Help with Rack Design?

  • Thread starter Thread starter glpg80
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Purpleibby said:
I actually read the manual for that Unit ha, that unit will NOT work with a GCX.....The GCX has no presets of it's own....it's(GCX) ALL controlled by CC#s...the Ground Control Pro stores the preset information. The boss unit does not have enough CC# it transmits per present to give control information to turn off the loops of the GCX.

Yes you could at one time they have a stereo mod for the GCX....email them and ask them what your options are.
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Bummer. I really want to use the boss ES-8 unit as a CC# number source that can also switch pedals on the ground in front of it. So what do I need to look for to confirm comparability with the ES-8? Or am I going to have to use the GCP to control the GCX AND the ES-8? (And also swap 4 of the loops in the GCX to stereo and keep the other 4 mono so that I can control amp channels)
 
glpg80 said:
Bummer. I really want to use the boss ES-8 unit as a CC# number source that can also switch pedals on the ground in front of it. So what do I need to look for to confirm comparability with the ES-8? Or am I going to have to use the GCP to control the GCX AND the ES-8? (And also swap 4 of the loops in the GCX to stereo and keep the other 4 mono so that I can control amp channels)
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It(ES-8) will store the information for your pedals, but doesn't seem to seen external CC# that you would need to control GCX loops...unless I missed it in the manual....

That musicom lab one I posted will do it, they have a few lower models to fit different rig needs than that one but I would pay close attention to how many each model's external CC# per preset it can send to control the GCX.
 
If it can send out 8x CC#s (CC# 80-87 on midi channel 16...that is Expander 1 in the GCP) in addition to it's saving it's own internal loops it will control the GCX.
 
The Boss ES-8 can send CC commands per preset and be configured to control the GCX:

https://www.boss.info/pl/support/knowledge_base/204839619/
The next question is, can you send CC commands and PC commands at the same time per preset? Rack units are usually PC, the GCX is CC, so I shouldn’t have an issue right?

Edit: looks like you can configure a PC and have the ES-8 also transmit a CC at the same time:

https://www.boss.info/pl/support/knowledge_base/205975985/
The musiccom lab footswitch is great but doesn’t seem like it’s sold in many locations. I also prefer the boss unit for its long term support.

Thanks for the help!
 
glpg80 said:
The Boss ES-8 can send CC commands per preset and be configured to control the GCX:

https://www.boss.info/pl/support/knowledge_base/204839619/
The next question is, can you send CC commands and PC commands at the same time per preset? Rack units are usually PC, the GCX is CC, so I shouldn’t have an issue right?

Edit: looks like you can configure a PC and have the ES-8 also transmit a CC at the same time:

https://www.boss.info/pl/support/knowledge_base/205975985/
The musiccom lab footswitch is great but doesn’t seem like it’s sold in many locations. I also prefer the boss unit for its long term support.

Thanks for the help!
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Great then! It wasn't clear from the manual, or I missed it..I thought it implied it only had 2 per preset, the faq link you posted seems it is saying it will have more!

Rack effects are both most of the time, especially if you want to control parameters within presets. You'll probably want to know how many simultaneous program changes you can sent too with the Boss since you'll have a lot of rack gear, Get that manual on your phone and read through it!
 
Purpleibby said:
Great then! It wasn't clear from the manual, or I missed it..I thought it implied it only had 2 per preset, the faq link you posted seems it is saying it will have more!

Rack effects are both most of the time, especially if you want to control parameters within presets. You'll probably want to know how many simultaneous program changes you can sent too with the Boss since you'll have a lot of rack gear, Get that manual on your phone and read through it!
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When you say multiple program changes, what do you mean? I thought you assign the same program change number for all units at a certain saved preset and then send 1 PC command to recall all of them across all units and it also sends a CC command to control the GCX? Am I wrong on my understanding how a big rack and pedal setup like this works? My only experience is MIDI control of a G major many years ago and dealing with the PC delay.
 
I usually don't line up all patches with my units that way...never. Each rack unit in my setup has it's own Device settings in the GCP where you can name it, set it's midi channel and what Prog Change you want to send per GCP preset. You have 8 Device spaces in memory(that you can name and assign midi channels to globally and more)....So each Device get's a PC# per preset...so that's 8 per preset. Pluss all the CC# and more we talked about earlier

I save sounds randomly, and I have multiple patches that go back to the same sound on a certain unit or whatever I want. It's a lot easier/less hassle this way, and it's better use of internal memory.
 
