Hey guys, new here... FX loop question, multiple amps

[glpg80]

I'll go back to the topic and try to understand some of it.

If I have to spend 1800 I will, I simply didnt think what I was asking was as complex as it obviously is.

you dont have to spend 2000 to get a decent W/D/W setup - the setups can be taylor'ed for each person's tone tastes.

you really need to read that topic and understand what people are doing/suggesting and the concept behind it, and not persay the gear itself.

technically speaking that entire thread gets complicated in showing just that lol - there is more than one way to skin a cat

 

[JTyson]

I have a Voodoo switcher, it changes the tone of the guitar too much. The ground lifts work great, no noise, it switches quietly, but I could not get past the tone change. The only way I know how to describe it is "weaker"- Less depth, less sparkle. I really wanted that to be the solution for me, but I have thought about a Lehle Sunday Driver going in to the Voodoo to compensate, I just havent gotten around to trying it. It seems like it might be a solution, though. I havent tried the Lehle switcher's, I've heard good stuff about them, but I heard the same thing about the Voodoo I feel your pain bro There are ways to switch the loops, but not with the Voodoo. Would be willing to bet Dave at Racksystems could build you a switcher that could switch heads and loops at the same time, but for what it would cost, you could buy 2 more G-majors and then some. I would pick the best sounding "dry" head, and leave it dry, and mix the others with the efx you need. It should cut better in a mix, for sure if there is another guitar player in your band, and would save some coin - Jim

Hey dude thanks for the reply.

When people are saying wet/dry, do they mean one amp is clean (no FX) and the other is running wet (with FX)... so I would only be using the FX loop on one of the amps?

I'm leaning towards using 2 speakers and three heads. Mesa Tremoverb, Marshall JCM 2000 and eventually a Orange rockerverb. I want to be able to switch them on and off to experiment with different sounds in different songs.

Maybe I could set one amp completely dry, and then have seperate FX going to the other two?

This also doesnt solve the issue of using multiple amps though... it seems here the VOODOO labs stuff isnt highly regarded... aside from having something custom built is there anything we like here?


Thanks everyone

If you had 3 cabs, you could use 2 Radial Big-Shots (one going into the other) and switch between 3 amps, one at a time, or any combination of the 3. The tone change is very minimal, they have phase switching, and ground lifts, require no power source, and are built like tanks. They are also very inexpensive. You may have to tapdance a bit though, depending on what combination you wanted. You might have to hit 2 of the switches to get where you want to be. Also, there are no status indicators on the Big-Shots, so you have to be sure about what you are switching in-out. Your right, dry is no fx, wet is with. I always had better luck with 1 amp dry in combo with one wet if needed because we had 2 guitar players and it cut through better. The dry amp would be your fundamental tone, and you would mix in, or switch over to the others as needed. Having only 2 cabs would be doable, but more complicated, and require different stuff altogether

 

[Gambit]

I have a Voodoo switcher, it changes the tone of the guitar too much. The ground lifts work great, no noise, it switches quietly, but I could not get past the tone change. The only way I know how to describe it is "weaker"- Less depth, less sparkle. I really wanted that to be the solution for me, but I have thought about a Lehle Sunday Driver going in to the Voodoo to compensate, I just havent gotten around to trying it. It seems like it might be a solution, though. I havent tried the Lehle switcher's, I've heard good stuff about them, but I heard the same thing about the Voodoo I feel your pain bro There are ways to switch the loops, but not with the Voodoo. Would be willing to bet Dave at Racksystems could build you a switcher that could switch heads and loops at the same time, but for what it would cost, you could buy 2 more G-majors and then some. I would pick the best sounding "dry" head, and leave it dry, and mix the others with the efx you need. It should cut better in a mix, for sure if there is another guitar player in your band, and would save some coin - Jim

Hey dude thanks for the reply.

