Got my Vintage Revolution PedalPro

[Shark Diver]

Played with it most of yesterday and this morning. It is pretty freakin' amazing. I have run it as a stand alone unit into my Two-Notes LIVE (actually the LIVE is in the VR loop) and it worked great. But it is over the top running it in front of my Hiwatt/SLO. Just amazing fx and boost/drive tones. I was told it is hard to program, but I find it really easy. I didn't even have to open the manual to figure it out. (If you have programed any Lexicon, TC or Rocktron units, this is just as, if not more, easy.)

All analog, which I love, and programable, which makes it extremely versatile. Every fx so far is stellar And if you just really need to incorporate a favorite pedal the loops are great for that - but I don't really see the need. I have a ton of pedals now that simply won't get used.

I am going to work more with it as a stand alone unit with the LIVE - and what I'm missing at this point is a function of the LIVE's power amp sims, not anything lacking in the VR.

I have the Pedalino (foot controller), but won't start messing with that until I have done the basic dialing in first.

If you would like the versatility of programing while keeping the analog tone I think this would be right up your alley.

PS: soon I will try it with an AX FX II to use the digital fx that the VR doesn't do, and maybe some amp sims - though I don't really need them since I like the drive and boost of the VR. But you never know, I think these 2 units paired would be pretty complete - even more than I would ever need. The VR has an internal mixer, so keeping the analog signal clean while mixing in the digital. And with real amp/cabs or IRs/frfr monitors really should be able to do it all - and all at the same time.

 

[tokyo tapes]

Very Cool! Clips or vids would be appreciated Are there any effects that you feel is lacking in some way?

 

[Shark Diver]

Very Cool! Clips or vids would be appreciated Are there any effects that you feel is lacking in some way?

Not to me. The hard part about any of these things is I'm sure someone can say the chorus isn't as good as chorus X, or the delay isn't as good as delay Y. But someone else may totally disagree. I think everything in it sounds great. But I'm not an expert on tremolos or flangers. I think that it is the best multi fx unit I have had. I'm not selling my 2290, but I won't be using it in my gigging rig anymore.

I like my Himmelstrutz O/U boost a little more, but if I really want it I will add it in the loop - and I went through 20+ boost to find that one - and it might not even be the boost I would use if I used a different amp. And that boost alone was $350. Right now I am digging the VR boost enough that I don't think I will add the Himmelstrutz, because the VR is really good. I find the programability of the VR amazing. Everything sounds great, and has that analog musicality that most digital stuff just doesn't have - at least to my ears. It sounds like an extension of my tone, not an add on if that makes any sense. I like what a 2290 does to my tone. Also a PCM 70. But not what an Eclipse does. So, some digital stuff adds a flavor I like. And the VR is the same. It adds a warmth I dig.

I think it sits nicely between the guys who want to have a big pedal board or racked switching pedal system and hand pick their pedals and change them in and out and feel they have the absolute best of every single fx (in their opinion), and the guys who want something like an Axe FX II who want absolutely everything available with unlimited tweak ability but not necessarily the "best" tone as a trade off. The VR kind of sits in between those to me. Taking the best of both and combining them. And is less than both $ wise.

Reza, you can use it for some vid or clips anytime. But, be warned, Pete did a pretty damn good job the first time, lol

 

[Shark Diver]

Reza, you can use it for some vid or clips anytime. But, be warned, Pete did a pretty damn good job the first time, lol

No need to try and out video Mr. Thorn. thx for reminding me about his though, will go and watch now.

IDK, running it through the loop of one of your Diezels would be pretty killer.

 

[stephen sawall]

Very cool...

 

[tokyo tapes]

Very Cool! Clips or vids would be appreciated Are there any effects that you feel is lacking in some way?

Not to me. The hard part about any of these things is I'm sure someone can say the chorus isn't as good as chorus X, or the delay isn't as good as delay Y. But someone else may totally disagree. I think everything in it sounds great. But I'm not an expert on tremolos or flangers. I think that it is the best multi fx unit I have had. I'm not selling my 2290, but I won't be using it in my gigging rig anymore.

I like my Himmelstrutz O/U boost a little more, but if I really want it I will add it in the loop - and I went through 20+ boost to find that one - and it might not even be the boost I would use if I used a different amp. And that boost alone was $350. Right now I am digging the VR boost enough that I don't think I will add the Himmelstrutz, because the VR is really good. I find the programability of the VR amazing. Everything sounds great, and has that analog musicality that most digital stuff just doesn't have - at least to my ears. It sounds like an extension of my tone, not an add on if that makes any sense. I like what a 2290 does to my tone. Also a PCM 70. But not what an Eclipse does. So, some digital stuff adds a flavor I like. And the VR is the same. It adds a warmth I dig.

