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Mr. Willy
Well-known member
A Christian is someone who follows the teachings of Jesus thereby doing the will of God, someone who has been washed in his blood and has been born again. A Christian is someone who follows the Word and walks in the light.
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MistaGuitah
Well-known member
Well, that would be the effortful answer of a typical churchgoer. It shows that you have some idea of soteriology. What I was looking for was the onion answer that only the spiritual maturity can provide. What that means is there is an essential answer that must be peeled back layer by layer (that is, cross and chain-referencing scripture) to reveal a broad and very deep-rooted meaning that ties perfectly into thousands of things in the Old Testament.
I'll start at the top layer and show you how to break it down. It should be very eye-opening for you and you will gain a much better grasp of scripture altogether. First, let me pose a few questions for you.
1. Why do people wear crosses around their necks?
2. Who is holy?
3. What is the meaning of the cross?
These questions are meant to be answered quickly without any referencing or contemplation. if you think about them before answering then you'll lose the whole effect. That is for later.
Now for the definition of a Christian. Go back to the Old Testament and ask yourself, who were the followers of GOD? You cannot understand Christianity without figuring this out first. Let me step you through it.
Why was Abraham the father of Israel? There are three answers: He was the father of Jacob (Israel), because of a promise, and because he was called by GOD. These three things are key. So we can break it down into it's basic order: calling, promise, blessing.
Then, who was Moses? GOD said two things about Moses: "Out of Egypt I called my son" and "Moses was the most humble man in the world."
Now ask yourself, where did Mary and Joseph take Jesus to protect Him from Herod? Answer: they went to Egypt. Now, when Jesus left Egypt, he followed His calling, led by an OT promise (Psalm 110, "The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool"), and received His blessing ("The Holy Spirit descended on Him like a dove").
Now we have Abraham, Moses, and Jesus all of the same model: calling, promise, blessing. Abraham followed the call, kept faith in the promise, and was blessed as the "father of many nations."
Keep in mind I'm being very rudimentary here because it would be overwhelming for you to understand fully all at once, and it would take a lot of time to type on my phone. This is just to get you started with the right thinking.
Now, ask yourself, who is Jesus Christ? The book of John says, "In the beginning was the word, and the word was with GOD, and the word was GOD" then says, "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life." In Revelation, Jesus is "the alpha and omega, first and the last, beginning and the end, the one who was and who is and who is to come."
Therefore, Jesus is the genesis of all things as "in Him was life," and "all things were made by Him." Now, we have to go back a step and put a few things together.
Yku have Abraham, Moses, Jesus all of the same model right? So Moses being "the most humble man in the world" is a model of Jesus who "Made himself a little lower than the angels." Jesus humbled Himself to die on the cross for our sins. Therefore, who is the most humble man in the world? Then when Jesus, in faith, followed the calling of GOD based on a promise, Jesus received the reward, "Seated at the right hand of the Father."
Are you starting to understand the pattern here. Remember, this is really stripped down and basic but you should start getting the idea.
Now, if we are Christians, we are born again in the same model as Abraham, Moses, and Jesus. Therefore, a Christian is the called of GOD who receive the Spirit of GOD who have faith in the promise of GOD, and then we're blessed with eternal life.
Ah, so now we're beginning to build a rudimentary definition of a Christian. So let's build a simple working definition just to start:
A Christian is the called of GOD, who receives the Spirit of Christ (1 Peter 1:11) through death and and reborn to conform to the image of Jesus (Colossians 1, "Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature"), sealed for the day of redemption, and heirs of the promise.
Now, though this is extremely trimmed down, you can begin to see the depths of my definition vs yours. Your definition is not necessarily incorrect, rather, fundamental and lacks maturity. I hope you understand that I'm speaking here in specific bible terms so don't think words like lack are a criticism. To understand this, Paul refers to the very first, most very basic principles of salvation as "milk" (1 Corinthians 3, "I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able").
So your definition is one gained by drinking milk, that is, hovering some time over the "rudiments of scripture." You have several simple concepts loosely threaded together without depth. With spiritual maturity (practice of the senses, increasing in the knowledge of GOD), your definition develops because you begin to understand very simple concepts in Christology, Protology, Soteriology, Paterology, etc.
So forget what you think Christianity means because you and most people learn the worldly definition, but the world doesn't define Christianity, the bible does. Knowing that one fact will open up a whole universe of understanding for you.
This is just an oversimplified introduction just to point you in the right direction and start to form the right mentality. Don't think like, "Well I did say this and I meant that" because this is not about correcting you or proving you wrong but showing you the door to better understanding.
As for your list, I'll explain it's flaws tomorrow because this was a lot for one post. For now, I hope you enjoy the new awakening.
