how're the new mexican promod Charvels?

[baron55]

Charvel is owned by Fender. And really doesn't pay any fees. They are Fender...........

Charvel's Address

Charvel Guitars
17600 N. Perimeter Drive, Suite 100
Scottsdale, AZ 85255


Fenders Address

17600 N. Perimeter Drive, Suite 100
Scottsdale, AZ 85255
Telephone: 480.596.9690
Fax: 480.596.1384

 

[IceMan]

it is because you are jaded, not old. Take the MIM out of the statement and then reasses. $899 Retail for a new guitar with those features is a lot to you? You couldn't even part a guitar and buildmit yourself for that much. As long as the quality is there, why do you care that it is mim? would $1500 for the same guitar made un CA by Mexicans be better?

So what are you paying for when you compare the fender with floyd I posted and the charvel? That's a $400 street price difference ($500 msrp) and it's nowhere near that in materials used such as pickups, the better? floyd, and case. Is the charvel 'name' worth that?

Does Charvel still have to pay Fender licensing fees to use the Strat headstock? If so, that's probably a significant portion of the cost difference right there.

Before some genius chimes in and says that they're the same company, they are owned by the same parent company (FMIC) but they operate independently. Companies frequently have different divisions that try to profit from one another...in fact, cutting out the middle man (another division in my old company) nearly cost me my job as I attempted to manage my bottom line.

Yes - there was a sticker on the back of my Mexi-Charvel (I've taken it off) that specifically stated that the headstock is a trademarked Fender design and licensed to Charvel.

Edit: Just found it in the trash bin in my studio and here it is word for word: "This guitar headstock is the registered trademark of Fender Musical Instruments Corporation and is being used with express permission from FMIC."

 

[83stratman]

In my opinion the MIJ and MIA do not have the same profile at all.

Wait a min.! How could "The neck profile is the same as the US and MIJ models, no difference." possibly be true, when the MIJ and MIA necks feel different from each other?

The profiles are similar if not the same, but the finishes are very different on the MIJ and US. That makes a big difference. There are variances in each individual ones. I didn't caliper all the different profiles on each country's Charvel and compare them, just the way they felt to me. Could be a few thousandths difference, who knows.

 

[luxxtone]

In my opinion the MIJ and MIA do not have the same profile at all.

Wait a min.! How could "The neck profile is the same as the US and MIJ models, no difference." possibly be true, when the MIJ and MIA necks feel different from each other?

The profiles are similar if not the same, but the finishes are very different on the MIJ and US. That makes a big difference. There are variances in each individual ones. I didn't caliper all the different profiles on each country's Charvel and compare them, just the way they felt to me. Could be a few thousandths difference, who knows.

Cool

 

[baron55]

Fender bought Charvel back in 2002, they own them............... Many people still don't know this.

The sticker about the authorization of the headstock is more of a warning to others that permission has to be given to use it's likeness. Also keep in mind that although Charvel may have their own "management" team, they still answer directly to Fender Corporate, in-fact, they are in the same building and offices as Fender. And the MIM are made at the same factor, by the same workers as Fender guitars are made. Not exactly separate companies. On paper yes, but the money goes to the same place.

Fender bought Charvel/Jackson to try and get into he super Strat business. Most hard rock, metal, players always gravitated to the super strat over the standard strat. Yes guys do drop Floyds and humbuckers into Fenders, but hey are not the same. So Fender wanted to make money of this segment. Right now the super strat still really isn't popular anymore in mainstream music. So the margins are very thin.

The Price on the Charvels are higher because of Duncan pickups, Floyd tremolos and the fact Charvel/Jackson represents a higher end guitar. Fender parts are much cheaper and many are made buy them, where duncan pickups and a Floyd have a higher markup since other companies profit from this.


I have no problem with the 850-899 price tag, just sucks you have to pull the neck.

 

['63-Strat]

^ Beat me to it, but yes. They are made in the same building whether it's the plant in Mexico or CA, Fender/Charvel/Jackson, all the same company at this point even if they no doubt have some of the same people working for them that were working for Charvel/Jackson when they were separate.

