional DVD or official Youtube help to get you going faster. Or a country based helpline (dreaming).

The Ugly
- Unreliable customer relations. The launching of the II is a complete disaster and a misuse of the huge demand by increasing the price even further.
- The forum in itself is a good direct marketing tool. BUT having moderators and administrators that continuously piss, preach and laugh at people is the best way to ruin your own business.
- To get the full advantages via FRFR you will need the best and therefore the most expensive solutions available. This means at least $4000 -5000 per wedge.

The Cure
- Act like a professional company and not like a bunch of techies. Switch form the customer is a looser attitude to customer is always right attitude. GET HELP!
- Exchange some moderators with some with better attitude towards your customers.
- Steep up production. The longer people have to wait the larger the chance is they turn away.
- Lower the price of the next product line. Better would be to lower the AFXII price and stand for the consequences doing so.
- Stop with tube based amplification as a side product. This makes the “no tube” solution you preach with the AFX unreliable.

Hmm.

As someone who spends quite a bit of time over on the Fractal Board, I'll address DADA on a few things. DISCLAIMER: I am a moderator on the Fractal Board.

1. He's TOTALLY entitled to his opinion...it's the way you express your opinion that matters. It was not done well by any stretch of the imagination on his part on the board.
2. It's not for Fractal to 'warn' people about the complexity of the product. There are ample resources (including the board) that can help an average user (which I am, or was when I 1st purchased BTW). Does Mesa 'warn' that it might be difficult to dial in tone?
3. Price? Really? The processors alone eat up much of the expense. This is a non-issue.
4. Lifetime updates ARE guaranteed. Don't mistake 'updates' with 'bug fixes'. Those will be fixed, but constant changes? Just not possible with the Gen 1 hardware.
5. The forum NEVER started out as a marketing tool (take it from one who's been there from the start.) It was to HELP those like me who struggled mightily early on, and assist Fractal establishing a dialog with users (which resulted in a huge amount of additional features and 'wish list' items..amps, functionality, etc.) Certainly it operates a partial role in marketing now as well, but it's far from it's primary role.
6. I can say with confidence that $4000 monitors are not necessary for 'best performance'.
7. Um, it IS a company of techies. I'd rather have this than a gaggle of shiny marketers and spin doctors hawking an inferior product. This doesn't mean they can't be just as professional.
8. The Axe II debacle is a question of planning. In many ways Fractal was TOO open about the launch. When Cliff would say 'probably able to roll them out this date', it was interpreted as 'Ooh, on that date 1000 units will be ready, and will ship same day!' Supposition became FACT in many people's view, and it snowballed. Sure, we can drop this on Fractal as 'their fault', but it still is only about a small company who underestimated the amount of fanaticism that a new release would generate.
9. From a moderator standpoint, we saw the tone of the board go from good to VERY UGLY in a short amount of time. People with 4 posts to their names threatening, venting, claiming immediate entitlement. We did our best to control that and get it back to 'US' rather than 'US vs. THEM' (Fractal.) You are welcome to disagree on how well we are doing that.
10. If you don't like the price, don't buy. Simple as that. Gear costs money. Making this some sort of 'black mark' on Fractal is flat out incorrect.
11. Production is proceeding as quickly as they can POSSIBLY do things. To assume that Fractal is somehow just sitting around eating Dove bars rather than do business is a bit...ridiculous.

Last point:
As moderators, we worked with MANY people to slow the tide of vitriol. You, as well DADA, had a dialog with various mods and admins to slow you down, you however, decided early on that you just wanted to cause a shitstorm and wouldn't be turned aside from that. Don't take the attitude of 'just a reasonable guy who has an opinion'...it just aint true.

 

[R.D.]

8. The Axe II debacle is a question of planning. In many ways Fractal was TOO open about the launch. When Cliff would say 'probably able to roll them out this date', it was interpreted as 'Ooh, on that date 1000 units will be ready, and will ship same day!' Supposition became FACT in many people's view, and it snowballed. Sure, we can drop this on Fractal as 'their fault', but it still is only about a small company who underestimated the amount of fanaticism that a new release would generate.
9. From a moderator standpoint, we saw the tone of the board go from good to VERY UGLY in a short amount of time. People with 4 posts to their names threatening, venting, claiming immediate entitlement. We did our best to control that and get it back to 'US' rather than 'US vs. THEM' (Fractal.) You are welcome to disagree on how well we are doing that.

I’ll take issue with these two points …, but first I do want to tell ‘electronpirate’ that I think he is one of the most even handed moderators that are over at the Fractal Forum ….

But that said, I do disagree with his opinion that Fractal was “too open” …. IMHO they had somewhat backed themselves into a corner ( read: no choice ) because of the way they had executed the Axe-II countdown !

