Fret Job - UPDATE!

[jkdsteve]

UPDATE: I put the update at the top here....I casually enquired with the dealer about Washburn warranty and he basically said "ship it here" and I'll take care of it....this is just a nice reminder of why I shop there

















OK, to cut a long story short..bought a guitar (N4) last year, barely played it and up until last week..basically figured it was a mint guitar. You can't even see any wear on it...anywhere!

Apparently it has a few fret problems (poor job from teh factory?)...couple of low frets or so along with some other helpful observations from people whom I'm not convinced weren't just flat out rip off merchants....

The symptoms are dead spots when you try and lower the action and it's possible to pin it down to certain string on a certain fret.

What is the normal procedure here? Replace the offending frets and then level 'em?

What are my options on getting this guitar into a playable condition?

Does anyone know someone they trust implicitly (NorCal preferred) for this kind of work?

Could it (should it) be Plek'd??

Complication is that the guitar is not in my possession, as I sold it last week without knowing about any of these issues.. I had simply put new set of strings on it..lowered the action slightly and it was playable....for the few hours it even got played since it was bought....spent more time in my office looking pretty! I upgraded the pickup in it also...but heck, that don't affect the frets!

EDIT: Pls note I fully intend to refund the purchase..there's no way anyone should have to put up with this in a guitar...I just want to work out how to get this guitar in playable condition... I have *zero clue* about fret work and am basically devastated morale and financially by this turn of events.....heck if someone wishes to take it on at a discount price..just ask

 

[glpg80]

you dont want to invest in the tools to do it yourself.

there really is no half ass way to get around dead frets or grooves in them.

you can replace just the offending frets but thats not ideal and its not common practice at all. plus it is much more tedious work to level one single fret by hand without taking off more than a few .001's around it.

and also, there is usually a reason it has off frets. either the ends are curling causing the middle of the fret to "rise" making it almost impossible to set the action correctly, the truss rod is set incorrectly, the neck bolts are too tight or not tight enough, there is significant wear elsewhere in the fretboard from repetative playing styles, the angle of the neck is off by a few degrees (necks are supposed to be angled downward. i forget the exact amount and im not sure on the different N4 design), poor concentration of nickel/steel quality from the factory fret wire (supposed to be a 10% or less mix) causing fret wear pre-maturely, and last but not least, the frets were installed incorrectly from the factory with the tang's too tight on the fretboard, causing the neck to "bow" forward from the added tension of 22+frets.

you can take it to a tech and have them fret level, and if it is someone safe you know then they might be able to fix the problem without making the fret's too small.

there is also the hastle of using diamond crowning tools to recrown the neck, then there is the added polishing stage. so refrets take ALOT of time to perfect.

i only tackle a refret when i know i have the time to do it properly. not to mention the time involved with the tools. contact a local luthier that you can trust and have them do the work. thats probably the easiest thing to do.

best of luck either way, its a shame such a guitar would need such work done to it. i expected that from my japanese 1989 charvel, but not from something like an N4.

good luck bro.

-matt

 

[stratotone]

I totally don't get the 'neck bolts are too loose or tight' thing the previous poster put on here...

First thing I'd do is contact washburn, find out what the factory specs are for string height. If this guy is trying to set the action lower than this, then that's too bad, not your problem.

Here's what could be happening if there is an issue - my info is from doing my own fretwork and shadowing a real luthier:

1) Could be a truss rod adjustment only. First thing I'd check. If so, you're lookiing at a setup.
2) Could be a loose fret. Fret ends can come up and cause stuff like this. Pretty minor fix for a decent repair shop.
3) Could be a warped neck. Again, good repair shop should be able to see this pretty fast. If so, they MIGHT be able to put a heat press on the neck, or take the frets off, replane the fingerboard and refret it. Or just replace the neck.
4) Could be a slightly iffy fretjob - depending on how bad it is, could have a 'grind and polish' - basically they set up the neck to be as straight as possible with strings off, file all the frets to the same level (with fallaway on the higher frets) and then reshape the tops to be rounded.

