Hey guys, new here... FX loop question, multiple amps

[Gambit]

If you go look at the manuals of the GCX it shows how to switch out preamps and power amps as well as front end effects and loop effects. All controlled by the GCP.

.... I agree if you are new to this stuff .... any normal person would be getting a info overload.

Hey, I've been looking at the GCX too, dont know if I am going to buy one or even need one... this seems like it would be more useful if I was looking to run stompboxes in my FX loop and control it via midi and if I was looking to control amp functions also via midi. I'm looking to simply run rack FX via FX loop and stompboxes infront of my amp, all controlled via midi.

would you agree?

 

[glpg80]

GCX can do it. its what i plan to run with my setup eventually. great unit.

 

[Zachman]

Use one of these: MESA/Boogie High Gain Amplifier Switcher, with a good line mixer, and a line out/load box-- to sum the signal to your effects, and return them to your amps or use a separate power amp to go W/D, and send the summed line signal to your power amp.

Tada, you're done.

http://images.google.com/imgres?img...ox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&sa=N&um=1

Hey man, really appreciate your reply, I've never heard of this thing.

I understand how to connect the amps (duh) and instrument (duh)... but what does the line mixer do and what does it connect to on the MESA rack piece. Then would the FX connect to the mixer... and then the mixer is what is connecting to the amps via the MESA piece. I'm really new to all this running cables so even if it seems redundant, I'd really appreciate you going into detail as to what does what and exactly how its connected.

Also, I did a search online and didnt find it anywhere, are they difficult to find?

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

thx mate

Well... What you are discussing is more complicated than just traditionally connecting amps and instruments.

Lets see:

* Guitar to amp selector, and/or switching system to amp selector
* Amp selector line out to mixer, or switching system
* Mixer outs to FX inputs, and/or Mixer L/R outs to stereo (or mono bridged, but I prefer stereo for a w/d/w configuration) Power amp to wet cab/cabs.

This way all 3 amps can be used simultaneously w/ their own speakers AND take the individual line outs of each amp {Oh ya, depending on the amps, you may want to add a load box to each amp to get a line signal that you can have feed your effects}(summed together, or individually--depending on if you use a switching system or not) into your individual effects and that re-amped effected signal can be run mono or stereo in parallel with your blended direct amp tone.

Best of luck

Sorry for not being too exacting re: inputs/outputs A-Z but the possibilities are numerous and the desire to write a book are not in me.

Hopefully this may spark a few ideas for you.

My rig differs in that I only run one amp at a time-- and have each amp (1-4) through the same cab, but here is my block diagram for you to have a visual aid:

A real pic of the gear family for you:

 

[stephen sawall]

Zachman has one of the coolest rigs around .... see what I mean by crew to set it up ? I can only imagine the money he has in that rig ?

To see if the GCX/GCP does what you want you need to read the manuals and figure out if it well make you happy (or just drive you nuts figuring it out).

I spent month wiring mine up several ways and decided to use it the way described above. I wanted to do something very similar to what you want to do .... and ended up here.

Like he said there is so many variables .... it could go on dam near forever.

 

[Zachman]

Zachman has one of the coolest rigs around .... see what I mean by crew to set it up ? I can only imagine the money he has in that rig ?

To see if the GCX/GCP does what you want you need to read the manuals and figure out if it well make you happy (or just drive you nuts figuring it out).

I spent month wiring mine up several ways and decided to use it the way described above. I wanted to do something very similar to what you want to do .... and ended up here.

Like he said there is so many variables .... it could go on dam near forever.

Aloha Stephen,

Thanks....

Seriously-- my assistant is 5'5" and weighs in at 125 lbs. He and I move this rig with just the 2 of us, and it really isn't a pain at all. Everything has casters, except the pedal board, and that can fit on a hand truck, or on top of the rack as it's being rolled in.

Once everything is staged, to plug in everything and be powered up-- takes less than 5 minutes, because everything is clearly labeled.

I got a lot of the gear in the rig, over a long period of time and trust me, I didn't pay retail for MOST of it. Actually I got a lot of stuff free. I know-- you hate me now, but like all of us here-- I got lucky and came to a place that I was fortunate enough to create my dream rig. A LOT of time went into the design phase of the rig, and it was worth EVERY moment-- because taking on a project like this involves an expense of time, money and approaching things wisely can help one to avoid MUCH unnecessary frustration, and added expenses.