Mr. Willy
Well-known member
Ok. I gave a simple answer, and now you’ve insulted me for my short answer by insinuating that I’m “not mature” and still feeding on “milk.” I know what you’re trying to do. I’m not going to discuss this further with you online. I defined Christianity EXACTLY how the scripture defines it, my friend. You may think you’re coming off non aggressive, but you’re coming off as arrogant and preachy, which turns most folks off in these types of discussions. I appreciate your knowledge, you’ve obviously spent a lot of time contemplating deep things. I know what a Christian is. I know what the Bible teaches. I do not need a lecture from you to elaborate some “deep truth only you know” to me. Everything I said is true, right, and backed by scripture. Have a good one!
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Strandberg Junkie
Banned
member
None of your business.
Doesn't it mean anything to you that you not only have non-believers like me
giving you shit for your overall attitude on this, you've also got some pretty devout
people of faith telling you you're doing it wrong too?
A true Christian would step back and take some time to reflect on these things.
Jebus, this is like a Red Sox player telling a Yankee how to improve his swing.
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Beater
Banned
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What led to your born again status? I’m finding most of the super religious people here are born agains. It usually coincides with a persons rock bottom. What was your rock bottom that led to you being born again?
Beater
Banned
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A book can have merit without being true.
The cross represents personal sacrifice.
MadAsAHatter
Well-known member
This alignment has happened at least 5 times in the last 1000 years - 2017 1827, 1483, 1293, and 1056. The 12 stars part is also debatable. It uses the 3 planers and 9 stars of the constellation Leo. But there are more stars that make up that constellation. The 9 are the brighter ones that show the outline. Though many star maps use 10 or even 11 stars to outline Leo which would then make a crown of 13-14 stars, not 12.
Not saying anyone's wrong. Just that certain things are up for interpretation and no one actually knows exactly when the world will "end". Even what the end of the world would look like can be interpreted differently depending on your personal views.
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Strandberg Junkie
Banned
member
I purposely stayed away from Alcoholics Anonymous when I quit because I didn't want to be
around folks who traded in their addiction to a bottle for an addiction to a book.
Not sweeping with a broad brush here. Just didn't want to spend time drinking terrible coffee
while listening to someone like MistaGuitah rambling on all night.
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W
WEF Chairman
Banned
Well-known member
Definitely CCN.
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WEF Chairman
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WEF Chairman
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Delusional
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MistaGuitah
Well-known member
If I did something against you as you have accused me of, then why on earth have I take the time, quoted many scriptures, and walk you through all of it with sound doctrine? You're not making any sense man, and taking it all the wrong way.
Proverbs 15, "He that refuseth instruction despiseth his own soul: but he that heareth reproof getteth understanding."
Are you a preacher? Have you dedicated your life to GOD? The bible says to "meditate on the word of GOD day and night" and to "pray without ceasing." Be honest here man, do you really follow the bible wholeheartedly with that kind of consistent dedication? Have you ever undertaken a serious, years long study of theology? Do you literally study the bible every single day and night, and engage in constant, ceaseless prayer and supplication? Come on man, we both know you haven't begun to reach that kind of maturity; and saying this is not a cause for offense. You should recognize the riches I have given you.
Not once did I question your faith or your credibility. I am a servant of GOD, a preacher of righteousness. Do you not know what the bible orders us to do? I did exactly what the bible told me to do, so pay attention carefully:
2 Timothy 4, "I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom: Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching."
Ask yourself, who in this entire forum is deeply rooted in scripture? Who here is like me who really knows scripture and breathes it? You haven't once references scritpure in all that you have said. I, on the otherhand, have laid out solid, fluent cases with the scriptures.
Think about it man. No one can do what I do unless they're anointed and deeply rooted in scripture. People can try to search verses and reference things all they want, but they'll never be able to do it like I do because it has to come from only 2 things: spiritual maturity, and by the Holy Spirit. I can flow back and forth across scripture from the OT through the NT (even apocrypha) because my every thought relates to scripture, and that is what's called spiritual maturity.
I've been a preacher for years. I have faced all manner of persecution, vitriol, and violence to preach the word of GOD to the world. I've spent years providing ministry for the homeless at my own expense. You can go to 100 churches and find only a handful of brothers who've clawed through the mud for GOD and someone else's sake. I've preached to thousands and thousands of people in various places and never once cowered or failed. Have you done that?
So no one can call me a hypocrite, and no one can deny that I'm a graduate of the school of adversity. Therefore, I speak to you as a workman approved: 2 Timothy 2, "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."
Not only that, but you have seen me engage in the fiercest debates on this forum, but have I cursed anyone with profanity, threatened or condemned anyone? Even when I get attacked on all sides, I've maintained decorum.
If you actually read and look at what I say objectively, you'll find that the biggest offense I make against others is brutal honesty. When I call someone out or respond offensively to attacks, I'm never wrong. Those who I direct it at don't dispute it because it's truth. Sure, they get highly offended and hostile, but that's be abuse I convict them with the truth. Notice that I tend to be verbose and always lay out very careful cases and use their own conduct and speech to validate my assessments.
