Has anyone used a tube direct box with digital modelers?

[rsm]

I've been revisiting my Boss SY-1000, which has some of the GT-1000 AIRD amp and cab models which are on par with other high-end modelers IMO.

Like all modelers I've used, there's a missing "dimensionality" that I hear with a tube amp in the room.

Adding tube effects into the modeler's signal chain won't help because it will undergo AD/DA conversion by the time the audio signal leaves the digital modeler.

So then I thought, what about placing a tube DI after the output of the digital modeler before it goes to FRFR or PA? It may also get AD/DA conversions at this stage, but maybe more of the tube amp in the room "dimensionality" will survive (edit: or even add some)?

Has anyone tried this? If not does anyone have a digital modeler and a tube DI that's willing to try / compare the output of the digital modeler vs the output of the digital modeler + tube DI, to see if it makes a real, noticeable or usable difference?

 

[mentoneman]

i tried a presonus tube di and then a dbx tube pre/comp in the loop of an axe-fx ultra i had. did not do anything cool and in fact seemed to make the attack feel slower/mushier.

 

[rsm]

i tried a presonus tube di and then a dbx tube pre/comp in the loop of an axe-fx ultra i had. did not do anything cool and in fact seemed to make the attack feel slower/mushier.

I didn't think it would help in the loop of the modeler due to the AD/DA conversions. I think your experience confirms that.

I was wondering how it would work / what it would do, if it processed the output of the digital modeler, as the last process in the signal chain before going to FRFR or to a mixer / audio interface.

As a tube DI, it shouldn't add too much color like a tube pre, but it should add some warmth or dimension is my thought...but the digital FRFR or digital mixer might reduce that with AD/DA conversion?

I don't have a tube DI, and I'd need two or a stereo tube DI to test it...I'd rather not waste the money if it doesn't work....so hoping someone here has a digital modeler of some kind and a tube DI to see if adds anything good / at all to the sound

 

[tjnx]

Before the converters will probably give the best results (if any). I think the more compressed nature of modelers is the culprit. You could try dialing the patch in a little hot then rolling the guitar back to try to get more dynamics but I think its just the nature of the beast for the time being.

 

[buddachile]

AD/DA conversion doesn't mess up the sound. Impedance mismatches, bad gain staging, that can have a detrimental effect but AD/DA just adds a little latency.

 

[rsm]

AD/DA conversion doesn't mess up the sound. Impedance mismatches, bad gain staging, that can have a detrimental effect but AD/DA just adds a little latency.

I thought AD/DA could also filter out some frequencies...could be just inexpensive converters, or is it no longer an issue?

 

[tjnx]

I thought AD/DA could also filter out some frequencies...could be just inexpensive converters, or is it no longer an issue?

Converters can add some coloring but most of the time its subtle. We recorded in a studio that used a Burl that does certain things to the low end alot of people like. I think in the case for modelers and my interface for example (rme babyface), the conversion is more transparent. However, the rme compared to my previous motu had much better conversion when comparing with the same headphones, so I don't necessarily believe that converters don't matter.

The patch or algorithm for the amp model has the greatest effect. They likely have a low-cost conversion that could be improved but you'd get bigger improvements with a better model.

 

[buddachile]

AD/DA process doesn't filter out audible frequencies.

 

[NorCal_Val]

I use a VHT/Fryette Valvulator out in front of the AxeFX iii.(the older model that is a line buffer and power supply for a pedalboard)
I’m not certain how to explain it, but the Valvulator is introducing some sort of “element” to the signal chain that makes the AxeFX feel more like playing through an actual amp.

 

[Shask]

AD/DA process doesn't filter out audible frequencies.

I generally don't hear much of a frequency difference with many modern converters, but many times I can feel a difference. Many times I notice less dynamic punch, immediate response, and sometimes I notice the bass kind of blurring together.

 

[mnemonic]

I use a VHT/Fryette Valvulator out in front of the AxeFX iii.(the older model that is a line buffer and power supply for a pedalboard)
I’m not certain how to explain it, but the Valvulator is introducing some sort of “element” to the signal chain that makes the AxeFX feel more like playing through an actual amp.

I use one of these in front of my pedalboard with my tube amps, love it. I used it with my axe FX II also but I havent used its modeling in a long time now (just wet FX now with a mixer).

I wouldn’t call it that transparent, it adds a little bit of volume, clips a little bit if I pick hard, but the feel is great. I have it on a true bypass switch so I can toggle it on/off if I feel the need to compare.

 

[7704A]

I wouldn’t call it that transparent, it adds a little bit of volume, clips a little bit if I pick hard, but the feel is great.

Fryette mentioned that recently. Apparently whenever it's re-released it's going to have more headroom.

 

[NorCal_Val]

I use one of these in front of my pedalboard with my tube amps, love it. I used it with my axe FX II also but I havent used its modeling in a long time now (just wet FX now with a mixer).

I wouldn’t call it that transparent, it adds a little bit of volume, clips a little bit if I pick hard, but the feel is great. I have it on a true bypass switch so I can toggle it on/off if I feel the need to compare.

Ah!
My apologies.
I’m using the old VHT Valvulator, not the new modeling version.
The one I’m using is the old one that sorta is brick shaped. It’s just a 12ax7 tube powered buffer.

 

[mnemonic]

Ah!
My apologies.
I’m using the old VHT Valvulator, not the new modeling version.
The one I’m using is the old one that sorta is brick shaped. It’s just a 12ax7 tube powered buffer.

Yeah that’s what I mean, the V1 buffer with power supply.

I also have the GPDI which has a ‘Valvulator buffer output’ but I’ve never compared them.

 

[mentoneman]

i had the og vht on my board and used it in front of my axe ultra but imo it felt like it made the attack more sluggish rather than warming/fattening the tone.