MetalHeart
Well-known member
My 2 MIM Charvels are some of the best all around guitars I've owned 
I cant afford the USA versions .
I cant afford the USA versions .
The~Kid
Well-known member
Okay I mean two MIA guitars on my radar because IMO they are worth it and worth the money are Gibson Faded Standard 50s or Fender Ultra Luxe with FR and Ebony or Rosewood board.......
For the money and what they offer I think those things are as good as any Custom Shop whatever but just streamlined for production and those things are a step above your average top dollar import too with a proper set up going through a proper amp. Coming from owning a Princeton Reverb Reissue I really think some MIA things are totally worth the money and if you have the money get the MIA versions because usually a lot of the time it's that much better than the import stuff.
Having said that your average import from China, Mexico or Indonesia has gotten so much better now adays and well it's good that there is all this competition IMO.
For the money and what they offer I think those things are as good as any Custom Shop whatever but just streamlined for production and those things are a step above your average top dollar import too with a proper set up going through a proper amp. Coming from owning a Princeton Reverb Reissue I really think some MIA things are totally worth the money and if you have the money get the MIA versions because usually a lot of the time it's that much better than the import stuff.
Having said that your average import from China, Mexico or Indonesia has gotten so much better now adays and well it's good that there is all this competition IMO.
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Music&Chaos
Well-known member
Hilariously, I have slowly walked back on my previous thoughts after having trained overseas people for multiple years. (Which was that country of origin did NOT matter.)
There are people I train with 3x the experience of their US counterparts that can't even come close to the same performance.
The US people just do better work, even wih far less training and guidance. Not even close.
We have tried it from every angle and do constant training. I am very well versed with the differences in eastern and western mindsets, and there are differences for sure, but I did not think they would translate the way they do into the work performed.
I know it is a completely different area but I honestly am shocked at how much it seems to connect.
Yes, some individuals are good, but their best are never as good as ours, even if they somehow have much more of a helping hand through the process, constant training, managers watching and guiding them, etc.
Does this relate to the guitar world? Unsure.
If you had asked me beforehand if there would have been any difference between the two groups, I would have answered "They will perform the same after proper training and time."
This is the answer from the guitar community as well in general it seems, which seems to fit logically but again....from real world experience..... It just doesn't work out that way.
We have so many meetings to try to figure out why and can't find any logical conclusion.
Feel free to forget all of this as soon as you read it.
There are people I train with 3x the experience of their US counterparts that can't even come close to the same performance.
The US people just do better work, even wih far less training and guidance. Not even close.
We have tried it from every angle and do constant training. I am very well versed with the differences in eastern and western mindsets, and there are differences for sure, but I did not think they would translate the way they do into the work performed.
I know it is a completely different area but I honestly am shocked at how much it seems to connect.
Yes, some individuals are good, but their best are never as good as ours, even if they somehow have much more of a helping hand through the process, constant training, managers watching and guiding them, etc.
Does this relate to the guitar world? Unsure.
If you had asked me beforehand if there would have been any difference between the two groups, I would have answered "They will perform the same after proper training and time."
This is the answer from the guitar community as well in general it seems, which seems to fit logically but again....from real world experience..... It just doesn't work out that way.
We have so many meetings to try to figure out why and can't find any logical conclusion.
Feel free to forget all of this as soon as you read it.
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Music&Chaos
Well-known member
I do have guitars from all different origins.
A good guitar is a good guitar, no matter where it is built.
That being said, I would have to actually have my hands on the guitar in question to make that call.
A good guitar is a good guitar, no matter where it is built.
That being said, I would have to actually have my hands on the guitar in question to make that call.
Music&Chaos
Well-known member
Great points made here.100% agree
DanTravis62
Well-known member
Nah, this is legitimate, I worked in a field where I was supposed to train people from other countries for a while and had a similar experience.
I think part of it is people in the west are brainwashed from birth into rainbows and candy canes "equality" universalism, when any toddler knows it isn't that simple. Deep down, I think adults know it, too.
That isn't to say that anyone is really above anyone else; on the contrary, just that differences exist and they pop up in all vagaries of human existence.
The interesting part, to me, are the countries where it seems to be a whole hell of a lot easier for that type of training to "translate" (as you put it). Japan, Korea, and Germany, certainly. Especially as compared to the difficulty that companies have with Chinese production.
As far individual guitars, I don't think it's that big of a deal, there's probably good examples of all
The~Kid
Well-known member
Maybe I just took MIA stuff for granted forever as my first tube amps were MIA. Peavey Classic 30, Crate Vintage Club...... okay not the best but still MIA and really great amps.
I never really considered Chinese amps other than the ones Vox makes because they are pretty damn good but when it comes to JCA or other Chinese amps from Laney or whatever I'm not too impressed. Reading up on Vox too their Chinese facility is completely in house unlike other Chinese amps that are just OEMs pretty much so it makes sense. The Vox stuff is good and hell Chinese Celestions are great as well I must admit but when I plugged into a Princeton Reverb Reissue with an Italian Jenson it kind of re opened my eyes as to just how much better MIA stuff actually is and just Western Made things are in general.
Even with something as simple as cables...... there are some nice decent Chinese cables for example and I use some but the Western Made American/German/Japanese cables are really that much better IME. Can't explain it but they just are and are worth the money in that case too IMO.
I didn't have money laying around for it but yeah I got my Princeton Reissue right before the pandemic for 1000$ and I think they are worth like 1500 or 1600 hundred now as I got a 112 version. Didn't have the money for an amp..... but as soon as I played it the money sure made it's way out of nowhere to get it all of a sudden......