I think it sits nicely between the guys who want to have a big pedal board or racked switching pedal system and hand pick their pedals and change them in and out and feel they have the absolute best of every single fx (in their opinion), and the guys who want something like an Axe FX II who want absolutely everything available with unlimited tweak ability but not necessarily the "best" tone as a trade off. The VR kind of sits in between those to me. Taking the best of both and combining them. And is less than both $ wise.

Reza, you can use it for some vid or clips anytime. But, be warned, Pete did a pretty damn good job the first time, lol

Thanks! They seem to have solved all the issues they where criticised for earlier. I only wish they would be able to phantom power the Pedalino from the PP.

 

[Shark Diver]

Very Cool! Clips or vids would be appreciated Are there any effects that you feel is lacking in some way?

Not to me. The hard part about any of these things is I'm sure someone can say the chorus isn't as good as chorus X, or the delay isn't as good as delay Y. But someone else may totally disagree. I think everything in it sounds great. But I'm not an expert on tremolos or flangers. I think that it is the best multi fx unit I have had. I'm not selling my 2290, but I won't be using it in my gigging rig anymore.

I like my Himmelstrutz O/U boost a little more, but if I really want it I will add it in the loop - and I went through 20+ boost to find that one - and it might not even be the boost I would use if I used a different amp. And that boost alone was $350. Right now I am digging the VR boost enough that I don't think I will add the Himmelstrutz, because the VR is really good. I find the programability of the VR amazing. Everything sounds great, and has that analog musicality that most digital stuff just doesn't have - at least to my ears. It sounds like an extension of my tone, not an add on if that makes any sense. I like what a 2290 does to my tone. Also a PCM 70. But not what an Eclipse does. So, some digital stuff adds a flavor I like. And the VR is the same. It adds a warmth I dig.

I think it sits nicely between the guys who want to have a big pedal board or racked switching pedal system and hand pick their pedals and change them in and out and feel they have the absolute best of every single fx (in their opinion), and the guys who want something like an Axe FX II who want absolutely everything available with unlimited tweak ability but not necessarily the "best" tone as a trade off. The VR kind of sits in between those to me. Taking the best of both and combining them. And is less than both $ wise.

Reza, you can use it for some vid or clips anytime. But, be warned, Pete did a pretty damn good job the first time, lol

Thanks! They seem to have solved all the issues they where criticised for earlier. I only wish they would be able to phantom power the Pedalino from the PP.

+1 It would seem a fairly obvious thing - to me at least.

 

[stephen sawall]

Really interested on how you compare it with the Axe Fx II... I use primarily analog pedals & would be interested in a unit like this. I know you just got it ... But if you decide you might sell it I might be interested.

In the rack it would be nice to remove several of the pedals & use more fuzz...

 

[Shark Diver]

At this point it is a permanent part of my rack. I was looking for a multi FX unit and I'm glad I waited for this. I really like it. I was able to cut out a lot of rack space and weight that went to pedals, switching system and AC power for them with this. Max added an extra output that bumps the signal 15dbs to line level - which I am running into my Two-Notes LIVE for direct. Now I can use the L/R regular outputs to an amp, or power amp, for real cabs if I want - though I am more and more just going direct. But very versatile. When I get the Axe FX II I will use that in the loop for some more extreme FX and possibly some of the amp sims - but at this point I have pretty much gotten the tones I like and use. Not even sure the Axe will stay, it might simply be overkill.

There is a virtual pedalboard mode, and parameters can be changed from the Pedalino (pedalboard), and of course expression pedal for wah/volume or whatever you assign it to.

Wish list so far would be amp relays to switch amp channels via the pedal, and as stated above powering the pedal through the cable. But so far I think this is a well thought out, built like a tank, amazing sounding drive/fx unit. I highly recommend it.

PS - it also has a USB port for updates and preset storage and management.

I was telling you guys about Two-Notes 2 1/2 years ago and finally people are using them. This is another one. Trust me, you'll love it. And if you don't there is always the 30 day $ back policy.

 

[stephen sawall]

Is this accurate - from page two of the manual ??? - It seem kind of long.
" • Fast and silent preset change. Change preset in 120ms, no clicks, no
booms."

Did you get the - 4-Cable-Method Effects Loop Mod & Attenuator control options ?

Can the distortion get into the fuzz range ?

