Gil Yaron 59 Replica Headstock Repair

[joepete77]

I have to agree with him on the case... Have shipped and had shipped to me LPs with crappy cases and NO broken headstocks... However Gil, i made sure that every guitar was supported at the headstock. Just some damn bubble wrap is all that is needed. It stops the headstock from flexing if dropped.

Yeah, but either foam inserts and or bubble wrap would without a doubt better protect the guitar, not to mention that the box it shipped in has not much room for cushion and should have been then double boxed in a larger box with bubble wrap or peanuts, etc. Especially on a brand new 11k guitar being shipped international.

 

[Superunknown]

Very glad that Gil posted his side of the story. Sounds like that he was/is more than willing to work with Steve...I really hope this all works out in the end.

I will say that I commissioned Gil to build a guitar for me a few weeks ago. He has been absolutely great to work with and has taken time to answer every single question that I have asked regarding the process, etc. I would highly recommended him to anyone.

 

[guitarmike]

To answer a bunch of questions:

- With the Gibson lawsuit, I was advised to be a little concerned of shipping the guitar out/in as there may be a Customs flag and could be confiscated.

- Gil is not covering the work. He considers his job to be done.

- I am covering the repair work and shipping.

- Gil is still making 59 Replica's. I was led to believe otherwise.

- Replacing the set neck requires a lot of work and refinishing. Same amount of time and effort to build a new one. That said, I am on my own.

- Refund not possible. He blames the shipping company. It was suggested by Gil that I make a fraudulent claim against them. What?

- I still have a couple of cards to play.

- Gil was pretty good to work with, right up until the point of final payment.

- Right now, I wouldn't let him change the strings on my fucking guitar.

- My asshole still hurts from the reaming and no lube.

My name is Gil Yaron and I am the builder of Steve's guitar posted here.
It is an unfortunate event indeed to have a snapped HS on such a beautiful guitar and I understand Steve's frustration completely.
I tried to keep away from posting anything in reply to the many accusations that were brought on this forum and a few others but I believe the line has been crossed.

I could clearly see that many of you judge me harshly based on the information provided by Steve alone but here's my side of the story.

Steve King contacted me and asked to get a guitar built.
I have presented him with all the needed info and terms, answered all his many questions and he placed his order with me directly a few months ago and got on the waiting list.
A few days later Steve cancelled the order saying that he wishes to get an earlier build slot that Cliff at DAG had already reserved.
I cancelled the order.
From this point on it was supposed to be between me and Cliff but I still got many direct custom requests from Steve which I gladly fulfilled and gave him the best service one can ask for.
When the guitar was ready to ship it got packed very well. Here's how I pack all my guitars:
* I use good quality wooden or Aluminum/ABS hard shell cases. Nothing fancy that will cost a lot to the client, but definitely a rigid case.
Steve knew he was getting a $100 case from day 1. This doesn't mean the case was not good enough for shipping, but if one believes expensive cases give better protection... think again. I've fixed broken HS on LP's that were shipped in $1000 Anvil cases.
* Any voids between the guitar body and the case are filled tightly with news paper. I fill it so tightly that the guitar can not move at all inside the case.
* Packing material is placed above the guitar body to get a tight fit against the case cover, once again, to prevent movement.
* The outer cardboard box is only there to protect the case surface! I find the triangular boxes better because it prevents the shippers to place it upside down and it clearly shows that it is a guitar. There's nothing wrong with that cardboard and it is as good as any other.
No way you can trust a box to prevent a HS break. HS breaks when the guitar is pushed hard against the top on the case as a result of a strong impact.
* I make sure to use many big "Fragile" stickers on the box
* The guitar is fully insured to cover my cost in case of a total loss so a new one can be built
* I ship with a trusted shipper that has served me for the last few years with no issues

It didn't look like that on the inside

or like that on the outside

Not sure if the box had been opened for inspection or otherwise.

I've been instructed by Steve to ship the guitar to his mother in the U.S. and so I did.
Steve told me he will have it shipped to Saudi Arabia himself. I warned him about that and told him to do a local pickup since I never had any experience with guitars going there and it's better to minimize the potential risk that exists with ant guitar shipping. I even invited him to stay with me and my family while he's in Israel.

Guitar arrived to the U.S. and that was the last thing I could be responsible for. Anything that happened after that is a puzzle to me.
I shipped a large number of guitars worldwide with the same cases and boxes and with the same packing method and shipper with no issues except for a few very minor damages in the Italian customs which are well known for that (-; Never a broken HS or anything that happens as a result of a shifting guitar inside the case.

The first thing I did after I got an email from Steve about the broken HS was to call him.