Apologies if I'm wrong, but there is something about the OP that reminds me of Bluesaholick.

 

[stephen sawall]

That would be alright ... but over kill for me. Many of the bands I have been in do only originals .... around here now that means set up tear down and play in less than 35 min. These idiots now do 8 bands a night ..... for these gigs I now bring one amp / cab / and a few (like 2/3) pedals.

But the cover bands I do that would not be all too bad. ..... and I do not hate anyone anymore. It takes up way toooo much of my energy to really enjoy hating ?

 

[Zachman]

That would be alright ... but over kill for me. Many of the bands I have been in do only originals .... around here now that means set up tear down and play in less than 35 min. These idiots now do 8 bands a night ..... for these gigs I now bring one amp / cab / and a few (like 2/3) pedals.

But the cover bands I do that would not be all too bad. ..... and I do not hate anyone anymore. It takes up way toooo much of my energy to really enjoy hating ?

I hear you.

Under that type of time constraint/scenario, I wouldn't use this rig either, nor likely ANY other multi-amp rig. I'd probably use a Boogie combo or something similar, and a few pedals and maybe my Intellifex.

 

[stephen sawall]

That is part of the reason I leave my Mark IV as a combo the last several years. .... I take what I feel the gig needs.

 

[Zachman]

That is part of the reason I leave my Mark IV as a combo the last several years. .... I take what I feel the gig needs.

A B S O L U T E L Y!!!!

I hope nobody thinks I was advocating the big rig as the sole way to approach getting good tone and results. For small to medium size gigs, I use a MKIII 1x12 combo, and LOVE it!!!! I've been using MK Series Boogies since '81.

 

[stephen sawall]

I got my first Boogie in 82 .... I bought a Super Lead and Twin in 76. It was so cool to be able to put my rig behind my seat in my car.

I would hope people see this and realize having a few different rigs can make for a simple reality of what to bring on a given night. From my Fender Champ up to 2 half stacks and my rack. All have a place.

I have seen on your rig and how the Bradshaw stuff could make your rig that much easier to use ..... about 5 min. That is killer.

 

[glpg80]

i've decided im going to build my rack for this same purpose - to have the ability to have the tones i love at more managable levels or at outdoor gigs either way.

the 5150 II will be the "easy grab and go" route for me. im somewhat excited that since i finally fell on a 5150 III that the rack would deliver the extra's that that particular amplifier couldnt for my own personal use.

it will be a long, long road from here.

but i hope to invest in a secret power-amp steal that ive located. hopefully my 1988/89 charvel will sell soon so i can snag that 1 most important piece

thanks for more pics zach - aloha from the other side of the big pond!

 

[Zachman]

i've decided im going to build my rack for this same purpose - to have the ability to have the tones i love at more managable levels or at outdoor gigs either way.

the 5150 II will be the "easy grab and go" route for me. im somewhat excited that since i finally fell on a 5150 III that the rack would deliver the extra's that that particular amplifier couldnt for my own personal use.

it will be a long, long road from here.

but i hope to invest in a secret power-amp steal that ive located. hopefully my 1988/89 charvel will sell soon so i can snag that 1 most important piece

thanks for more pics zach - aloha from the other side of the big pond!

Best of Luck:

Here is Bob Bradshaw going through my rig and explaining it all:

Here is a link to Bob's website, where he explains in a lot more detail how to use the gear that he makes, on a series of videos: Hope this helps you with your endeavor.

http://www.customaudioelectronics.com/custom_shop?view=article&id=8

 

[glpg80]

i havent watched that midi explanation in a long time - that was really cool to see

do you have the one of your friend with long hair playing the setup in a guitar shop of some sort? thats my favorite video in how it captures your setup.

there is a topic that exists already in RT about the rack i was designing - let me see if i can find it for you. maybe you can make some recommendations.

i might update that post to continue the design phase, however money wise it wouldnt make any sense. i couldnt go out and then build any of it persay like some of the members here on the board have the ability to do with gear they decide on.

however nice that would be though..