Interesting how the filters & modulation can work together. I agree it looks very well thought out. Very detailed on several levels.
I believe the reason the pedal is not powering the pedal through the cable is the pedal is the ADES system protocol uses all the lines in the cable - so no extra to for power like on many units. They could have used a different chord style with the two extra needed for power....

 

[Shark Diver]

Is this accurate - from page two of the manual ??? - It seem kind of long.
" • Fast and silent preset change. Change preset in 120ms, no clicks, no
booms."

Did you get the - 4-Cable-Method Effects Loop Mod & Attenuator control options ?

Can the distortion get into the fuzz range ?

Interesting how the filters & modulation can work together. I agree it looks very well thought out. Very detailed on several levels.
I believe the reason the pedal is not powering the pedal through the cable is the pedal is the ADES system protocol uses all the lines in the cable - so no extra to for power like on many units. They could have used a different chord style with the two extra needed for power....

I do have the 4 cable method option. But I have not tried it as the amp I have with a loop is put away, and from my Achilles surgery I just can't carry it yet. Not sure about attenuation? It has a volume control in the chain, not sure if that is what you are referring to?

As far as Fuzz, I haven't really tried that. But there is only one distortion with the boost. So, I don't think Fuzz is happening unless you modulate the signal going into the distortion first. Which I believe you can do,but I wouldn't for the life of me know what to use to do that - though I will ask Max. I will also check the presets - there might be one there already.

Running a separate power cord to the front of stage is a drag. That alone could keep me from using the Pedalino instead of a MIDI pedal, for which I just use a Rocktron cable that adds power from the rack. If I can find 20ft barrel power cable maybe I'll just tie 2 cables together, that would be ok. Also, it would be cool if you could assign the rotary wheel as a master volume for live playing.

I have pretty much dialed in my tone with just the PedalPro and LIVE. So, for direct I don't need the head. I keep telling myself I need a head, but my ears tell me I don't so why drag it around - but I'm programmed to miss it, lol

To add the head (I have been using my Hiwatt/SLO) I simply take the out of the PedalPro that now goes to the LIVE and run it into the amp input, speaker cable to the live - 2 cables. And if I wanted to use real cabs too all I'd have to do is run a speaker cable from the LIVE thru to a cab - done. I'd have direct and real cabs.

 

[stephen sawall]

"Attenuator control €50,00 or $50 - This customisation includes the attenuator knob installed in the back panel to allow full control of the return signal level of the post loop return (Ext. Effect return) plus an extra buffer placed after this knob. This modification requires the 4 cable method customisation." .... this one.

The ADES can do more than MIDI - But you might not need it. Looks like they are still developing what can be done with MIDI. From a other forum ....

"Hi there,
while I agree with you that for the marketing point of view it would be better to mantain the midi-in standards, I disagree that standard midi is good enough for analogue controlls.

I just want to explain why at the moment PedalPro does not have midi-in software compatibilty.
When I started designing the PedalPro, it was to be used with MIDI-IN. This is why the physical compatibility.

During the development I realize that controlling the PedalPro with an external controller was to much programming and not really efficient.
But the point when I decide that I had to abandon the MIDI-IN was the wah effect.

For me making a great wah was essential. As you all experienced guitar players, you know that wah is really an important effect.
Now if you look in to the market, there are many multi-effects MIDI-IN compatible.
But none of them can make a great wah sound better or comparable to a Crybaby (or other models).
There are few reasons for it:
- All the Wah in a multi effect are digital

- Midi messages are not for free. Every time you send a midi message you send 3 bytes out. If you are using RPN you need to address 6 bytes for one position of the expression pedal.
Every MIDI byte is 0,320 ms. This means that for RPN message I need almost 2 ms !!!
If you want to have a very good wah that it react as fast as Wah pedal you need to have your latency less then 1ms.
If you control two formant filters to make a vowel you will need 4ms (2x2 ms).

- Zipper noise. see http://wiki.fractalaudio.com/axefx2/...:_zipper_noise
the work around is to use a damping factor which also introduce a latency.

- Using midi with 7 bit resolution= 128 levels is really bad for most analogue parameters. So it is not an option.


Of course I understand, that changing a standard to go for a proprietary protocol means looking for trouble, but I had to make the decision based on improvements and achieving better sound quality.

MIDI-IN compatibility would require a new software to be uploaded in the PedalPro via USB
But the magic and the beauty of our controlls will be drastically reduced in order to compromise with the MIDI protocol limitation. And then a lot of programming for the users.