My advice: Get a referral here for a luthier in that person's area - *you* call the luthier, tell him you're paying the bill, explain what's up and that you want a price for a diagnosis of the problem. Contact the buyer, tell him to take it there, and deal with the luthier directly.

Pete

 

[1big1]

while i'm not a luthier.. i do my own set up work and work on my friends instruments. i would start by evaluating the set up as the others have mentioned. sometimes all that's needed is a simple adjustment.. other times not. i've remedied similar problems on a couple of instruments i have with a few basic set up tools and a bit of patience.
find a luthier you trust to do an evaluation.. but remember there are just as many bad luthiers as there are bad techs.. so who you pick is important. good luck.

 

[tweed]

Is the guitar still in Sactown? If so there are 2 techs that in town that could handle this no sweat. Jeremy Nellis at Roseville Guitar Works, and the tech at Skips'(whose name escapes me as it's 5am and the coffee hasn't kicked in yet).

 

[Digital Jams]

I totally don't get the 'neck bolts are too loose or tight' thing the previous poster put on here...

First thing I'd do is contact washburn, find out what the factory specs are for string height. If this guy is trying to set the action lower than this, then that's too bad, not your problem.

Here's what could be happening if there is an issue - my info is from doing my own fretwork and shadowing a real luthier:

1) Could be a truss rod adjustment only. First thing I'd check. If so, you're lookiing at a setup.
2) Could be a loose fret. Fret ends can come up and cause stuff like this. Pretty minor fix for a decent repair shop.
3) Could be a warped neck. Again, good repair shop should be able to see this pretty fast. If so, they MIGHT be able to put a heat press on the neck, or take the frets off, replane the fingerboard and refret it. Or just replace the neck.
4) Could be a slightly iffy fretjob - depending on how bad it is, could have a 'grind and polish' - basically they set up the neck to be as straight as possible with strings off, file all the frets to the same level (with fallaway on the higher frets) and then reshape the tops to be rounded.

My advice: Get a referral here for a luthier in that person's area - *you* call the luthier, tell him you're paying the bill, explain what's up and that you want a price for a diagnosis of the problem. Contact the buyer, tell him to take it there, and deal with the luthier directly.

Pete

This seems to be the best answer and Tweed offered up some good techs.

You said that the guitar was not used much, did you oil the fretboard at any time? I know you do not get the humidity that I do in CT but frets can start moving around during board contractions. It is common esp on maple boards when the weather is dry.

 

[chunktone]

I totally don't get the 'neck bolts are too loose or tight' thing the previous poster put on here...

First thing I'd do is contact washburn, find out what the factory specs are for string height. If this guy is trying to set the action lower than this, then that's too bad, not your problem.

Here's what could be happening if there is an issue - my info is from doing my own fretwork and shadowing a real luthier:

1) Could be a truss rod adjustment only. First thing I'd check. If so, you're lookiing at a setup.
2) Could be a loose fret. Fret ends can come up and cause stuff like this. Pretty minor fix for a decent repair shop.
3) Could be a warped neck. Again, good repair shop should be able to see this pretty fast. If so, they MIGHT be able to put a heat press on the neck, or take the frets off, replane the fingerboard and refret it. Or just replace the neck.
4) Could be a slightly iffy fretjob - depending on how bad it is, could have a 'grind and polish' - basically they set up the neck to be as straight as possible with strings off, file all the frets to the same level (with fallaway on the higher frets) and then reshape the tops to be rounded.

My advice: Get a referral here for a luthier in that person's area - *you* call the luthier, tell him you're paying the bill, explain what's up and that you want a price for a diagnosis of the problem. Contact the buyer, tell him to take it there, and deal with the luthier directly.

Pete

This seems to be the best answer and Tweed offered up some good techs.

You said that the guitar was not used much, did you oil the fretboard at any time? I know you do not get the humidity that I do in CT but frets can start moving around during board contractions. It is common esp on maple boards when the weather is dry.