Purpleibby said:
I usually don't line up all patches with my units that way...never. Each rack unit in my setup has it's own Device settings in the GCP where you can name it, set it's midi channel and what Prog Change you want to send per GCP preset. You have 8 Device spaces in memory(that you can name and assign midi channels to globally and more)....So each Device get's a PC# per preset...so that's 8 per preset. Pluss all the CC# and more we talked about earlier

I save sounds randomly, and I have multiple patches that go back to the same sound on a certain unit or whatever I want. It's a lot easier/less hassle this way, and it's better use of internal memory.
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So when you say 8 PC per preset that means you can configure up to 8 different PC commands on 8 different midi channels for 8 different effects units all being sent by the press of one button on your GCP?

So I need to look to see how many PC can be sent at once? Seems like a very important specification to know if you have a lot of devices that need controlled (on different channels right?)
 
glpg80 said:
So when you say 8 PC per preset that means you can configure up to 8 different PC commands on 8 different midi channels for 8 different effects units all being sent by the press of one button on your GCP?

So I need to look to see how many PC can be sent at once? Seems like a very important specification to know if you have a lot of devices that need controlled (on different channels right?)
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Yup, exactly and all those cc#s/expressions and more too per preset. One switch.. Another bonus is all the IA switches I have assigned/labeled on my GCP/Ground link(16 total IA switches) I can see what's on/off just by looking at my board when I change patches....that helps a lot too. It's instant and awesome.

I would look it up in that manual...I was like "F*#* just show me the specs" when I was reading that manual lol.
 
Purpleibby said:
Yup, exactly and all those cc#s/expressions and more too per preset. One switch.. Another bonus is all the IA switches I have assigned/labeled on my GCP/Ground link(16 total IA switches) I can see what's on/off just by looking at my board when I change patches....that helps a lot too. It's instant and awesome.

I would look it up in that manual...I was like "F*#* just show me the specs" when I was reading that manual lol.
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From what this says, I have to find a version 2 ES-8 which offers the ability to send PC 1-8 at the same time for each preset (same number as the GCP)

It’s stated in the bottom right here:

https://static.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/ES-8_v2_eng01_W.pdf
Which explains why you couldn’t find it in the original version manual because it wasn’t originally supported apparently.
 
glpg80 said:
Which explains why you couldn’t find it in the original version manual because it wasn’t originally supported apparently.
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Right on, thanks! Looks like you have a good plan then! Post some pics when you get your setup all worked out!
 
Purpleibby said:
Right on, thanks! Looks like you have a good plan then! Post some pics when you get your setup all worked out!
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The added advantage of using the Boss ES-8 is that there’s an analog matrix system that can put pedals in series or parallel on the fly which when racked in the rack cannot be done without something like your switchblade. I don’t need the ability in the rack now since all will be in parallel (due to dropouts of PC changes, damn 80’s hardware) so it provides more functionality up front should I need it.

The ES-8 also offers the ability to switch amp channels which frees up the loops in the GCX. This is important because regardless of whether I have the rack effects, I’ll always want the channels changed with at minimum the turning off of a boost pedal at the same time.

It sounds like a solid plan! Thank you for your help and giving some good tips. I’ll certainly post some pictures in the rack thread when I get it all together and a good pedalboard built. The footprint won’t be all that big - very manageable.
 
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PatF said:
This new to the market switcher / mixer by Red Seven has some cool features. A little pricey though.

https://www.redseven-amplification.com/multi-stereo-line-mixer/
I've had a GCX and Ground Control for 20 years. Good bang for the buck. The RJM and Switchblade are great products too.

I'm slowly working on 12U and 20U racks. Just experimenting with different configs. The 20U has an old Roland VS-880EX digital recorder for fx and mixing. I swapped the old spinner hard drive with a Compact Flash card. It works excellent and they can be had for cheap. I bought mine new for a ton of money and hardly used it. So it feels good to repurpose it.
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Old bump but I've just pulled the trigger on one of these mixers.

looks to be exactly what i'm looking for!

I hate having to deal with level knobs on mixers so the fact the new one has none is music to my ears.

The loops up front look great and love how each parallel loop as its own send too.
Perfect for us guitarist with multiple units
 
Currently own 4 pedal boards. 3 large - 1 small

BOSS - ES-8

Voodoo Labs
GCP
System Mix Plus
2 GCX
2 Control Switcher

20 space rack

8 boxers full of pedals
A few rack effects

Probably more....that's off the top of my head.
 
I have the Samson SM-10 with some different rack effects going in parallel, but starting to wonder if it would just be easier to run an Axe FX in the loop for all post gain effects, which I assume would have minimal coloration.
 
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