Didn't take too long to figure out what happened.
1) No damage to the case
2) No damage to the outer cardboard box
This could only mean that the box has been dropped or fell very hard flat on its head.
I had the feeling that the inner packing material has been messed during inspection at some point. I know it's done properly by the U.S. customs but not so sure about what exactly going on in Saudi Arabia. I asked steve and he told me there are no signs of inspection tape anywhere. My next question was about the insurance. I was completely shocked to hear that the guitar wasn't insured for it's actual value. Steve told me he wanted to save on import taxes. That is a big mistake for such an expensive guitar and a big legal risk trying to fool the foreign authorities.
Steve asked if it can be fixed and I told him that it would be better to build a new one. I don't like to reuse a fingerboard that has been heat removed or do finish touchups and since I need to make the neck from scratch and do the entire prep and finishing anyway, I'd rather make a new guitar altogether.
Steve suggested that he will immediately ship the guitar back to the U.S. implying to get an insurance claim to cover his loss.
I told him that he shouldn't do it. Instead, I told him to do the right thing and contact his own shipper and try to get the lower amount claimed so we would at least have something back. I also promised to take good care of him and to make sure he'll be happy so no need to do anything irrational and add more mistakes to the list.
Steve agreed.

While Steve was supposed to take care of the claim within the short time frame it required, I immediately contacted Cliff at DAG (to remind you, Steve ordered the guitar from Cliff), and explained him the situation.
We had every intension to take good care of Steve as a valued customer and that included a FULL REFUND!!! regardless of his major mistake of not insuring the guitar while shipped to Saudi Arabia.
I never told Steve that I "consider my work to be done" or refused a full refund. Never! I told him I'll make sure to take good care of him and to keep him happy.

Anyway... I never heard back from Steve since that first and only phone conversation... only seen the public online posts.

Steve had a different plan. Instead of contacting me to follow through the issue and get a full refund or a new guitar he shipped the guitar to a 3rd party to be fixed and spoke to Cliff about getting compensation and keeping the first guitar as well (maybe trying to end up with 2 instruments?). Not sure exactly what he said to Cliff but I never heard Cliff so angry and disappointed (and Cliff is a great guy).

I don't feel I need to prove anything to anybody regarding my deep concern about having the highest customer service level and about building the best instruments I possibly can as there are many people out there that can testify that.

Regardless of the low language, coursing and bashing I had received from Steve online during the last few days I chose not to react and let him come to his senses but I can't stand lies and dishonesty, not to mention trying to scare my other clients away (not working BTW).

* There is no Gibson lawsuit.
* My cases are as good as any others (be it Warwick, Gator or any other brand I find sufficient for shipping) - once again... there was zero damage to the case and box!
* I never told Steve that I will not fully refund him (regardless of his insurance mistake)
* Steve never spoke to me about how we are going to solve his problem
* Guitars are packed very well by me and I make sure they are safe for international shipping
* All warning Fragile signs have been removed from the box and nor replaced (They had hebrew and English which Steve didn't want seen in Saudi Arabis ??)
* I fully insure my guitars to be able to build a new one if total lost
* I do not fool customs or insurance companies or shippers
* You will not find a single person among all my clients or anybody I dealt with who thinks like Steve
* I'm a proud Israeli Jew that actually values his clients more than money (-;
* My heart still hurts seeing this guitar broken like this

I can go on and on... and really tried to avoid replying because I believe this should have been discussed between Steve and myself but Steve obviously thinks otherwise and I'm very sorry for him.

I have all my cell phone calls recorded for reference including the only one I had with Steve.
I don't wish to step over anybody, especially not a customer, but Steve just took it too far.

Here's a small portion of the conversation where Steve suggests the guitar to be shipped back to the U.S. for insurance claim and my response to it.

There's a lot more in that story that Steve didn't exactly post with his story. If you are a worried client or want more info just contact me and I will answer the truth.

Have a great weekend and G_d bless you all.
Gil Yaron

I'd like to see a phone call between Steve, Gil, and a neutral 3rd party mediator to solve this. Keep the call and its contents private between Gil and Steve and let Steve or Gil post the results (not the contents) on the forum. If Gil is as good of a guy as he says he is, there will be a resolution that they both can live with.

Steve has proven time and time again that he is a decent person, now that Gil has gone public let's see if he is as good as a person as he claims to be.

 

[Seitz333]

Since Pete received his GYLP around the same time do you think we could get a comment on the quality of how his was packaged? Pete if you prefer not to get involved in this I understand, just thought since you and Steve are both respected forum members it would be another first hand experience.

FWIW, I hate that this happened to Steve's guitar, BUT IMHO I believe that once the guitar arrived in the US at Steve's mom's house it left Gil's responsibility. It should have been opened and checked there then shipped to Saudi.

