Honda Walk Behind Mowers

[IndyWS6]

So… Bit of a rant. Stick with me…

Way back when, I had a Toro, self-propelled, rear-drive, walk behind mower. Don’t remember the model. It was the shit. I maintain my tools and it lasted 17 years before the Briggs coughed a rod through the bottom of the case. I tried to replace it with a new one but they changed they changed the self-propel system significantly. I wasn’t a fan, so I bought a Honda (self-propelled, rear-drive, walk behind) mower. Wasn’t cheap, but legendary reliability, right? Started first pull nearly every time, but barely 5 years in, it wouldn’t roll backwards. I’m mechanically inclined, did some research, tried all the fixes. No dice. Replacement parts were just north of half the cost of replacement, so I sold it for parts

Turns out that it was a known engineering defect that was (supposedly) corrected. I looked back to Toro, but they were still using a “self-pace” drive system I hated so, I bought another Honda. I liked everything else about it and the problem had been solved, so that made sense, right? Yeah, no… Turns out they didn’t fix shit. Three years in (7 years of ownership because I bought a Deere ZTR and didn’t use it), it would not roll backwards. Fu#^….

I spent about 8 hours in the garage over the last two days drinking, cussing and using damn-near every (F’n metric) tool I own to beat that son of a bitch into submission. I went into the project with the mindset that I would fix it - or set it on fire. It now’s roll backwards.

TLD;R version.
1) Don’t believe the hype that everything Honda is reliable.
2) Honda mowers are average, at best
3) Toro needs to go back to their roots
4) I’m at the stage where I want my shit to work - without working on things

 

[Geo]

So… Bit of a rant. Stick with me…

Way back when, I had a Toro, self-propelled, rear-drive, walk behind mower. Don’t remember the model. It was the shit. I maintain my tools and it lasted 17 years before the Briggs coughed a rod through the bottom of the case. I tried to replace it with a new one but they changed they changed the self-propel system significantly. I wasn’t a fan, so I bought a Honda (self-propelled, rear-drive, walk behind) mower. Wasn’t cheap, but legendary reliability, right? Started first pull nearly every time, but barely 5 years in, it wouldn’t roll backwards. I’m mechanically inclined, did some research, tried all the fixes. No dice. Replacement parts were just north of half the cost of replacement, so I sold it for parts

Turns out that it was a known engineering defect that was (supposedly) corrected. I looked back to Toro, but they were still using a “self-pace” drive system I hated so, I bought another Honda. I liked everything else about it and the problem had been solved, so that made sense, right? Yeah, no… Turns out they didn’t fix shit. Three years in (7 years of ownership because I bought a Deere ZTR and didn’t use it), it would not roll backwards. Fu#^….

I spent about 8 hours in the garage over the last two days drinking, cussing and using damn-near every (F’n metric) tool I own to beat that son of a bitch into submission. I went into the project with the mindset that I would fix it - or set it on fire. It now’s roll backwards.

TLD;R version.
1) Don’t believe the hype that everything Honda is reliable.
2) Honda mowers are average, at best
3) Toro needs to go back to their roots
4) I’m at the stage where I want my shit to work - without working on things

Sounds like a wheel ratchet problem. Unless the newer models don't have them any more.

Up until about the year 1996 Honda made the most reliable indestructible mowers. Then came the Harmony series which was an Americanized Honda.

No longer was it the best money can buy, it was the best for the money.

The Honda that built that sterling reputation has been gone a long time.

Japan Honda still builds top notch shit but not American Honda.

 

[IndyWS6]

It’s not the “ratcheting” pinion drive - the pinion gears are actually protected from debris. Unfortunately, Honda doesn’t seal the bushings in the height adjuster castings where the axle rides and debris from the deck blasts the area. It doesn’t take long before the steel axle (not the bushing) is scored and pitted. Friction = 100, motion = 0. It’s a “class-action lawsuit” level engineering mistake. That opinion is from someone who spent nearly 20 years as a product designer…

 

[Geo]

It’s not the “ratcheting” pinion drive - the pinion gears are actually protected from debris. Unfortunately, Honda doesn’t seal the bushings in the height adjuster castings where the axle rides and debris from the deck blasts the area. It doesn’t take long before the steel axle (not the bushing) is scored and pitted. Friction = 100, motion = 0. It’s a “class-action lawsuit” level engineering mistake. That opinion is from someone who spent nearly 20 years as a product designer…

It must be a Harmony, the drive systems and components were very cheap. Engine good, deck good, poor drive train.