No one else does that because you have to have the true character and quality in all you do. Many people act like it, and convince themselves of their own morality, but very few ARE that inside and out.
We all need to be humble as Christians. I guarantee you that if I come across a faithful man of GOD who has the knowledge of GOD, then I will humble myself and regard him better than myself so that I may increase in the knowledge of GOD and spiritually mature.
What about you? You take offense when I saw your spiritual state and made the effort to raise you up, just as a brother does for another brother. But you're too proud to humble yourself and discern what is authentic. And knowing that you haven't spiritually achieved maturity, you still take the attitude that you already know everything and that I (someone who really does have the knowledge) can't teach you anything.
Learn to discern when GOD speaks to you through others. Understand the black and white picture here man. Here I come as an annointed servant of GOD trying to do what I've been commanded by GOD, but you reject it and take offense. Don't you know what the bible says?
John 1:4, "Believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."
What you should have done was test me to see if I am from GOD. It would have been very easy because I only speak faithfully from the scriptures with sound doctrine. Anyone who is not of GOD can't do that, and this is clearly explained in the bible. Imposters and false teachers can do a very good job of appearing that way, but spiritual discernment exposes them - and spiritual discernment comes with Christian maturity.
So I hope you will take a step back and try to see what good I have done for you. Humble yourself because I am indeed a man of GOD, and the day will eventually come when you must give an account. You will be asked, "I sent My servant to help you. He told you he was my servant. He validated himself with My word, yet you rejected him and found offense."
I tell you this man. If someone comes to you as a man of GOD then listen to them or you are rejecting GOD. If they are not of GOD, they will be exposed and GOD will not let them go unpunished. But if someone from GOD comes to you, receive them just as Abraham did.
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paulyc
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My money is on sucking dick for beer money in a meth fueled haze ?
W
WEF Chairman
Banned
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Dude is loquacious. The elaborate ramblings of a cokehead.
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paulyc
Well-known member
Fixed that for ‘ya ?
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MistaGuitah
Well-known member
Now I will edify you and explain why your list if flawed. Let me make it clear that I'm not saying you are incorrect. I am only showing you how to better understand so that you may be more effective in spreading the gospel. Also, as always, I will follo w the scriptures so that you can know this is not my own ideas but GOD'S word.
Hearing - GOD has to give you an ear to hear. No one can just hear because many people have had their minds blinded, hearts hardened, and understanding darkened (Mark 4:9, 4:23; Matthew 11:15, 13:9, 13:8 & 15; Luke 8:8; Ephesians 4:18; Isaiah 6:10; Jeremiah 14:21; Ezekiel12:2).
Belief - "Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of GOD." (Romans 10)
Repentance - Repentance is granted by GOD (Acts 11:18, 2 Timothy 2:25)
Confession - Comes by the planting of the word of GOD. It is not separate from belief but the action of belief. What confuses most people is because of the order in which Romans 10 is stated at the end of the verse, "The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." By the way, the preaching comes from preachers like myself, so take heed to listen.
Baptism - Baptisim is the product of repentance, Confession, and belief. There is a water tradition of baptism, which is a tradition that actually has some spiritual value, but Baptism itself only comes by total submission to GOD because only those who fully submit to GOD and humble themselves to do the Commandments of GOD. Baptism is a gift whereby one who heed the call of GOD, and chases after the promise of GOD by faith, receives the Holy Spirit who is a "Comforter," a "Guide," and a "Helper."
Acts 2:38, "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
By the way, are you starting to notice the pattern here? You should recognize if because I laid it out for you in the last post you took so much offense to.
Sure, you may argue that this is all just semantics and that you know what it all is, and so on, but the fact is you're just parroting them if you don't have behind it an authentic understanding of how it all works. As I said before, it's just loosely threaded concepts. To define a Christian requires a full understanding of what a Christian is. You thought it was so simple and obvious but I proved to you through the scriptures that it's certainly not. Don't get mad at it but thank me for it because I very kindly provided you valuable wisdom.
What you basically did in this post is give an itemized list of soteriology. But be honest man, you have not studied soteriology. Please understand that I am not criticizing you but only pointing out that without soteriological understanding, you cannot articulate or defend the word of GOD.
You should learn this verse: Jeremiah 23, "he who has my word, let him speak my word faithfully." That's just a single verse, but the bible has a lot to say about speaking GOD'S word correctly, accurately, and with knowledge. All I'm teaching you here is two basic things: to have insight in how you can increase your wisdom and maturity, and how to speak GOD'S word like a Christian who "need not be ashamed." You should recognize this verse I quoted you last time from 2 Timothy 2, "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."
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Strandberg Junkie
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MistaGuitah
Well-known member
Man, you get more desperate, petty, and pathetic with every post.
W
WEF Chairman
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