Hot Pick-Ups vs Low Out Put ? Differences?

[danjovi]

Could someone tell me the basic tonal differences in a high output vs low output pick up? say something low from AII 8.3k-8.9 vs Alnico V 14k-16.7k

The advantages and disadvantages?

I know that the higher the output it adds a little bit more grit to your sound but thats all i know really about the higher out puts

Which tend to be "brighter" out of the 2?

 

[MitchSchaft]

Low output will have a flubby, big low end. High output will be tighter and brighter.

 

[dave_mc]

^ yeah, it depends on the magnet too- the alII is going a long way to making that low end "flubby". alV should be tighter, even if it were the same "hotness".

I think.

EDIT: basically, with lower output you get better cleans, and more vintage-sounding distortion.

higher output gets better (more modern) distortion, and worse cleans.

at its simplest.

 

[Anonymous]

If you have a high distortion amp, such as a Diezel VH4, Herbert, or an Einstein where the distortion of the amp is what you are basically buying the amp for, you DO NOT want high ouput pickups mucking up the sonic qualities of such an amp.

The clean channel of these amps are also spectacular, so you want to be able to get both clean and distortion from the amp. With high-output pickups this is going to defeat the purpose of having such an amp.

High ouput pickups will work better with a single channel amp where you want to hit the input stage harder to get the amp to break up easier.

Also, with all the foot toys out today that are distortion oriented, why have high ouput pickups where you have no ability to back off of all the higher gain and get nice sweet cleans?!

High output pickups were originally designed when amps had no master volume controls back in the early 1970's and people wanted to over drive the amps, and the companies have kept the pickup lines they made back then.

There are a lot of manufacturers today making PAF clones and other versions of lower output pickups as these are in the most demand.

Versions made with alnico II magnets have different response and tone properties then those made with alnico III, IV or V magnets, in addition to the thickness or gauge of the wire used and the number of turns.
This is why there are so many variations to even one type of basic sound.

Then there is the response that each pickup will have in each guitar, which again will be different.

Welcome to the frustration!

 

[dave_mc]

^ i agree up to a point.

But i've found that even modern high gain amps sound more "metal" with high output pickups.

I wouldn't just say "you're wrong" to someone who wants high gain pickups for a high gain amp- they may be after overkill, lol.

 

[cvansickle]

Lindy Fralin has a good piece about this very topic in the current Musicians Hotline magazine. In a nutshell, high output pickups have a lot of compression, lower ouput pickups are more open sounding. Lower output pickups "hear" every little bit of your technique, including your mistakes.

Click here to read it!

 

[ratter]

I don't think you can generalize. It depends on the pickup, the height of the pickup, the guitar, and the rest of the chain. I also disagree with Fralin that a low-output pickup is more dynamic. A high output pickup by definition has more dynamic range, from 0 (no sound) up through its output ceiling (which again, by definition, is higher than that of a low-output pickup). That's just IMHO.

 

[MrDan666]

I tend to find that AlnicoII sounds warmer and slightly smoother to my ears! One of the reasons why i love the Duncan Custom Custom

 

[dave_mc]

^ yeah, but if you want a face-melting modern metal tone, al II is a bad choice, IMO. It sounds quite "mushy" with a lot of gain...

 

[MrDan666]

^ yeah, but if you want a face-melting modern metal tone, al II is a bad choice, IMO. It sounds quite "mushy" with a lot of gain...

Yup AlnicoII doesnt suit modern metal IMO. Id go with either Alnico5 or Ceramic for the modern metal tones!

 

[Variable]

I think the pickup's design rather than output will affect whether or not it does well in certain situations. For example, I personally think the Duncan Screamin' Demon is a great pickup for metal because it's crazy tight, has lots of high end, but isn't harsh or ice-picky. However, it has barely more output than a '59, and much less output than a J.B.

The Anderson H3 in my ASAT Deluxe is about the same output as a J.B., maybe a little hotter, but it sucks ass for tight metal chording because the bottom end is so huge. Palm mutes flub out. The Rio Grande BBQ in my Agile 2800 is about the same output but is ten times better at metal because it's a very scooped voice with lots of cutting treble.

I think the reason why some might say higher output humbuckers are better for metal isn't necessarily the high output, but rather the fact that these humbuckers tend to have a more metal voiced eq-spectrum.

 

[dave_mc]

      

Yup AlnicoII doesnt suit modern metal IMO. Id go with either Alnico5 or Ceramic for the modern metal tones!

yeah. I'd say ceramic is probably best suited- but alnico V is nice as it gets you close enough to modern metal, without totally ruining your chances of decent vintage/rock tones as well.

   

I think the pickup's design rather than output will affect whether or not it does well in certain situations. For example, I personally think the Duncan Screamin' Demon is a great pickup for metal because it's crazy tight, has lots of high end, but isn't harsh or ice-picky. However, it has barely more output than a '59, and much less output than a J.B.

The Anderson H3 in my ASAT Deluxe is about the same output as a J.B., maybe a little hotter, but it sucks ass for tight metal chording because the bottom end is so huge. Palm mutes flub out. The Rio Grande BBQ in my Agile 2800 is about the same output but is ten times better at metal because it's a very scooped voice with lots of cutting treble.

I think the reason why some might say higher output humbuckers are better for metal isn't necessarily the high output, but rather the fact that these humbuckers tend to have a more metal voiced eq-spectrum.

seconded. mostly the lower output pickups are voiced for vintage tones, though.

 

[Bugsy]

         

^ yeah, it depends on the magnet too- the alII is going a long way to making that low end "flubby". alV should be tighter, even if it were the same "hotness".

I think.

EDIT: basically, with lower output you get better cleans, and more vintage-sounding distortion.

higher output gets better (more modern) distortion, and worse cleans.

at its simplest.

+1

Cleans sound better on low output pups.

Another difference I noticed between low and high output pups is feedback. Pushing gobs of gain through low output pickups will make them squeal like a pig, whereas higher output pickups can handle the gain and won't feedback as much.