The ADES protocol is bidirectional, does not require programming, and takes care about the dynamic difference between each analogue parameter.
Further you do not need to re-program the names in both foot-controller and effect unit.

After all what we really want is to enjoying the play and having a great sound.


Just one last question..
How many presets of your set up use different expression parameters with the same expression pedal ?
Who much takes for you to programm one sound where the expression is a wah, one where the same expression is a tremolo depth and one where the same expression is a volume pedal and they all have distinguished ranges ?
Well with PedalPro this takes less then 20 sec.
Laatst gewijzigd door massi1234; 24 juni 2012 om 13:16"

 

[Shark Diver]

Hmm, didn't even know that was an option. But not sure I would use it. Can't imagine a piece of outboard gear that wouldn't have an output level. Plus, there is internal mixer too.

I'm going to try the Pedalino this week and see how I like it. I get what he says about ADES, but like electric cars, if there isn't an infrastructure already in place to support it, it's a hard sell. Proprietary designs can lead to a lot of repair and compatibility issues. But it's got to start somewhere - we aren't still rockin' 8-tracks

I purchased as an fx unit, and am pleasantly surprised with the drive/boost. Tomorrow I'm going to run my GTO in the loop and see how the boost works with it, and whether I like it more than the VR's distortion.

 

[stephen sawall]

I found in a other forum they say it can get into fuzz range. Interesting to hear how you feel about it & the GTO.

Right now it is limited in what you can do with MIDI ...

"We are currently developing midi in compatibility. At the moment the firmware supports the MIDI commands with the check symbol:
Program change √
Bank change √
Effects on/off
Parameters via MIDICC
Bidirectional
Tuner"

But they say they are expanding this ....

One thing for sure a unit that can do this much is very cool..... and I like the idea they are expanding on it all the time.

You know I read about this unit over a year ago & since then it looks like they changed several things making it better. Not a lot of people have experience with it .... so hearing your views on it is interesting. Pete does great reviews & clips ... but he is hired so I see anything like that a little different. I will say Pete is very straight forward about strengths & weaknesses of things & trust his opinions.

This unit being as deep & complex as it is obviously takes some time to become completely familiar with .... cool you are sharing your views as you experience it.

 

[Shark Diver]

GTO worked very well. But since it is such a hot pedal the range I could get with it using the VR's boost was limited. Just a function of the GTO. The cool thing is that the VR's boost goes to -6dbs, so you can get below where the GTO is set. The VR can be set very close to this pedal so I don't see any reason to add it. If I use the VR into my amp it pretty much nails it.

Try my X99 with it as well. Again sounded great, but not so much better that I would rack it up. I guess the reality is that the VR sounds great in the drive/boost dept. and unless you just have a very specific sound from your pedals/pre/amp you want to keep the VR will do the trick. Also, the VR has sounded great fx wise with everything I have thrown at it.

I don't hear fuzz in there though. I went through every single preset and don't hear anything I would consider a true fuzz. I put my one fuzz pedal (Himmelstrutz Gramps) in the loop and it sounded great - but I'm not a big fuzz guy. My original thought was to use an Axess GR4 as a 4 loop switcher for drives in the loop for tones the VR can't do. That way I'd just have 4 separate tones there but so far don't think I will need to. But if I did the cool part would be the loop is after the VR's boost so I could boost any pedals added as well. But that's a lot of overkill.

Going to start manipulating the filters to see if I can effectively change the distortions character. The signal flow of the 4 cable - not in the manual:

 

[stephen sawall]

Do you mean this ?
http://www.vintage-revolution.com/image ... op_mod.jpg

Looks like you can do a lot of things with the envelope. You like the OD/Distortion as much as the GTO & X99 ?

 

[Shark Diver]

Do you mean this ?
http://www.vintage-revolution.com/image ... op_mod.jpg

Looks like you can do a lot of things with the envelope. You like the OD/Distortion as much as the GTO & X99 ?

I haven't run the unit through an amps fx loop. But I can't see any reason it wouldn't work just as well. I have run the VR in the front of an amp and it was great. I am working with it now just as a stand alone unit into the LIVE and then FRFR. It works perfectly like this. Does running it into the front of the Hiwatt DR105 pre with a SLO KT66 power section sound better? Sure. But not by much. And even then that is a function of the LIVE replacing the amp/cap not anything the VR is doing.

The GTO and X99 sound great in the VR's loop. But the VR's distortion is as good. A little different, but no more than the difference between the GTO and X99. I tried a few overdrive/distortion pedals as well. I won't be using any pedals. Chances are that most of the stuff I have is similar enough to one another that once I dialed in the VR to what I like it all was very close. So, I'm very happy with the VRs distortion. It is pretty easy to tweak with the LP filter, tone and boost. A lot of tone combinations in that.

