-high gain German gas-

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sg guy

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-I'm thinking I need some German, high gain brootz-

-I've owned a Herbert & Fireball-

-I want something with a raw, unpolished voicing, I've never played a FRAMUS, the clips sound bad ass, I wouldn't have a problem going back to ENGL or DIEZEL either, I like simple amps, I love one trick pony's, don't need no stinking clean channel, or more than one channel!!

-what say yee brah's of the brootz!!!...
 
Diezel Big Max could be cool. Single channel Diezel; kinda the same idea I think as the Soldano Avenger.
 
Having owned five diezel models I will say they are NOT raw. Extremely refined. Hagen is more raw than some others but def does NOT fit the bill. Diezels filter off much of the high highs that add to rawness.

I would have suggested an engl but you have that covered. The HKs I have owned were also more refined than raw. The framis drsgon I had was pretty raw for SLO/MESA topology but was dissapointing in terms of build quality. The Cobras I have heard sounds very agressively raw.



When I think of all the amps that I have owned that were German Id have to say Bogner. The twin jet is a "two trick pony" that fits your criteria perfectly. (Built in USA i know lol)

I A/B twin jet and hagen often. They were night and day.
 
sg guy":10gafi9n said:
-I'm thinking I need some German, high gain brootz-

-I've owned a Herbert & Fireball-

-I want something with a raw, unpolished voicing, I've never played a FRAMUS, the clips sound bad ass, I wouldn't have a problem going back to ENGL or DIEZEL either, I like simple amps, I love one trick pony's, don't need no stinking clean channel, or more than one channel!!

-what say yee brah's of the brootz!!!...
Click to expand...
Well...knowing WHY you made this thread :D , easy....
Engl Savage 60 or 120.

If you don't need a clean channel, Crank the rhythm Channel (S60) to noon or even higher, Lead Gain to 3/4ths with Lead Boost on and blast away.

Otherwise, VHT/Fryette Pitbull series probably.
 
I would have suggested a Savage 120 if you wanted to go back to Engl, but considering you said you don't want more than one channel that'd be out. I own the FB100 and the Savage, and while I love the FB the Savage is definitely more raw and crunchy sounding. I don't play cleans at all, and I only play on ch 1 crunch for classic rock stuff occasionally, but I have to say Ch 2 lead mode (what most call Ch 4) is straight up brutality in a box.
 
Diezel Einstein with EL34. Otherwise I would consider the Engl retro tube. These two based on the fact that you asked also for simplicity ;)
 
Einstein is not raw. Clear, brighter but refined. Ive been playing one for 8 years. I choose it for "vintage" qualities .

Actually if the OP truly wants "unpolished" Id def not reccommend diezel, at all.
 
-so all DIEZEL's have that same basic tone? I thought the new Big Max was a 50 watt single channel amp voiced like channel 3 of the VH4 except meaner!

-I would have no problem with going back to DIEZEL or ENGL, I do remember hearing about issues with the FRAMUS COBRA & DRAGON, I'm not a fan of H&K, that's the exact sound I don't want, is this all my choices?
 
Get a Fortin Killer Kali ++ and use a bottle of sauerkraut as a place to prop your tuner.
 
Does the Hagan cut through? A general issue I have had with Diezels in general. Not percussive enough..or too compressed and mushy.
 
I would not be looking at any of the brands mentioned here for a raw, unpolished sound. For that, I think the best options are the older mark series amps (especially a iic+ if you can find one) or an old modded Marshall by either Kruse, Gower, or Cameron (Kruse is also technically German I think if that even matters). That being said I found the Artist Edition to be the most raw and my favorite of the Engls and the VH4 to be the most raw, organic sounding Diezel, but I still haven't gotten to try the Paul or Big Maxx. Other than the VH4, the other Diezels sounded kinda processed to me for the most part (opposite of raw) and I felt similarly about most other Engls too. I remember when I tried the Hagen, it sounded really good at first, but then I tried a Cameron Atomica right after, and the Hagen sounded comparatively processed/inorganic and something about it's crunch on powerchords just sounded really fake/inauthentic to me
 
At one point I looked at my amps and I had a DMoll, Cobra, and Kemper. All awesome in their own way. FWIW, the DMoll is the only one left after some GAS flippage.
 
For raw, I always tend to lean towards the Mark series. If you can find a Mark III, these are the definition of raw, so much so that if you play one, it'll make you a better player because of how raw, in your face, and unforgiving they are. Yes, they have three channels, but depending on the gig, I'll just set it to lead, and I'll use my guitar's volume knob to get my cleans, which are pretty snappy!

Engls and the Framus Cobta have a rawness about them too. If you were looking for an amp that is highly responsive, I'd also check into a VHT/Fryette. They're super saturated, so they may not be as raw as you're looking for, but they track so quick that they pick up on little things like touch sensitivity and how hard you hit the strings. They're saturated, but they are also fairly unforgiving.
 
I own the Diezel Fokker which is probably a bit more raw than other Diezels.
The amp has treble, but no high mids (2-3kHz). For me it is not a raw amp.
If you search my nick in the forum, you'll find quite a few clips of the amp.
 
Remember he said a German amp. So, all your marks and Camerons and Fortiniedmans don't cut it.

All the Diezels are not going to provide a super "raw" sound. The VH4 is probably the closest to that out of the lineup. No one knows on the Big Max or the VH2 because they aren't even on the market yet.

Other than maybe the Savage, I doubt ENGL can deliver anything that would be considered very very "raw."

That leaves Bogner and Framus. Early Uberschalls are not very raw, at least I don't think my rev 2 is. I'd take a Twin Jet over a rev 2. Have no clue on a rev blue, those aren't very desirable.

That leaves the Framus Cobra. The Cobra with a Maxon 808 in front is probably the most brutal tube amp on earth. Get the front loaded greenback Cobra cab to match and nothing can really compare for all out down tuned nastiness in my opinion. The Cobra is as close to "raw" as it can likely get coming from Germany, when compared to the other options.
 
Starman22":358j5zbg said:
Get a Fortin Killer Kali ++ and use a bottle of sauerkraut as a place to prop your tuner.
Click to expand...


-baaaahaha!!!... Is mike doing mod's again? I've got him on my Facebook, thought he wasn't doing any mods right now, would love to get my hands on a Meshugah amp,

-the Savage is interesting, seems to have a mid snarl that the low mid voiced fireball didn't, I've been impressed with the retro, but I'm not sure if its raw enough, I've never played one,

-I also had a uber rev, 2 green, great amp, but just not for me, had a dullness to it I hear in most bogners,

-the mesa mark series might be an option, had a mark IV, but it was a long time ago, it was my first non-marshall, I know I didn't give it a fair chance, I think I flipped it with in a month, I like the tone of TMM's modded MK III,

-I haven't heard any of the KRUSE mods, other than de-comp mod,..

-I've had pit bull, great amp, hmmmm.

-oh one more thing, I run a stereo rig, the other amp is a WIZARD MC I updated to a MC II.

-I'm leaning towards FRAMUS, MARK III, SAVAGE-(is there a voicing difference between the 60 & 120watter's, the 60 runs EL34's, the 120 KT88's?)-VHT,... dudes! I'm running out of amps!!.. Oh what about the ARCHON!.. its definitely got the low end, but does it got the growl?
 
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