Had myself a Diezelfest last night (Herbert vs VH4)

[Phrygian]

My buddy swung by last night with his VH4 to compare it to my Herbert. Had lots of fun and was happy I got to put the VH4 through its paces. Both great amps, but I've got to say the Herbert is the clear winner, for me anyway.

Both have good clean channels, although I prefer the Herbert's clean. It reacts super well to picking, and if I'm digging in on some chicken picking type stuff it almost gives it a compressed quality that I enjoy. When strumming it's just wide open and extremely pleasant; no breakup at all. The VH4's bright switch does allow for some real glassy sound if that's your thing. I found the VH4's clean dull when bright was not engaged.

I would compare the VH4's channel 2 to the Herbert's 2 "-" channel, although still not even close. I didn't care for the VH4's channel 2 at all. It seemed like a weak offering. Dialed it a few ways, it was ok, but nothing special. The Herbert 2 "-" on the other hand is very big sounding, classic, and just awesome. I use this mode with my classic rock band a lot!

Channel 3 on the VH4 I would compare to the Herbert's 2 "+". The VH4 is more tuned to that british sound, with a Diezel twist if I were to explain it right. Definitely a fun channel, good mids, but dryer than the Herbert. The Herbert 2 "+" is modern, big, and more 3D. I just find it more sonically pleasing with great harmonics and sustain. The VH4 chan 3 is no slouch, and you can really get some tight riffage going on. My buddy played tons of Metallica through it and had the sound and feel nailed. Still, when I switched to the VH4, something was missing for me. The Herbert is sonically more rich, juicier.

I didn't do much on channel 4 of the VH4. What I did want to compare was the sustain and ability to find great overtones. It couldn't preform what the Herbert is able to accomplish. I showed my buddy how ridiculous the Herbert could sustain a note, and I'm talking to the point it's still going and you eventually just have to say "this is insane" and move on. The VH4 couldn't do that. Both sound good for soloing but the Herbert was still the clear winner. The Herbert's channel 3 sings for solos! As for rhythm, both are good but again I just love the Herbert sound. I did notice the VH4 is quieter though...a bit of hiss on the Herbert. Oh well lol.

In term of versatility, add all the switchable functions and the mid cut, well the Herbert wins there too. I never use the mid cut but it is a cool function to mess around with. It does suck away your bottom end though. Boo! lol The VH4's "Thru" function is a pretty awesome addition I must say. I ponied up the Herbert thru the VH4 and ran both. Sounded great together. A nice option if you don't have an amp switcher.

Anyway, both great amps, different strokes for different folks. I just preferred the Herbert in every way. I have mine dialed perfectly to my tastes, with a selection of 4 KT88's and 2 6L6's. And although the Herbert is touted as a metal amp, I have it dialed for hard rock and am really enjoying it. It sounds huge, has no problem in a mix, and has a great lively sound to it that just makes me smile! Since owning it I sold my 4 Mesa's, my VHT Pittbull Ultra Lead, Marshall Vintage Modern and Bogner Uberschall.

Would love to hear others experiences with either amp. Cheers!

Matt

 

[cujo]

Wonder how Hagen would have fit in to your recepie. How u woe have like it compared to the ladder 2.

 

[Les Zombie]

I owned both amps and hated the vh4 and love the herbert, i still own a herbert but could get rid the vh4 quick enough, i also played 5 or 6 other vh4 but still didnt like them, so for me the herbert is the winner and possibly my fav amp i own.

 

[Phrygian]

Wonder how Hagen would have fit in to your recepie. How u woe have like it compared to the ladder 2.

I'm definitely curious about the Hagen, but I've already read so many mixed reviews. I'd like to get an Einstein in here as well. I was just lucky enough to get another Diezel at my place at all. There aren't many kicking around here.

I know guys who love the VH4, but it didn't do much for me to be honest. Spent a good 4 hours with it. Easy to dial in, nice enough, just wasn't enough for me. Would like to try recording it next time.

 

[Phrygian]

I owned both amps and hated the vh4 and love the herbert, i still own a herbert but could get rid the vh4 quick enough, i also played 5 or 6 other vh4 but still didnt like them, so for me the herbert is the winner and possibly my fav amp i own.