When people are saying wet/dry, do they mean one amp is clean (no FX) and the other is running wet (with FX)... so I would only be using the FX loop on one of the amps?

I'm leaning towards using 2 speakers and three heads. Mesa Tremoverb, Marshall JCM 2000 and eventually a Orange rockerverb. I want to be able to switch them on and off to experiment with different sounds in different songs.

Maybe I could set one amp completely dry, and then have seperate FX going to the other two?

This also doesnt solve the issue of using multiple amps though... it seems here the VOODOO labs stuff isnt highly regarded... aside from having something custom built is there anything we like here?


Thanks everyone

If you had 3 cabs, you could use 2 Radial Big-Shots (one going into the other) and switch between 3 amps, one at a time, or any combination of the 3. The tone change is very minimal, they have phase switching, and ground lifts, require no power source, and are built like tanks. They are also very inexpensive. You may have to tapdance a bit though, depending on what combination you wanted. You might have to hit 2 of the switches to get where you want to be. Also, there are no status indicators on the Big-Shots, so you have to be sure about what you are switching in-out. Your right, dry is no fx, wet is with. I always had better luck with 1 amp dry in combo with one wet if needed because we had 2 guitar players and it cut through better. The dry amp would be your fundamental tone, and you would mix in, or switch over to the others as needed. Having only 2 cabs would be doable, but more complicated, and require different stuff altogether

Hey man this is really helpful.

So if I'm running two amps, one wet and one dry, the FX loop issue becomes a "non-issue" as the FX are only going to one amp.

Now, If I wanted to run three amps, and have two of them wet, and my main tone dry, what would you recommend for that?

The radical big shot looks interesting.... I was so sold on the VOODOO labs amp selecter because it did pretty much exactly what I needed but Im hearing some negative things about it here. The radical sounds good? Does everyone pretty much agree the most effective and inexpensive way to run the multiple amps is with two of these?

So far it sounds the best, when I can afford to have Mr. Bradshaw build me a rig, I will, until then I have to make the best out of what I have and what I can afford.

Thanks so much for the replies. Any additional info very appreciated.

 

[Gambit]

Oh, one last question and this seems pretty self explanatory... running two heads into one cab. You generally go stereo, what is it 8 ohms and 8 ohms?

Thx!

 

[JTyson]

Unless your efx unit is stereo, you would need another one. Im not sure if anyone makes a unit to switch 2 amp loops into one efx unit. You could use a mini mixer to do it, but I'm not sure you would not have a ground loop to contend with. It would suck to get it, and then find out you have a problem. I'm sure some other guys will have other ideas, and have way more complicated stuff than I do, maybe they will chime in. Yes, it would be 8x8 ohm, assuming your spkrs are 16 ohm, I did not realize you had a stereo cab. That will make it easier. The Radials have been good for me, I can only hear a small difference with it in line, they dont cost much, and they hold up. My Voodoo is gathering dust after only a test run. I was really dissapointed. Honestly, your situation would be easily workable if you could get down to 2 amps. Once you go past 2, everything gets considerably more complicated, and much more expensive. It also is more to get through your PA, and have everything balanced out well. I'm not sure what I am telling you is the absolute best route, but it would work, and would be cost effective. Lots of stuff out there I have not touched, and not heard good luck bro

 

[EXPcustom]

Just to add more confusion to this thread check out what this guy did with a Gmajor and Mesa High Gain amp switcher...

http://homepage.mac.com/mesaboogie/switch.html

 

[glpg80]

yeah talk about an information overload. i just re-read through this thread again. poor guy

o well - i hope he can cut down on how many amplifiers he can use at once. otherwise the only option he might have is that 1100 unit steve posted or an 1800 bradshaw unit. and even then that would still be the beginning of a true W/D/W setup which would sound superior to 3 amplifiers at once.

plus, he wouldnt have to worry about phase angles. cut 3 down to 1 and you can save another $1100-$2,000 and not worry about switching at all.