All of the above is good advice. I would add that Suhr Guitars offers the PLEK process for a very reasonable price. You may be able to get away with just a basic setup though.

 

[tweed]

There is a shop in Roseville with a Plek machine if you choose to go that route. Just an FYI for ya.

 

[jkdsteve]

I totally don't get the 'neck bolts are too loose or tight' thing the previous poster put on here...

First thing I'd do is contact washburn, find out what the factory specs are for string height. If this guy is trying to set the action lower than this, then that's too bad, not your problem.

Here's what could be happening if there is an issue - my info is from doing my own fretwork and shadowing a real luthier:

1) Could be a truss rod adjustment only. First thing I'd check. If so, you're lookiing at a setup.
2) Could be a loose fret. Fret ends can come up and cause stuff like this. Pretty minor fix for a decent repair shop.
3) Could be a warped neck. Again, good repair shop should be able to see this pretty fast. If so, they MIGHT be able to put a heat press on the neck, or take the frets off, replane the fingerboard and refret it. Or just replace the neck.
4) Could be a slightly iffy fretjob - depending on how bad it is, could have a 'grind and polish' - basically they set up the neck to be as straight as possible with strings off, file all the frets to the same level (with fallaway on the higher frets) and then reshape the tops to be rounded.

My advice: Get a referral here for a luthier in that person's area - *you* call the luthier, tell him you're paying the bill, explain what's up and that you want a price for a diagnosis of the problem. Contact the buyer, tell him to take it there, and deal with the luthier directly.

Pete

I'm pretty sure the guy is telling the truth and repeating what the techs said...I'm not in any doubt of that.

I am sure the truss rod will need an adjustment (I had 10s, he has 9s)

Based on the description of teh various failure it sounds like a neck replacement job to me..although a grind and polish sounds like it would work...but clearly reduce the life of the frets somewhat.

The guitar is in no-way unusable...yeah it has high action but totally playable..but I bet if I checked intonation in the problem frets it would be way off....it's not something I'd do or certainly suspect on a 'new' guitar...yeah, I fail for being a n00b. :-/

 

[jkdsteve]

I totally don't get the 'neck bolts are too loose or tight' thing the previous poster put on here...

First thing I'd do is contact washburn, find out what the factory specs are for string height. If this guy is trying to set the action lower than this, then that's too bad, not your problem.

Here's what could be happening if there is an issue - my info is from doing my own fretwork and shadowing a real luthier:

1) Could be a truss rod adjustment only. First thing I'd check. If so, you're lookiing at a setup.
2) Could be a loose fret. Fret ends can come up and cause stuff like this. Pretty minor fix for a decent repair shop.
3) Could be a warped neck. Again, good repair shop should be able to see this pretty fast. If so, they MIGHT be able to put a heat press on the neck, or take the frets off, replane the fingerboard and refret it. Or just replace the neck.
4) Could be a slightly iffy fretjob - depending on how bad it is, could have a 'grind and polish' - basically they set up the neck to be as straight as possible with strings off, file all the frets to the same level (with fallaway on the higher frets) and then reshape the tops to be rounded.

My advice: Get a referral here for a luthier in that person's area - *you* call the luthier, tell him you're paying the bill, explain what's up and that you want a price for a diagnosis of the problem. Contact the buyer, tell him to take it there, and deal with the luthier directly.

Pete

This seems to be the best answer and Tweed offered up some good techs.

You said that the guitar was not used much, did you oil the fretboard at any time? I know you do not get the humidity that I do in CT but frets can start moving around during board contractions. It is common esp on maple boards when the weather is dry.

Ebony board and it was oiled once...after the only string change it had..that's how little it has been played...one string change in a year....my main guitar I change every 3 months (and that;s just from my noodling at home!)

 

[jkdsteve]

Is the guitar still in Sactown? If so there are 2 techs that in town that could handle this no sweat. Jeremy Nellis at Roseville Guitar Works, and the tech at Skips'(whose name escapes me as it's 5am and the coffee hasn't kicked in yet).