That's awesome to hear. I have a feeling I would encounter the same results. Wouldn't mind trying a VH4 with different tubes. I've been a KT88 guy for a while now. Wonder how much of a difference it would make. My buddy's VH4 had EL34's. Definitely added to the British sound. Sounding really British when I put it through my vintage Marshall cab lol.

I just love the Herbert! And every time I play out I get tons of compliments. It does me well.

 

[spirit7]

I own both and agree with you wholly: the Herbert is the better amp. That said, obviously the VH4 Ch. 3 is legendary. Different strokes etc.

-C

 

[Les Zombie]

I liked my einstein better than my vh4.
I also wanna try the hagen but it might be a while before i see one.

 

[spirit7]

Les - potentially trading my VH4 for an Uberschall (VH4 is older, Uberschall brand new and the prices aren't too far apart in Europe). I own a Herbert. Will the amps compliment one another well?

-C

 

[Phrygian]

I own both and agree with you wholly: the Herbert is the better amp. That said, obviously the VH4 Ch. 3 is legendary. Different strokes etc.

-C

Chan 3 does seem to be the mojo channel for the VH4. Lots of goodness to be had on there.

 

[Phrygian]

I liked my einstein better than my vh4.
I also wanna try the hagen but it might be a while before i see one.

Very interesting! How would you compare the Einstein to the Herbie?

 

[Phrygian]

Les - potentially trading my VH4 for an Uberschall (VH4 is older, Uberschall brand new and the prices aren't too far apart in Europe). I own a Herbert. Will the amps compliment one another well?

-C

I had an Uberschall Rev Blue and loved it. Doesn't offer the versatility of a Diezel and the volume difference between clean and dirty was significant, but it was a killer amp with an unbelievable amount of low end. Lots of juiciness, smooth leads (especially if you play slide), and super fun to play. I think it's a nice compliment to the Herbert. The Herbert plays well with others I find. I had a great time running the herbert and Uber, Herbert and Ultra Lead, or the Herbert and Vintage Modern. Just massive sounding!

 

[The Hoff]

Hmmm...I guess I am on the other end. I've owned both and prefer the VH4

 

[Phrygian]

Hmmm...I guess I am on the other end. I've owned both and prefer the VH4

It happens. I remember reading a thread on gearslutz where James Lugo mentioned he much preferred the VH4 as well, especially when it came to recording. I can imagine the VH4 records well just from listening to it.

 

[Joeytpg]

ok I don't wont you to take this personally 'cause it's not, by any means

but I think that unconsciously you wanted not to like the VH4 more than your Herbert. again it's just my impression based on your description. Maybe also just be that you don't jive with the VH4 like it happens to many people

The thing with the VH4 is that it's the most complex Diezel around.....it reacts to so many variables....much more so than the other Diezels (maybe becuase it was Peter's first amp) the guitar, the pickups, the cabs, the tubes make a HUGE deal here. For example a Strat through the VH4's channel 2 or a low output humbucker is THE MOST awesome tone you can find in that amp..... (apart from the full on rock/metal rythm in ch 3) That channel alone (ch2) can do clean, blues, classic rock and even hard rock (on the 2007+ models)

But again it'll depend on your guitar and pickups.

The vh4 is a dry amp, not a "fun amp" if you're used to saggy amps (even the herbert is a bit "saggy" compared to the VH4.

Clean channel, here's another one, depends on the pickups too....a strat or some low output pups will make this channel shine.....but it's not a sparkly hifi cahnnel like the Herbert's, so maybe you're just used to that.

 

[Phrygian]

ok I don't wont you to take this personally 'cause it's not, by any means

but I think that unconsciously you wanted not to like the VH4 more than your Herbert. again it's just my impression based on your description. Maybe also just be that you don't jive with the VH4 like it happens to many people

The thing with the VH4 is that it's the most complex Diezel around.....it reacts to so many variables....much more so than the other Diezels (maybe becuase it was Peter's first amp) the guitar, the pickups, the cabs, the tubes make a HUGE deal here. For example a Strat through the VH4's channel 2 or a low output humbucker is THE MOST awesome tone you can find in that amp..... (apart from the full on rock/metal rythm in ch 3) That channel alone (ch2) can do clean, blues, classic rock and even hard rock (on the 2007+ models)

But again it'll depend on your guitar and pickups.