But even the consumer grade Honda engines are way better than any other brand in the same price range.

A chain is only as strong as the weakest link.

 

[IndyWS6]

Not sure what you mean by “Harmony”. It’s this one. “HRR” series..,

 

[Geo]

Not sure what you mean by “Harmony”. It’s this one. “HRR” series..,

Yeah, decent mower for a decent price.

In the 80's and early 90's I was selling this mower the HR214 SXA for about $679. It was made to last forever.

Commercial engine, aluminum or steel decking, drive shaft driven transaxle.

It was sometimes hard to get people into that price range, but they never regretted it.

 

[IndyWS6]

The first one I had was about that price. The second one was about $100 more. They are just north of $900 these days.

 

[Geo]

Here you go, I am surprised it's not more money. But it also looks like they discontinued it.

 

[IndyWS6]

That’s commercial… This is the modern day residential equivalent. Still stupidly expensive. Looks like they might be phaseout gas mowers for rechargeable versions. Idiots…

 

[Geo]

That’s commercial… This is the modern day residential equivalent. Still stupidly expensive. Looks like they might be phaseout gas mowers for rechargeable versions. Idiots…

Back then, there was no such thing as commercial for Honda.

They just made cheaper mowers and named them Premium Residential. Or as I called it, junk like everyone else's mower.

The mower pictured has an aluminum bore engine and belt driven transaxle, probably made by Spicer.

 

[IndyWS6]

I just need it for trim mowing (along the fences and planted areas, around the pool deck, etc.). I use the ZTR for everything else, although it kinda sucks when in mulch mode…

 

[Floyd Eye]

Only thing I trust on Hondas is the motors. That’s what my generator ( not a Honda) has a Honda motor on it.

I bought a Husqvarna self propelled mower in 2017. Still starts on the first pull and works perfectly.

 

[JDs Couch]

We run 2 Honda commercial mowers that have been bulletproof. Sharpen the blades, use good gas for the fall shutdown etc. I'm looking forward to the time when battery mowers become viable for all day work. It's coming soon, just now it would be expensive. 2 stroke engines are dirty and loud, and toxic for the people running them. All our other tools besides the mowers are electric; string trimmers, hedge trimmers, chainsaws and blowers are all Stihl battery models.

 

[Geo]

Only thing I trust on Hondas is the motors. That’s what my generator ( not a Honda) has a Honda motor on it.

I bought a Husqvarna self propelled mower in 2017. Still starts on the first pull and works perfectly.

The Honda General Purpose Engine Division is uber important to them. It's a world wide product. Right below cars and motorcycles.

They can't care less for the commercial lawn and garden market in North America, they just never wanted it.

 

[Geo]

Landscapers are just one step above the rat in the biological life cycle.

 

[IndyWS6]

Only thing I trust on Hondas is the motors. That’s what my generator ( not a Honda) has a Honda motor on it.

I bought a Husqvarna self propelled mower in 2017. Still starts on the first pull and works perfectly.

I’ve had good luck with the Honda engines (3 different mowers). I’m waiting on a new carb for the one mentioned above because it surges unless it’s under load. It’s my fault - I hadn’t used it much and forgot to drain the tank and run it dry before winter and gummed it up. I could clean and rebuild it, but the parts cost more than an OEM carb ($28)…

 

[Geo]

Just an FYI, all the GC/GCV engines require a 5 hour break in oil change. Mucho importante.

 

[Nigel]

Love my Honda powered mower, on its 6th season. Just change the oil and filter, run exclusively ethanol free gas and it usually starts on the first pull and purrs like a kitten.

 

[CRAIG4FSU]

I have a few Honda brand items. No problems at all. I change the oil and the plugs now and then and they crank right up.

 

[Geo]

I’ve had good luck with the Honda engines (3 different mowers). I’m waiting on a new carb for the one mentioned above because it surges unless it’s under load. It’s my fault - I hadn’t used it much and forgot to drain the tank and run it dry before winter and gummed it up. I could clean and rebuild it, but the parts cost more than an OEM carb ($28)…

For Honda carbs to run smooth at high RPM, the low speed, transition ports and the high speed jetting all need to be cleaned as they are all in play during high RPM's.