 

[EXPcustom]

yeah talk about an information overload. i just re-read through this thread again. poor guy

o well - i hope he can cut down on how many amplifiers he can use at once. otherwise the only option he might have is that 1100 unit steve posted or an 1800 bradshaw unit. and even then that would still be the beginning of a true W/D/W setup which would sound superior to 3 amplifiers at once.

plus, he wouldnt have to worry about phase angles. cut 3 down to 1 and you can save another $1100-$2,000 and not worry about switching at all.

But what about using a Mesa High Gain Amp switcher with a G-major or maybe a Radial JD7?

I am asking because I have seen people run multi amp rigs with these units on the cheap, I am by no means a expert on this but am just asking because I want to know the answer myself.

 

[Shark Diver]

yeah talk about an information overload. i just re-read through this thread again. poor guy

o well - i hope he can cut down on how many amplifiers he can use at once. otherwise the only option he might have is that 1100 unit steve posted or an 1800 bradshaw unit. and even then that would still be the beginning of a true W/D/W setup which would sound superior to 3 amplifiers at once.

plus, he wouldnt have to worry about phase angles. cut 3 down to 1 and you can save another $1100-$2,000 and not worry about switching at all.

But what about using a Mesa High Gain Amp switcher with a G-major or maybe a Radial JD7?

I am asking because I have seen people run multi amp rigs with these units on the cheap, I am by no means a expert on this but am just asking because I want to know the answer myself.

Yes that can be done. But he is asking about switching cabs and he would have to have loads as well. The Mesa doesn't do that from my understanding. Either would the Little Labs PCP. If you have a cab for each amp it is a little easier. Or one cab multiple amps can be had by a switcher. It's the changing amps and cabs that gets hard. A SwitchBlade Headbone can do all of what he is asking I believe.

 

[stephen sawall]

I screwed around with this stuff for years ..... For me I found picking one amp to be wet (effects loop ~ both amps still get front end effects) and one amp to be dry was what works for me.

You only need a good A/B/Y pedal to do this.

If you go into using more than 2 amps or more than one wet amp it becomes complex and expensive fast.

I also found using separate speakers for both amp more versatile while being simpler in some ways.

 

[JTyson]

One of his cabs is a stereo cab, that does make it simpler. I did not realize that until later

 

[Gambit]

Wow, a lot of good stuff here.

Right now I am leaning towards 2 heads, one wet and one dry. If the time comes that I need FX on both of them I am simply going to buy another FX unit. That solves that problem.

As far as switching amps, I really dont want to switch between them as much as I'd like to run them simultanously. The radial box seems like a good fit and what I'm leaning towards.

Onward. If I wanted to use only certain front end FX on the wet amp, and keep the dry completely dry.... could I go from guitar to the Radial, then the FX pedals and then the respective amps. I'm thinking if I'm going to keep an amp dry, aside from wah and compressor, I might as well keep it totally dry and not run it through delay and flanger pedals and such.

Also, if I was to buy two different TC rack units, would you recommend using both of them on the wet amp, or giving each amp its own FX unit? I am asking because I could double up the FX on one amp, getting a more unique sound... or each amp could have its own FX setting, with different wet/dry settings on independent FX loops. I'm leaning towards the latter.


Cool!

 

[Gambit]

Oh, both my cabs are stereo cabs.

Mesa Trem-o-verb with Mesa Cab
Marshall JCM 2000 with 1960A cab

Eventually going to buy an Orange Rockerverb which would be the third amp
not necessarily going to buy an orange cabinet though

 

[JTyson]

Yes, you can go from the radial to whatever effects and then the amp, but keep your cables as short as possible. If you buy 2 efx units try all the combonations, and go with what works the best. Amps take efx a little differently, mostly because of how the loops are configured, and you dont want to miss a potentially good combo. You can always switch back and forth as far as which one is dry, but you might have to tapdance a bit. Obviously, there are easier ways to get there, but cost is a big factor in doing so. You can always get a controller later, and still use everything you have but the radial, so you wont be flushing much coin down the toilet. - Jim

 

[stephen sawall]

Onward. If I wanted to use only certain front end FX on the wet amp, and keep the dry completely dry.... could I go from guitar to the Radial, then the FX pedals and then the respective amps.


yes you can .....