The vh4 is a dry amp, not a "fun amp" if you're used to saggy amps (even the herbert is a bit "saggy" compared to the VH4.

Clean channel, here's another one, depends on the pickups too....a strat or some low output pups will make this channel shine.....but it's not a sparkly hifi cahnnel like the Herbert's, so maybe you're just used to that.

Actually just the opposite...I went in WANTING to love it lol. Maybe I had too high expectations? I don't know. Tried it with a variety of guitars...Gibson Les Paul Standard with EMG, Ernie Ball Axis, PRS SC245, Fender USA Deluxe Strat Plus and ESP Truckster. Put it through its paces pretty well.

Granted I could have done more than a 4 hour tests, but I get around amps pretty quickly and extensively within that time. Now I'm just comparing it to the Herbert. It's not to say the VH4 doesn't rock. It's still a Diezel, and a cut above the rest. But specifically compared to the Herbert, I wasn't all that impressed. I wanted to be so I could eventually add one to the collection, but I think the Herbert does everything I could ask for and more.

You're right though, it is a dry amp, and that could have thrown me off. Mind you my VHT was super dry and I had no probs with that.

Will comment more in a bit. Gotta run to an appointment! Cheers!

 

[Motorpud]

I liked the VH4 a lot better than the Herbert. It's hard to say why I didn't like the Herbert. I think that it was just so overly compressed that it turned me off. Also I thought it had too much bass and it could get flubby in a hurry so it was kind of hard to make it sit right.

Goes to show just like you said, different strokes for different folks. I can say that the Herbert brings the thunder though

 

[zuel69]

Better for whom? Couldn't get rid of the Herbert half stack fast enough! Blueface '11 is here to stay and there is nothing dry about it.

I own both and agree with you wholly: the Herbert is the better amp. That said, obviously the VH4 Ch. 3 is legendary. Different strokes etc.

-C

 

[guitarman967]

For me, it was the complete opposite.
The VH4 sounds like a real amp to me. Very smooth with the right amount of mids.

The Herbert sounds like a $4,000 Crate amp with a Sonic maximizer in the loop.
(not even kidding, my first crate amp had distortion that sounded like that)

The Herbies all lows and highs. It's worse with the midcut engaged which is completely worthless to me. The tone would get very metallic in the highs no matter what. Not to mention the low end reacts 5 minutes after you hit the string.
I will grant you the clean is phenomenal, and the MC actually helps in that regard.

Sorry to derail the lovefest, I just never understood the love for that amp especially that that price point.
It has awesome features and a really nice loop but the tone doesnt deliver. It's a tough amp to really dominate a mix live as well.
I'm actually shocked you got rid of one of the best amps ever made in the Ultralead for a Herbie.
As another post said, different strokes.

 

[spguitar]

The Herbert sounds like a $4,000 Crate amp with a Sonic maximizer in the loop.
(not even kidding, my first crate amp had distortion that sounded like that)

Definitely didn't spend enough time with the amp with the mid-cut off. Mine cuts through my band like the other guitarist's Marshall isn't even there. I hate Sonic Maximizers so there's no way i'd own a head if it sounded like that. The VH4 i tried sounded more like what you just described, really lifeless and cold. Maybe it was a cold biased head that we rented to record with. Who knows..

 

[guitarman967]

The Herbert sounds like a $4,000 Crate amp with a Sonic maximizer in the loop.
(not even kidding, my first crate amp had distortion that sounded like that)

Definitely didn't spend enough time with the amp with the mid-cut off. Mine cuts through my band like the other guitarist's Marshall isn't even there. I hate Sonic Maximizers so there's no way i'd own a head if it sounded like that. The VH4 i tried sounded more like what you just described, really lifeless and cold. Maybe it was a cold biased head that we rented to record with. Who knows..

I'm exaggerating but only slightly.
I owned a Herbert for 2 months. Played it as much as possible and I wanted to love it.
I'm just not the right type of player for that amp I'm gonna assume. I like tight, unforgiving midrangey amps.