 

[Bamboo]

I think I recall seeing somewhere (maybe a NAMM video?) that although Charvel is located in the same factory, they are basically in their own space with workers producing nothing but Charvel guitars.

Earlier in the thread I asked about the MIM Charvel bodies being two or three pieced. MIM Fender bodies are basically cutoffs glued together, veneered and CNC'd. Maybe that's part of the price difference?

 

[baron55]

I think I recall seeing somewhere (maybe a NAMM video?) that although Charvel is located in the same factory, they are basically in their own space with workers producing nothing but Charvel guitars.

Earlier in the thread I asked about the MIM Charvel bodies being two or three pieced. MIM Fender bodies are basically cutoffs glued together, veneered and CNC'd. Maybe that's part of the price difference?

uhhhhhhhh that picture is sad. 4 and 5 piece bodies.............. Can't tell what guitars those are, Strats? i remember when guitars with bodies like that were 200.00

 

[romanianreaper]

I think Fender has done a great job so far with the Charvel and EVH lines. I absolutely love my DeMartini Charvel and my EVH Wolfgang Special (Japan) plays great.

I love the feel of Charvel necks. They all just feel comfortable right out of the box. My DeMartini feels great and the Charvel I got from Chubtone felt just as good and was thousands cheaper. I like Fender necks as well but depends on the model of course. I think I like hot-rodded strats and that is basically what a Charvel is.

 

[Chubtone]

Wait a min.! How could "The neck profile is the same as the US and MIJ models, no difference." possibly be true, when the MIJ and MIA necks feel different from each other?

The profiles are similar if not the same, but the finishes are very different on the MIJ and US. That makes a big difference. There are variances in each individual ones. I didn't caliper all the different profiles on each country's Charvel and compare them, just the way they felt to me. Could be a few thousandths difference, who knows.

I agree that the profiles are very similar. I have put calipers on both the MIA, MIJ and the USA Custom Shop standard shape and they are within 1000th's of an inch of each other. I was told by the Charvel product manager that the Japanese factory used the exact same CNC program that Charvel USA had programmed for the necks. To my hands, they felt almost identical. I didn't like the finish being left on the necks to dry on the MIJ ones, but 10 minutes with some #0000 steel wool fixed that.

The MIM ones at NAMM felt like the exact same profile.

 

[Chubtone]

For what it's worth, I toured the Fender factory for the first time in 2010 and they made all the necks for the MIM guitars at the US factory and shipped them down. My sales rep whispered to me they still weren't satisfied with the quality of the necks that they could build in Mexico after what, 15 years???? Think about that for a second. The horrible, corporate, greed mongers at FMIC instead of putting out an inferior product and making more profit, were sending USA made necks down to be installed on MIM guitars. They weren't American Standard necks, no, but they were made in USA necks to MIM specs for the guitars. Why didn't they tell anyone this? They want to sell MIA guitars and that little tidbit adds a little checkmark to the Pro's column on buying a MIM strat instead.

Where are the necks made now? I don't know. Where are the EVH and Charvel MIM necks made now? I don't know. But what I saw with my own eyes is that if FMIC doesn't believe that Mexico factory can pull off a neck that is up to their standards, they will build it here and send it south for assembly.

 

[Stramm8]

I think I recall seeing somewhere (maybe a NAMM video?) that although Charvel is located in the same factory, they are basically in their own space with workers producing nothing but Charvel guitars.

Earlier in the thread I asked about the MIM Charvel bodies being two or three pieced. MIM Fender bodies are basically cutoffs glued together, veneered and CNC'd. Maybe that's part of the price difference?

Yikes!! This affirms my reasoning for building my own super strats. I can get a nice 2 piece body and neck from musikraft, buy a german made floyd and the rest of the parts for a little over $800.

And if the mim charvels are made of scrap like the bodies in these pics, I'd say the margins are probably a little better than slim since the material cost is basically $0.00...