At this point very happy. Going to go with the VR with a Lexicon PCM70 in the loop, VR into the LIVE. 4 space complete rack. Pretty cool. And if I get bored I'll just run it into the front of an amp. I like the VR more than the Eclipse and GForce I've owned - which were my favorite multi effects units.

 

[stephen sawall]

Very cool you feel the distortion sounds that good.

 

[Shark Diver]

Very cool you feel the distortion sounds that good.

Yeah, I have had great results with it. It is mostly what I have been trying out. Slight breakup through some very high gain. It is great on it's own, and really shines though my amp. For the stuff I dig - '50s-'90s - it is great. It's very tweakable so, I think most would dig it. Very pickup/volume knob sensitive. And as always, if there is a pedal or pre that you can't live without the loop works great.

I had really thought of running my X99, or CAE 3+, in the loop but I just don't need to. And the cool thing is it was easy to A/B by just running them in the loop and switching the distortion or loop on/off.

I will say, I still haven't 100% decided whether to run as a stand alone or through my amp. Pretty close in tone. I think you get more out of the boost of the VR through the amp, but not much. I play it both ways a couple of times a day and am very happy with both. Started making my own patches/presets today instead of just tweaking. I can say that I don't see taking this out of my rack - ever. I really dig it. Was trying the Flange today and thought it was great. Not a big fx guy to begin with, so not sure how it stacks up with everyone's idea of the perfect flange - but it sounds as good as my TC 2290 I think in this dept.

Seems this is our own private thread. That's a shame because I think a lot of guys here would dig it. It integrates well in several different types of rigs, or as it's own rig. It can be the hub, or a spoke. I think for the guys not wanting digital and not wanting to deal with a switching system this is perfect - and at the same time you could have all of that with this and still be very happy.

I got this because I really didn't want to go down the Eclipse, Gforce route again. I never really bonded with those. And I love my 2290 and PCM70, but that's 3 spaces plus 4-6 if I rack pedals and a switching system/mixer. (I spent over $4k on pedals the last 2 years and still haven't put that together because I don't want to wire and carry it.

Best part about reading the forums is discovering this kind of stuff. I probably never would have known about this without them promoting on the forums - which of course they caught crap about.

 

[jlbaxe]

Very cool you feel the distortion sounds that good.

Yeah, I have had great results with it. It is mostly what I have been trying out. Slight breakup through some very high gain. It is great on it's own, and really shines though my amp. For the stuff I dig - '50s-'90s - it is great. It's very tweakable so, I think most would dig it. Very pickup/volume knob sensitive. And as always, if there is a pedal or pre that you can't live without the loop works great.

I had really thought of running my X99, or CAE 3+, in the loop but I just don't need to. And the cool thing is it was easy to A/B by just running them in the loop and switching the distortion or loop on/off.

I will say, I still haven't 100% decided whether to run as a stand alone or through my amp. Pretty close in tone. I think you get more out of the boost of the VR through the amp, but not much. I play it both ways a couple of times a day and am very happy with both. Started making my own patches/presets today instead of just tweaking. I can say that I don't see taking this out of my rack - ever. I really dig it. Was trying the Flange today and thought it was great. Not a big fx guy to begin with, so not sure how it stacks up with everyone's idea of the perfect flange - but it sounds as good as my TC 2290 I think in this dept.

Seems this is our own private thread. That's a shame because I think a lot of guys here would dig it. It integrates well in several different types of rigs, or as it's own rig. It can be the hub, or a spoke. I think for the guys not wanting digital and not wanting to deal with a switching system this is perfect - and at the same time you could have all of that with this and still be very happy.

I got this because I really didn't want to go down the Eclipse, Gforce route again. I never really bonded with those. And I love my 2290 and PCM70, but that's 3 spaces plus 4-6 if I rack pedals and a switching system/mixer. (I spent over $4k on pedals the last 2 years and still haven't put that together because I don't want to wire and carry it.

Best part about reading the forums is discovering this kind of stuff. I probably never would have known about this without them promoting on the forums - which of course they caught crap about.

Oh I'm here watching and reading. Seems cool, and I'm interested. I'd like to see some USA dealers and maybe a few more features worked out like effect loop,the midi/fantom power, USB/edit system become standard. Again I'm really interested and waiting... They need to send RJM a unit so he can add it to the Mastermind GT