Hey guys, new here... FX loop question, multiple amps

[Zachman]

To be honest Zachman .... I learned a few things myself.

Right on... I'm glad to have contributed something positive-- to someone like you, whom I respect.

I now think I have pretty clear picture of what and why your rig is the way it is.

Ya, because I'm a lunatic... and I got most of it for a steal.

Truth is: I got sick of reaching obsolescence w/ the previous rig versions, so I tried to figure out a way to design a rig which would allow me to indulge my whims, and not have to change a thing, if that makes sense. If I want another 'Core amp tone', I just use a different amp w/ the same rig, and as for the selection of processors... I haven't found anything in the last 20+ years that I prefer, and the Eventide affords me a level of comfort with it's versatility-- which will not likely have me approaching it's maximum capacity for a LONG time to come, if ever.

 

[flamekeeper]

Hey dude who started this topic - don't be a tard listening to all the complex bull posted here by other well-meaning dudes who like to hear themselves pontificate and end up over-complicating what you are trying to pull off. Your best answer was one of your earliest answers posted by a dude named jerry dyer back on nov 16. Check it out. Recapping what he said: Use your fav individual tube amp to dial in your fav dry tone and use it as your main amp. (you do that already, right?) Then run the FX loop Send on that amp to the input of your fav stereo FX (chorus, flange, phase, etc) unit. Now run the L/R outs of that FX unit to the respective FX loop Returns of each of two additional slave amps (or a stereo amp w/L&R cabs), each placed at opposite ends (left & right) of your soundstage. Remember, compressor, distortion, gain, wah & volume pedals NEVER go in your FX loop - they go between the guitar and the input to your main amp. Follow this and you will have no ground and phase issues to deal with. You will have an amazing high-quality, wide and varied tone on the cheap offering tons of versatility. You can even go solid-state with your slave amps and nobody will be the wiser thanks to your tubed main amp tone. You can even eliminate one of your slave amp channels and still get decent separation and a nice wide soundstage with your main amp and just one slave channel of your FX unit if $ is tight and you don't want to port the added gear to gigs.

 

[stephen sawall]

flamekeeper ..... welcome to the forum.

 

[Shark Diver]

Doesn't Robert Keeley suggest using a compressor in the loop? He's probably just pontificating though...

 

[EXPcustom]

All the cool guys in the 80's used a Furman PQ3 in the effects loop of their amps.

 

[flamekeeper]

Compressor in the loop WILL color (cancel out) some (much) of the subtle dynamics (attack, harmonics, etc.) of your main amp, affecting your tone signature. Nothing compares to a great amp for deriving great tone. Makes no sense to hobble amp dynamics with a compressor in the FX loop. Compressor should be mildly used at the front end ONLY for compliment & control. Great tones are a factor of the guitar, amp, and player technique...period. FX reliance for tone? Where's the fun, much less the art, in that??? If the purity of great tone and talent don't matter to you, use a cheap solid-state modeling amp only.....which is OK for the right venue....say, the junior-high garage band of 1st year musicians.

 

[Shark Diver]

Compressor in the loop WILL color (cancel out) some (much) of the subtle dynamics (attack, harmonics, etc.) of your main amp, affecting your tone signature. Nothing compares to a great amp for deriving great tone. Makes no sense to hobble amp dynamics with a compressor in the FX loop. Compressor should be mildly used at the front end ONLY for compliment & control. Great tones are a factor of the guitar, amp, and player technique...period. FX reliance for tone? Where's the fun, much less the art, in that??? If the purity of great tone and talent don't matter to you, use a cheap solid-state modeling amp only.....which is OK for the right venue....say, the junior-high garage band of 1st year musicians.

I can understand having an opinion, but saying there is only one way, or better yet, one correct way, is ridiculous. FX reliance for tone? Hmmm, EVH, Hendrix, Billy Corigan, The Edge, etc... Think most of them got past the "junior-high garage band of 1st year musicians"

 

[JTyson]

Gee, I thought a radial A-B box was about as simple and cost effective as it got. One amp wet, one amp dry, Done

 

[flamekeeper]

I'll be signing off for good now as I'm not looking to cross swords with anyone here, but advice is advice and baffle-babble isn't. Shark Diver ..... don't be contradictory with yourself and confuse Gambit in the process. Saying "I have used a Lehle P-splitter with no phase or ground issues. But that's only 2 amps. Also, Egnater makes a really good amp switcher. But again, only one amp at a time." (Gambit asked about multiple amps at a time)