Chuck

 

[Shawn Lutz]

where did the communication breakdown from "my work is done" and return for "full refund" occur?

pretty big gap there

 

[mmolteratx]

Since Pete received his GYLP around the same time do you think we could get a comment on the quality of how his was packaged? Pete if you prefer not to get involved in this I understand, just thought since you and Steve are both respected forum members it would be another first hand experience.

FWIW, I hate that this happened to Steve's guitar, BUT IMHO I believe that once the guitar arrived in the US at Steve's mom's house it left Gil's responsibility. It should have been opened and checked there then shipped to Saudi.

Chuck

From TGP:

]This is an unfortunate turn of events. I know it'll get resolved, and hopefully Gil will maybe use better cases in the future. I agree that the cases are kinda "asking for it ", I won't put my Gibson guitars with mahogany necks on planes in anything less than a real (anvil style) flight case.

However, as many have stated, the guitars are off the charts good. Mine is every bit as awesome as the best vintage LP's I've played. And I wanna geek out more on it, with you guitar geeks. So with respect to Steve, and my heart goes out to him- I would be really upset if I was him and I sincerely hope there is a silver lining to this cloud- since it's my thread, i'd request that we go back to discussing my guitar.

 

[Bob Savage]

It's always good to hear both sides of the story and I retract my emotionally charged statement made earlier in this thread. I'm usually one to say "there's 3 sides to every story," yet still responded negatively without knowing all the facts. Not taking sides even at this point, but it's obvious that something here is amiss.

Whatever the case may be, I hope this gets worked out to the benefit of all parties.

 

[AmpliFIRE]

Sorry but that guitar was not packed like a 11k guitar. We all see the cheap chainsaw case and the shitty squier triangle box.

It should have been double boxed no matter what.

Bingo!

 

[voodooradio1]

So, was the guitar in tact when it arrived at it's original shipping destination? I don't see how the builder could be held liable for any shipments beyond the original destination, that he wasn't a party to.
I'm not pointing fingers in either direction, but it does seem that all of the facts are not on the table. If we are going to convict a guy in the court of public opinion, then both parties need to lay out the evidence clearly, or either solve it in private.

 

[fretnot]

So, was the guitar in tact when it arrived at it's original shipping destination? I don't see how the builder could be held liable for any shipments beyond the original destination, that he wasn't a party to.
I'm not pointing fingers in either direction, but it does seem that all of the facts are not on the table. If we are going to convict a guy in the court of public opinion, then both parties need to lay out the evidence clearly, or either solve it in private.

Exactly. I sold an acoustic to a guy in Australia once, but it was all Brazilian rosewood and I refused to ship it directly to Australia because of CITES. The buyer agreed for me to ship it to his buddy in Washigton state and he would pick it up in person or he would ship it. I informed him that once the guitar arrived safely in Washington it was no longer my responsibity and to have his friend open the box and case and check it. I think it's horrible to have a guitar damaged in transit (it's happened to me) and I hope things get resolved one way or another. Gil is an amazing builder and an amazing human being with exemplary customer service. The Internet can be a wonderful resource for information and knowledge, but it can also drag people through the mud when there are better ways to handle an issue. I hope all parties involved end up happy, if possible.

 

[Stramm8]

It would seem that Karma is indeed a bitch...That said, if you build $10k guitars, I don't think your customers will mind popping for a $300 case and an indestructible packing job.

 

[petethorn]

Since Pete received his GYLP around the same time do you think we could get a comment on the quality of how his was packaged? Pete if you prefer not to get involved in this I understand, just thought since you and Steve are both respected forum members it would be another first hand experience.

FWIW, I hate that this happened to Steve's guitar, BUT IMHO I believe that once the guitar arrived in the US at Steve's mom's house it left Gil's responsibility. It should have been opened and checked there then shipped to Saudi.

Chuck

From TGP:

]This is an unfortunate turn of events. I know it'll get resolved, and hopefully Gil will maybe use better cases in the future. I agree that the cases are kinda "asking for it ", I won't put my Gibson guitars with mahogany necks on planes in anything less than a real (anvil style) flight case.

However, as many have stated, the guitars are off the charts good. Mine is every bit as awesome as the best vintage LP's I've played. And I wanna geek out more on it, with you guitar geeks. So with respect to Steve, and my heart goes out to him- I would be really upset if I was him and I sincerely hope there is a silver lining to this cloud- since it's my thread, i'd request that we go back to discussing my guitar.

This has all escalated to the point of being really ugly. I really wish Steve's guitar hadn't been broken, but some of the posts in this thread are unreal. There's a right way and a wrong way to do things and solve problems and in my estimation, there was a solution(s) offered by Gil and Cliff, including either a replacement guitar or a full refund- and the correct route would have been to take it. Wether or not the guitar could have been packed better, becomes irrelevant when the builder and dealer say they will take care of you via a replacement guitar or a full refund- right? I mean, it's a minor bummer to have to wait a bit longer for a guitar- but that's the only downside I can see. No big deal really....?