 

[Zachman]

i havent watched that midi explanation in a long time - that was really cool to see

do you have the one of your friend with long hair playing the setup in a guitar shop of some sort? thats my favorite video in how it captures your setup.

there is a topic that exists already in RT about the rack i was designing - let me see if i can find it for you. maybe you can make some recommendations.

i might update that post to continue the design phase, however money wise it wouldnt make any sense. i couldnt go out and then build any of it persay like some of the members here on the board have the ability to do with gear they decide on.

however nice that would be though..

Oh ya... My buddy Randall., he was trippin out:

There are a lot of REALLY cool CAE pieces (as well as others) floating around on ebay, that one could obtain for less than if ordering new, and without a potential wait time.

I've taken the sport of finding the deal to a level that not many have achieved, I would guess. My 20 space A&S shock rack, I got for $100, the 1210 $600, the PCM80 $600, the A&S floor board 48"x17.5" and case (Free), 4 of the 6 pedals on the tray (Free), the Rack compressor Rocktron 300G free, The tuner $50 etc... The CAE Amp Selector $500, but I had to have Bob modify it (it wasn't the V.1 version-- which allows a load for the unused heads. It was the version like the Mesa Amp switcher). With products like RJM, GCX etc... someone can get themselves into a pretty versatile rig for a lot less than one might think. Of course, the more options and control means you opt for-- means the quicker the price tag goes up.

When I started, I imagined my ultimate rig-- and started looking for those pieces which I would have (eventually in the "dream rig", and started shopping for deals. I figured I'd get pieces slowly over time, and use them in previous rig versions, until I could afford to upgrade/update the rig. One step at a time over a long time, lead me to this rig version.

 

[stephen sawall]

Now I remember why I avoid Bob's web site ..... like many web sites ... I want everything.

 

[Zachman]

Now I remember why I avoid Bob's web site ..... like many web sites ... I want everything.

That actually made me laugh out loud. I can relate, but for me it's like watching a race car crash I guess, it just draws you to it. The guy is so smart, and experienced, that you just know when you get his gear, it'll be done well.

I read and re-read EVERYTHING on his FAQ pages MANY MANY times, while coming up with what I really wanted from this rig-- and I gained some cool ideas as a result.

 

[Gambit]

So much information. I am confused as shit. Your electronic schematic made me feel like I was reading japanese!

To sum up, I am defintely going for the GCP, pedal switchers and possibly a GCX.

For being able to use to amps simultaniously do we like the Mesa Rack piece or the radial more?

Im just not sure where to get the mesa piece b/c its not on ebay and discontinued.

 

[Gambit]

Oh yeah, forgot the FX issue for a moment. One thing at a time. If I need to have Rack FX on more than one of my amps, I am going to buy a seperate piece. Way too much confusion with power amps, line mixers and things I simply dont understand yet.

Im speaking simply as far as using 2-3 amps at once, without the concern of FX... which would be better?

 

[Zachman]

Oh yeah, forgot the FX issue for a moment. One thing at a time. If I need to have Rack FX on more than one of my amps, I am going to buy a seperate piece. Way too much confusion with power amps, line mixers and things I simply dont understand yet.

Im speaking simply as far as using 2-3 amps at once, without the concern of FX... which would be better?

Recommend you take some time to digest the info, and design and build your rig "right" (Maximum efficiency & maximum versatility, w/ the ability to control EVERYTHING-- so you can concentrate on playing music) and avoid the added redundant expenses, and frustration that rushing WILL bring.

I am purposely NOT answering the which is better question, because when approaching a "Rig" design-- the way you do that "Best" imo-- is with an overall cohesive rig's approach. Whether or not something is "better" depends on how it interacts with ALL of your gear to achieve your goals.

 

[EXPcustom]

So much information. I am confused as shit. Your electronic schematic made me feel like I was reading japanese!

To sum up, I am defintely going for the GCP, pedal switchers and possibly a GCX.

For being able to use to amps simultaniously do we like the Mesa Rack piece or the radial more?

Im just not sure where to get the mesa piece b/c its not on ebay and discontinued.

Look into the Radial JD7 It allows you to run multiple amps and have a seperate effects loop that you can turn on and off. Takes care of any phasing issues etc... they show up used often for 5-600 dollars.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/JD7/