There is a shop in Roseville with a Plek machine if you choose to go that route. Just an FYI for ya.

Tweed...thanks for chiming in man, I knew you had some experience in the area.

I'm hopefully going to get support from Washburn first and see what they say....there is clearly something less than perfect with this guitar...I just fail for not noticing.

My posts are all over the board from when I bought the guitar a year ago but oddly Washburn claims the guitar is 3 years old....what a clusterfuck.... :-(

 

[stratotone]

Steve, have a luthier look at it and get you a written quote. There are way too many well meaning but misguided folks that could be giving advice on this guitar to your purchaser and you.

Also, if you had the truss rod set up properly for .010s and he put .09s on it, the neck could be backbowed slightly (less pull from the strings, which means the neck won't have as much relief) which could easily cause fretting out - generally I notice it on the first few frets when that happens.

Pete

 

[jkdsteve]

Steve, have a luthier look at it and get you a written quote. There are way too many well meaning but misguided folks that could be giving advice on this guitar to your purchaser and you.

Also, if you had the truss rod set up properly for .010s and he put .09s on it, the neck could be backbowed slightly (less pull from the strings, which means the neck won't have as much relief) which could easily cause fretting out - generally I notice it on the first few frets when that happens.

Pete

I'm a gonna make sure he adjusted the truss rod...but if you take a straight edge against the frets (was my suggestion)....if a fret or two appear low..the bow isn't going to make a huge difference to that is it?

I usually associate neck bow problems below around the 6th 'ish fret...but have never had one that bad...from memory I think the problems are around the 7th, 8th or 9 fret but he problem is not necessarily the whole fret either...affects two or three strings only (sorry if I didn't say that..) which could be a bad fret job, wear (which I'm totally ruling out) or a twisted neck (if it was the remainder of the guitar past that point I s'pose?)

I have to re-iterate, I'm 99.99% sure this guy knows how to set-up a floyd guitar...we went through everything....because at first I was concerned with the humidity and temperature change between Sactown and San Fran...heck if the neck was marginal when new, all of it could've been caused by that (neck shifting....fretboard problems) right?

 

[stratotone]

Steve -

Here's my 5 cents on truss rod adjustment. Hope it helps.

Hold the low e string down at the first and last frets. Use this as your straightedge and look for a gap between the top of the frets and the bottom of the E string. Should be a small gap around the middle of the neck - most people like this to be around .009 or so - the thickness of a high E string. This is a very slight amount of neck bow. If your neck was perfectly straight, it would buzz horribly. There has to be some relief. Tighten the truss rod slightly to decrease the gap, loosen it to increase.

Also check the high E string side - if there is a lot of bow/space on one E string and none on the other, the neck is twisted and you're screwed.

 

[jkdsteve]

Steve -

Here's my 5 cents on truss rod adjustment. Hope it helps.

Hold the low e string down at the first and last frets. Use this as your straightedge and look for a gap between the top of the frets and the bottom of the E string. Should be a small gap around the middle of the neck - most people like this to be around .009 or so - the thickness of a high E string. This is a very slight amount of neck bow. If your neck was perfectly straight, it would buzz horribly. There has to be some relief. Tighten the truss rod slightly to decrease the gap, loosen it to increase.

I pretty much do this and check at varying spots...like hold 'em down at fret 15 and look for the bow around the 6th or 7th fret...this guitar had no bow issues...at least on the bottom E with the regular slinkies

Also check the high E string side - if there is a lot of bow/space on one E string and none on the other, the neck is twisted and you're screwed.

I've never checked a guitar at the 'other side' so to speak.....no way to check it now..LOL

 

[jkdsteve]

Bump for update....as soon as I can get my guitar back, looks like my dealer will take care of it with Washburn...they rock!

 

[stratotone]

Glad to hear it! Sorry you have to take it back... just shows again you're a stand up guy. Maybe you can get more for it if it has a new neck from Washburn!

Pete

 

[Digital Jams]

Cool deal