Also, if I was to buy two different TC rack units, would you recommend using both of them on the wet amp, or giving each amp its own FX unit?.

I like leaving one completely dry ..... who knows what well work for you. My dry amp is almost always a amp with no master volume. A amp that is about power amp distortion. These amps sound like crap most of the time with effects in the loop.

 

[Zachman]

Use one of these: MESA/Boogie High Gain Amplifier Switcher, with a good line mixer, and a line out/load box-- to sum the signal to your effects, and return them to your amps or use a separate power amp to go W/D, and send the summed line signal to your power amp.

Tada, you're done.

http://images.google.com/imgres?img...ox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&sa=N&um=1

 

[Gambit]

Yes, you can go from the radial to whatever effects and then the amp, but keep your cables as short as possible. If you buy 2 efx units try all the combonations, and go with what works the best. Amps take efx a little differently, mostly because of how the loops are configured, and you dont want to miss a potentially good combo. You can always switch back and forth as far as which one is dry, but you might have to tapdance a bit. Obviously, there are easier ways to get there, but cost is a big factor in doing so. You can always get a controller later, and still use everything you have but the radial, so you wont be flushing much coin down the toilet. - Jim

I am definitely buying a controller... leaning towards the ground control pro by voodoo labs. My front end pedals are going to go through 2-3 VOODOO pedal switchers b/c they're true bypasses.... and it can be midi controlled via the GCP.

If you mean controller as in being able to control what amps are running via midi, I dont know anything about that!

I making a new topic as to the GCP and pedal switcher.

best,

 

[Gambit]

Use one of these: MESA/Boogie High Gain Amplifier Switcher, with a good line mixer, and a line out/load box-- to sum the signal to your effects, and return them to your amps or use a separate power amp to go W/D, and send the summed line signal to your power amp.

Tada, you're done.

http://images.google.com/imgres?img...ox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&sa=N&um=1

Hey man, really appreciate your reply, I've never heard of this thing.

I understand how to connect the amps (duh) and instrument (duh)... but what does the line mixer do and what does it connect to on the MESA rack piece. Then would the FX connect to the mixer... and then the mixer is what is connecting to the amps via the MESA piece. I'm really new to all this running cables so even if it seems redundant, I'd really appreciate you going into detail as to what does what and exactly how its connected.

Also, I did a search online and didnt find it anywhere, are they difficult to find?

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

thx mate

 

[Shark Diver]

Use one of these: MESA/Boogie High Gain Amplifier Switcher, with a good line mixer, and a line out/load box-- to sum the signal to your effects, and return them to your amps or use a separate power amp to go W/D, and send the summed line signal to your power amp.

Tada, you're done.

http://images.google.com/imgres?img...ox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&sa=N&um=1

Hey man, really appreciate your reply, I've never heard of this thing.

I understand how to connect the amps (duh) and instrument (duh)... but what does the line mixer do and what does it connect to on the MESA rack piece. Then would the FX connect to the mixer... and then the mixer is what is connecting to the amps via the MESA piece. I'm really new to all this running cables so even if it seems redundant, I'd really appreciate you going into detail as to what does what and exactly how its connected.

Also, I did a search online and didnt find it anywhere, are they difficult to find?

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

thx mate

They don't make this any more. But they are floating around.

 

[stephen sawall]

If you go look at the manuals of the GCX it shows how to switch out preamps and power amps as well as front end effects and loop effects. All controlled by the GCP.

.... I agree if you are new to this stuff .... any normal person would be getting a info overload.