Trashing Gil on public forums, with some suggesting all-out campaigns to ruin his reputation, without both sides of the story, is just... terrible. This is a guy who pours his heart and soul into his instruments. He strikes me as an old world craftsman family man type, a real stand up human, that really gives a shit about quality and doing things the right way. It's why I bought a guitar from him, because I'm a freak for quality and attention to detail. And the guitar exceeds every expectation I had- it's unreal. As is evidenced here:

I really don't know what else to say. I'm sorry for Steve and his guitar, but i'm really sorry for Gil and what some have said about him, and I'm sorry this situation has gone this route, because it seems that the situation could have been rectified pretty easily.

 

[dainbramage0]

Nice to see both sides of the story. I hope everyone involved can come up with a solution to this disaster.

I've fixed broken HS on LP's that were shipped in $1000 Anvil cases.

This bit in particular seems odd to me. Gil has never had a headstock snap on him, but he has done headstock repairs on guitars that were shipped in some of the most rugged cases built? and yet still ships with minimal protection.

In comparison my KXK shipped in an ATA case just going from west to east coast and was 1/10th the price...


Having said that, it does look like Gil wants to make this right and I'm glad he spoke up.

 

[thiswaythatway]

Since Pete received his GYLP around the same time do you think we could get a comment on the quality of how his was packaged? Pete if you prefer not to get involved in this I understand, just thought since you and Steve are both respected forum members it would be another first hand experience.

FWIW, I hate that this happened to Steve's guitar, BUT IMHO I believe that once the guitar arrived in the US at Steve's mom's house it left Gil's responsibility. It should have been opened and checked there then shipped to Saudi.

Chuck

Bingo.

 

[thiswaythatway]

It's always good to hear both sides of the story and I retract my emotionally charged statement made earlier in this thread. I'm usually one to say "there's 3 sides to every story," yet still responded negatively without knowing all the facts. Not taking sides even at this point, but it's obvious that something here is amiss.

Whatever the case may be, I hope this gets worked out to the benefit of all parties.

I think the guitar was caught on video while in transit.

 

[Bob Savage]

This bit in particular seems odd to me. Gil has never had a headstock snap on him, but he has done headstock repairs on guitars that were shipped in some of the most rugged cases built? and yet still ships with minimal protection.

I see no inconsistencies here. He didn't say the guitars he repaired were guitars he shipped or even built.

This is probably about to get much nastier than it already is so I think I may just step out and see how it plays out.

 

[fretnot]

So, was the guitar in tact when it arrived at it's original shipping destination? I don't see how the builder could be held liable for any shipments beyond the original destination, that he wasn't a party to.
I'm not pointing fingers in either direction, but it does seem that all of the facts are not on the table. If we are going to convict a guy in the court of public opinion, then both parties need to lay out the evidence clearly, or either solve it in private.

Exactly. I sold an acoustic to a guy in Australia once, but it was all Brazilian rosewood and I refused to ship it directly to Australia because of CITES. The buyer agreed for me to ship it to his buddy in Washigton state and he would pick it up in person or he would ship it. I informed him that once the guitar arrived safely in Washington it was no longer my responsibity and to have his friend open the box and case and check it. I think it's horrible to have a guitar damaged in transit (it's happened to me) and I hope things get resolved one way or another. Gil is an amazing builder and an amazing human being with exemplary customer service. The Internet can be a wonderful resource for information and knowledge, but it can also drag people through the mud when there are better ways to handle an issue. I hope all parties involved end up happy, if possible.

Hey guy with 3 total posts..
did you see how it was shipped? maybe he should build some amazing shipping cases since he is so brilliant?

So my post count is relevant to the conversation or makes my post less valid? I insulted no one and wished for a positive outcome to all parties.

 

[dannyr]

I was reading thru this for the first time, and was thinking I'd sure like to hear the other side to this story. Well here it is. Very interesting indeed.

 

[Anonymous]

Wow... That sounds absolutely incredible. Exactly what I'd want a Les Paul to sound like. And you, Pete, are exactly the right kind of excellent player to do it justice... Congratulations - I know you'll make a ton of music with it...

On another note, I'm glad Gil dropped by and told his side. He's always been amazingly willing to help others and has posted the most amazing build threads answering any detailed questions thrown his way.

This thread shows why it's not a good idea to comment based on hearing only one side of the story, which we're all guilty of here because we all know Steve and are sympathetic to his situation based on what happened to the guitar and his account. There seems to be some major miscommunication here and some mistakes made on both sides based on hearing each tell their story, but I really hope both sides can come together and work this out. Any other result and further nastiness would be a real shame...

Steve

 

[gbsmusic]

Gil, either replace the guitar or I think you're a piece of shit!! It's that simple