Yeah I also have a Katana Artist Mkll made in Malaysia as sort of like backup in light of tubes getting harder to come by or the fragile and volatile supply of them..... and kind of use the Artist now mainly not because it's so much better but I want to preserve the tubes and not put so many miles on my tube amps especially my Princeton.
I may get another Princeton Reverb and put a 112 in it my self and just to have two because I like to have two of the same thing because eventually things ware out with more and more use and I like to have two ofs in case one gets damaged or needs repair or tubes changed or whatever or maintenance I have that other spare one and rotate to put less miles on the gear.
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The~Kid
Well-known member
With pickups I think it matters and MIA pups make a difference whether it's Dimarzios, EMGs, Lace Sensor or Seymour Duncan or whatever.
American made pups and pups Made in USA IMO have always been better than any import pups I have ever played in my life and MIA and Made in USA definitely matters there IME ^_^
American made pups and pups Made in USA IMO have always been better than any import pups I have ever played in my life and MIA and Made in USA definitely matters there IME ^_^
RaceU4her
Well-known member
i couldnt tell you with any certainty where any of my imports are made, i remember looking out of curiosity the last time we had a thread similar to this a while back, but i honestly just dont care enough to remember. i have a great set up guy who gets even my biggest pieces of shit playing and sounding as good as my USA and Japan guitars, and thats all i care about. im sure there are dudes here though who blindfolded would play the same model USA and import, and even if the import was better they arent gonna admit it and go with the USA, its just how guitar players are.
V
VonBonfire
Well-known member
I only own Edwards and LTD guitars anymore and I have a an old yairi alvarez hohner branded acoustic. I don't care where they are from, just the amount of love the builder put into them and how they play and sound.
Music&Chaos
Well-known member
True! My made in Japan Takamine and Jem are SICK guitars. I have yet to come across something of the like honestly from China as of yet but if they put the time, effort, and love into it, it should show.
Findthetone1
Well-known member
This is my approach as well. Most of mine are MIA but I have 3 MIJ (Bacchus and 2 Takamine) and 1 MIK (Reverend) and they are really good guitars. I also had a MIK Gretsch that was nice.
In addition to the issues with MIC goods DanTravis62 posted, I'll add that they are also the largest exporter of counterfeit goods on the planet. So they can suck it.
phillybhatesme
Well-known member
No, get a setup.
dcburn
Well-known member
Yes.
tallcoolone
Well-known member
I’ve never heard this before, care to elaborate?
M
MusicIsLife
Well-known member
It doesn't really matter to me. I look at whether I think the value is there for what I'm paying. Lower quality has more to do with the price point they're being asked to meet and any corners that need to be cut to achieve that, rather than being intrinsic to the COA. I have MIK Schecters and a Reverend, an MIJ Ibanez, and MIC Hagstrom and Gretsch that hang just fine with my USA Gibsons/Fender/Carvin. What I usually find lacking with the imports is the pickups, but 75% of the time I swap out the pups in my USA guitars too.
rsm
Well-known member
I have guitars made in USA, Japan, Indonesia, China,... the higher the price the higher my expectations.
My favorite hardtail guitar is Ibanez PS10; I own two; MIJ, Prestige. At 1/3 of the price of the PS10, I also have one PS120, made in China; similar features to the PS10: abalone binding and inlays, neckthru, same Duncan '59/Custom pickups; at 1/3 of the price of the PS120, I have two PS60, made in Indonesia, bolt on neck, and basic Ibanez pickups, no abalone binding.
So I have three versions of PS guitars, from the same maker, at three different price points, from three different countries to compare.
The PS10 are at another level, but it's very subtle and took me a long time to realize the differences, and when I did I purchased a second PS10.
the PS120 is good for it's price but my Chibanez is just as good at 1/3 the price of the PS120 (about half the price of the PS120 after my upgrade costs).
The PS60, are ok, I'd take these to a dive bar gig; not worth reselling or upgrading. My Chibanez guitars are priced about the same as the PS60, but the Chibanez are better quality, and built similar to the PS120 and PS10.
The real surprise to me are: how good the PS10 is compared to the others; 2) how good the Chibanez are for their price. though I'll add, I have 3 Chibanez, two are very good, the third is very good too but it has blemishes on the body top finish, under the clearcoat. Everything else about the guitar is as good as the other two, so I plan to refin the top someday if ever get around to it.
crwnedblasphemy
Well-known member
Still matters to me. Only for this; I'm not some snob who won't play an Indonesia made guitar, BUT, I'm not gonna pay top dollar for one when I can find a used MIJ or something that I like just as much for similar pricing.
Music&Chaos
Well-known member
I'll also say that my Jem 77bfp made in Indo was nowhere close to my MIJ Jem or even the RG652 I had for some time.
I loved the way that floral guitar looked and it felt nice as well. It would be a number of minute things that translate to the overall feel but yeah, the Made in Indo couldn't touch the Japanese builds.
People still argue the Made in Indo Jems are just as nice feeling and playing as the MIJ, but I would just suppose they don't actually own the Japanese variant, or it would be clear.
I loved the way that floral guitar looked and it felt nice as well. It would be a number of minute things that translate to the overall feel but yeah, the Made in Indo couldn't touch the Japanese builds.
People still argue the Made in Indo Jems are just as nice feeling and playing as the MIJ, but I would just suppose they don't actually own the Japanese variant, or it would be clear.
rsm
Well-known member
are the JEM differences that obvious?
When I started comparing my PS10 to the PS120, the differences were subtle, and it took me time to recognize them, but once I started to see them, I started to notice more and they can't be unseen. At first, I was disappointed with the PS10 for the price, now I own two because they're that good IMO.