And I might add, the timing of that relative to the arrival of the parts for the final assembly and testing was completely of their own choosing !

And the only reason anyone interpreted it the way you’ve stated is because Fractal also said repeatedly …. “Chillax, there’ll be enough units to go around”, or words to that effect !

So IF supposition became FACT it’s only because Fractal supported it that way, with half-statements that in hindsight could be open to large amounts of interpretation !

So yes I absolutely CAN drop it on Fractal as ‘their fault’, and I’d further submit that they had an ample amount of HISTORY to learn from ( ie; the MFC-101 release ) which went the exact same way … !

Finally the reason you’re seeing so many ‘new’ forum members being upset is because of the point I raised in the post above yours ….

( IMHO ) the marketing/distribution strategy that Fractal came up with didn’t take into account the market niche’ that they’re selling too …. What other boutique gear maker has released a product , then started a waiting list, and finally offered the product to people who want to 'cut' the line for a premium price ?

I've been buying from boutique gear companies for well over 10 years and I couldn’t think of any ?

So I ask again, can you ?

Plus, like I said before …, I'm sure that Fractal frustrated as well …, but he’s mad at the forum members for a situation that he had a HUGE hand in creating.

At this point, he’s starting to become his own worst enemy. Sure he’s built a better ( read: MUCH better ) mousetrap and people are beating a path to his door ( including me ) !

But that tide will immediately flow the opposite direction when ( not if ) someone finally figures out a way to one-up him ….

 

[blackba]

 

[Dr. Swamp]

11. Production is proceeding as quickly as they can POSSIBLY do things. To assume that Fractal is somehow just sitting around eating Dove bars rather than do business is a bit...ridiculous.

This made me laugh. Both the image of Cliff sitting around eating Dove bars while fanatics try to buy his product, but more so the idea that someone actually believes that production is currently being done in the best and quickest way possible. Wow.

 

[electronpirate]

11. Production is proceeding as quickly as they can POSSIBLY do things. To assume that Fractal is somehow just sitting around eating Dove bars rather than do business is a bit...ridiculous.

This made me laugh. Both the image of Cliff sitting around eating Dove bars while fanatics try to buy his product, but more so the idea that someone actually believes that production is currently being done in the best and quickest way possible. Wow.

Hey, Dove bars rock. Don't get me started.

Out of curiosity tho, how do you know that production ISN'T being done in the best and quickest way possible? Please don't tell me you get your information off of chat boards solely. Without overstepping, I can say that a number of issues came up that had NOTHING to do with Fractal...however, I consider them pretty fookin' noble for not sliding around the responsibility, and letting folks on these boards bitch at THEM...not other entities.

Listen, I'm not saying it wasn't a mess...it was. But everyone tends to 'armchair CEO' on everything from equipment to production, when they can stand outside and say 'why wasn't it done MY way?' 'I can fix it'. Like just ramping up production is simplicity itself. I predict (based off of NO inside information at all) that by July 6th, the majority of the wait list will be gone. That will put Cliff one month past his very estimated 'will hit the stores' date. All this screaming, impatience, and hair pulling over 30 days...

Ron

 

[Dr. Swamp]

I don't think the 30 days has anything to do with it. You're glossing over people's real issues with it. The sitting on websites refreshing constantly, hoping to buy one. The multiple wait lists, with little communication on how they were being handled, and the post above's issue with offering a bypass to the lists?

 

[R.D.]

I predict (based off of NO inside information at all) that by July 6th, the majority of the wait list will be gone. That will put Cliff one month past his very estimated 'will hit the stores' date. All this screaming, impatience, and hair pulling over 30 days...

Ron ...,

I'll take a 'handshake' bet on that ..., and if history is any indicator I'll win this one ....

When Fractal rolled-out the MFC-101 I got on the wait list ( and was in the top 50 ) on 2/7/2009 ( confirmed by Danielle ) .... I finally received my o.k. to purchase and use my $ 100 off coupon on 4/20/2011 ( 802 days later ) ....

Granted that waiting list was started almost 18 months before the MFC-101 was even released. But even after the release ( lets say approx. July 1st 2010 ), it was an additional 293 days after the release that I finally received my coupon ....

This time around I'm in the top 35 *( as of now unconfirmed by Fractal ), I highly doubt that ( with the line-jumping still going strong ), there's any chance I'll receive my coupon in the next 6 days !!!!

 

[Mark Day]

I hear the iPhone 5 will be released in Sept. along with the iPad 3. I really want the iPhone 5. I wonder how well that will go...lol



Mark

 

[R.D.]

I hear the iPhone 5 will be released in Sept. along with the iPad 3. I really want the iPhone 5. I wonder how well that will go...lol

Well ..., Apple is not Fractal .... But ..., neither are they the sharpest tack in the drawer when it comes to new product releases ....

GOOD LUCK !