On the other hand, I played an indonesian made squire clasic vibe 70's strat the other day that was one of the most resonant guitars I've picked up an a long time so who knows if it even matters

 

[Chubtone]

I believe those are MIM strat, tele, P-bass and j-bass bodies, and not the MIM Charvel woods. Those are supposed to be 3 piece just like the USA and Japan ones.

 

[charveldan]

Fender ... lol.

 

[scriptphase]

I believe those are MIM strat, tele, P-bass and j-bass bodies, and not the MIM Charvel woods. Those are supposed to be 3 piece just like the USA and Japan ones.

Those pics are from a 2006 tour of the Fender plant in Mexico. The stack with the forearm contours are all Fender Standard Strats.

 

[baron55]

For what it's worth, I toured the Fender factory for the first time in 2010 and they made all the necks for the MIM guitars at the US factory and shipped them down. My sales rep whispered to me they still weren't satisfied with the quality of the necks that they could build in Mexico after what, 15 years???? Think about that for a second. The horrible, corporate, greed mongers at FMIC instead of putting out an inferior product and making more profit, were sending USA made necks down to be installed on MIM guitars. They weren't American Standard necks, no, but they were made in USA necks to MIM specs for the guitars. Why didn't they tell anyone this? They want to sell MIA guitars and that little tidbit adds a little checkmark to the Pro's column on buying a MIM strat instead.

Where are the necks made now? I don't know. Where are the EVH and Charvel MIM necks made now? I don't know. But what I saw with my own eyes is that if FMIC doesn't believe that Mexico factory can pull off a neck that is up to their standards, they will build it here and send it south for assembly.

Being around various sales reps and personnel over the years I call this 100% BS. Not that you are BS but the sales rep. Sounds like the sales rep was trying to make it seem like the MIM were better quality because of US necks. I have seen and played many MIM Fenders and the necks are no where as nice as the US made necks. Typical sales BS.

 

[Darden]

They'll keep going down the cost/quality ladder until people stop buying them. Simple as that.

 

[Bob Savage]

the material cost is basically $0.00...

Sweet fancy Moses... really?

It pains me to say it, but Americans deserve the quality they get with newly offshored/nearshored products (as opposed to once they get the hang of it). We want something for almost nothing and put zero consideration into the fact that a business needs to turn a profit to survive.

I'm not getting into an online battle over this, but I can tell you from experience that manufacturing costs a lot more than people think. Most Americans cannot stomach the true cost of products manufactured onshore.

I fart in your general direction. Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries.

 

[Chubtone]

Being around various sales reps and personnel over the years I call this 100% BS. Not that you are BS but the sales rep. Sounds like the sales rep was trying to make it seem like the MIM were better quality because of US necks. I have seen and played many MIM Fenders and the necks are no where as nice as the US made necks. Typical sales BS.

Roughly cut and shaped here, needing lots of finish sanding and all the fretwork done there. Made to an entirely different spec. Vintage truss rods, smaller frets etc. And like I said, the sales rep who only was involved with Charvel/Jackson custom shop and not Fender asked me not to tell anyone this because it took away some of the perceived value of the made in USA instruments. I saw where all the USA necks were made, then I saw this separate area with the rough necks being stacked into boxes for shipping.

I know sales reps too. Believe me buddy, I've been dealing with them for 20 years at my store. I have a really good BS meter. This was not a tour with 20 other people, this was one on one tour of the custom shops and as he took me through the different areas to get to the custom shops he would point out what was happening in each.

He's no longer the rep (probably for lying during factory tours ) so I'm telling what I saw.

True or not, I don't care, I never bought a MIM strat because of it.

 

[Chubtone]

It pains me to say it, but Americans deserve the quality they get with newly offshored/nearshored products (as opposed to once they get the hang of it). We want something for almost nothing and put zero consideration into the fact that a business needs to turn a profit to survive.

I can't tell you how often someone walks into my store with the comment, "what is the cheapest _________ you have?" "Well", I say, "I have acoustic guitars for $69", while mentally rolling my eyes because my first, beginner guitar cost $125 in 1977.

"What brand is it?" they'll ask.