You also say: "So, if you really want 3 amps at once, each in it's own cab, and they all have an fx loop - then I would get a Switchblade. It is 100% routable for your loop sends and returns on the amps plus you would be able to send all 3 amp sends into your fx unit. Quite honestly though I think that would sound really, really bad." (If you think it sounds bad, FOCUS on what sound good, man)

You then went on to describe what didn't work. Again, get to the point of what sounds good and why. How many times did Gambit say he was confused with the complex answers here and that he was concerned about preserving tone? Missing the essence of the advice asked and evolving into a self-promo, "look at all the cool gear I have and know about" forum full of "well you could do this, and you can do that, and you can buy this, and you can buy that" really is useless advice when the one seeking the advice can't PRACTICALLY put to use all the possible permutations that exist for what he's trying to achieve.

L8R boys.....

 

[Shark Diver]

Well since you know nothing about me, must be easy to criticize and run. I have an Egnator amp switcher. I also have a Lehle P-split. Is that bragging? Since for you there is only ONE way to do anything, I guess you don't need to share negative experiences, as well as good. There are multiple ways to run even the simplest rig. Offering no better advice than - "this is the ONLY way" is again, ridiculous. Since, we all have different needs, different likes, and different budgets there is no "best" or "only" way.

My saying you could do this, but I don't think it will work very well, is simply saying - the company advertises that this will work, but in actual practice it may not do what you really hope. When I was looking for different solutions to running rigs certain ways I looked, and still do, into many different products. Why not share that experience, even if it is negative. That is what this forum is about. (I didn't get into enough detail about the switchblade. It was a piece of equipment that would do what he asked, so get it - but I don't think it would sound good and I wouldn't get it - but he might. Worth checking out for him)

Gambit may be confused. But that doesn't mean I should treat him as though he can't read, digest. and process information. He is welcome to pick and chose what sounds reasonable to him. He should do a lot of homework, listen to many conflicting ideas, and pick what fits his needs. Telling him there is "only ONE" way is not helpful. Not sharing negative experiences, again, not helpful.

Stay on the forum. Enjoy. But if choose to make absolute statements, don't be surprised if someone calls you on them. There are no absolutes in being creative with any tool a person choose to create with.

And saying what gear you own or have used is not bragging. It simply gives a reference point to what my knowledge base might be on the gear of which I am commenting. Many, many people on here have much better gear, many have what would be considered by some as not as good. I don't care. Too many people on here can make even the worst gear sound amazing to get into cork sniffery. And I'm sure some of us can make even the best amp sound, well, mot so good.

No crossing of swords, just a friendly internet debate. Good, healthy, informative. I encourage you to stay and contribute. Conflicting, varied advise is what makes this a good forum.

 

[Zachman]

Hey dude who started this topic - don't be a tard listening to all the complex bull posted here by other well-meaning dudes who like to hear themselves pontificate and end up over-complicating what you are trying to pull off. Your best answer was one of your earliest answers posted by a dude named jerry dyer back on nov 16. Check it out. Recapping what he said: Use your fav individual tube amp to dial in your fav dry tone and use it as your main amp. (you do that already, right?) Then run the FX loop Send on that amp to the input of your fav stereo FX (chorus, flange, phase, etc) unit. Now run the L/R outs of that FX unit to the respective FX loop Returns of each of two additional slave amps (or a stereo amp w/L&R cabs), each placed at opposite ends (left & right) of your soundstage.

Are you referring to the "complex bull" that Bob Bradshaw was explaining in the videos?

How does this allow him to do what he was after (blending 3 amps)?

Remember, compressor, distortion, gain, wah & volume pedals NEVER go in your FX loop - they go between the guitar and the input to your main amp.

Compressors have been 'widely' used in the loops of amps for 20+ years

Follow this and you will have no ground and phase issues to deal with.

How are you so sure?

You will have an amazing high-quality, wide and varied tone on the cheap offering tons of versatility.

An Axe-FX w/ a power amp will give him that, but that wasn't what his specs were either.

You can even go solid-state with your slave amps and nobody will be the wiser thanks to your tubed main amp tone.

That is definitely NOT true, since not all SS amps are equal. A Rocktron Velocity100 (An amp that I had-- hated it, compared to the obviously better sounding Mesa Simul395-- which replaced it)

You can even eliminate one of your slave amp channels and still get decent separation and a nice wide soundstage with your main amp

I'm pretty sure his "main amp sound" goal was to blend all the amps together

and just one slave channel of your FX unit if $ is tight and you don't want to port the added gear to gigs.

With the budget he has stipulated, he could just get an Axe-FX rig for those occasions. and... it's even easier.