I forgot how bright JMP Marshalls were

[Shiny_Surface]

I was sort of a late bloomer before I went into my Marshall phase a few years back, and from forum lore I expected a certain amount of brightness when I started buying and playing through some of them.

The brightest one of the bunch, a 2203x reissue still wasn't overly bright or painful/icepicky at least to me.

My other heads, a European market '78 2203 JMP and U.S. Market '79 2203 JMP one with EL34's and one with 6550's had a great warm crunch but with bite. Both heads had filter caps replaced and the bright cap was not clipped on either so maybe it was just those particular heads dunno.

My one remaining '83 2204 with EL34's is about the same as the JMP's were, maybe a tad brighter. This amp also has had the filter caps replaced and the bright cap intact.

 

[AndyK]

My Superlead has a fat thick tone. I hear you on mods but a couple of little changes are not a big deal. Remember Marshall did not have it exactly right. I definitely prefer a 56k slope 250 pf treble like the super bass. Big thick mids, clear tone and stays tight with no flub. The 33k 500pf is muddier. Definitely lower the bright cap value. If boosting with an OD 250pf is about max and still be able to control feedback. My Superlead has that Jose type of thick mids.

This is what makes older style Marshall circuits cool! The ability to change a few caps/resistors - and get a much improved tone!

 

[tallcoolone]

Those amps are not made to be played at low volume or alone without a band.

 

[Schaf]

I will concede they sound better cranked but with the right boost or OD they can sound great at lower volumes. TV levels no. But a decent practice level, there's no reason you can't get good tone out of it if dialed in right with a boost or OD. It's all in the EQ. But the louder you get it, the highs do get warmer sounding. But that's the nature of the amp.

As for overly bright? Maybe speakers? I personally use a 4X12 with well worn 75s. I know there's a lot of hate for them around here but I find that they work best for me and I've tried about everything including 12 65's. I much prefer the 75s because the 65s seem to smooth it out too much for me. they do smooth the highs a lot.

But, I like the bright, cutting tone of a Marshall, but I don't find my 2204 overly bright at all with everything around noon except the presence. I keep it at about 2. I do find that if you get the mids much past 5 it will get pretty nasty sounding. I've played mine for practice and lots of different kinds of gigs. Some of which you have to keep the volume down. Never had a problem getting good tone as long as you adjust the EQ to compensate. I think that's probably true for most amps though.

 

[moronmountain]

I will concede they sound better cranked but with the right boost or OD they can sound great at lower volumes. TV levels no. But a decent practice level, there's no reason you can't get good tone out of it if dialed in right with a boost or OD. It's all in the EQ. But the louder you get it, the highs do get warmer sounding. But that's the nature of the amp.

As for overly bright? Maybe speakers? I personally use a 4X12 with well worn 75s. I know there's a lot of hate for them around here but I find that they work best for me and I've tried about everything including 12 65's. I much prefer the 75s because the 65s seem to smooth it out too much for me. they do smooth the highs a lot.

But, I like the bright, cutting tone of a Marshall, but I don't find my 2204 overly bright at all with everything around noon except the presence. I keep it at about 2. I do find that if you get the mids much past 5 it will get pretty nasty sounding. I've played mine for practice and lots of different kinds of gigs. Some of which you have to keep the volume down. Never had a problem getting good tone as long as you adjust the EQ to compensate. I think that's probably true for most amps though.

Mostly 40+ year old greenbacks. I've played his amps at band levels with a Tubescreamer, and they are great that way. It's just been awhile since I've heard them at a lowish volume, and no boost in front of them. They were just pretty darn bright in that scenario.

 

[ibenhad]

The reality is they are on 1000s of the greatest rock records ever made. Maybe little added brightness to compensate for the roll off with 2" tape. I'd still take a good JMP over 90% all the amps touted on this site. One word 'Pyromania'. Lot's 'O' JMP and early 800 action.

Was it really Marshalls or was it a rockman? I would say Marshalls for sure on On Through the Night and High and Dry but not sure about Pyromania. Not saying, really more just asking. I much prefer the tones on the earlier 2 than the later. But then again I much preferred Pete Willis to Phil. Just my ears. God I hated those rockmen deals. Owned them but man did they sound like cardboard.


Found this - might be true who knows.... http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php?p=187212

Mike Shipley, who was Mutt's right hand man for many years and engineered the big Lep albums, was a guest moderator over on GearSlutz for a while - here's a direct quote from his post when asked about Def Leppard guitar sounds . . . not specifically Pyromania, but this is interesting regardless especially if you listen hard to "Pour Some Sugar On Me" . . . the sound is unmistakable once you know what it is.

"The gtr sound you are talking about in "Hysteria"is a "Rockman" by Tom Scholz. Every guitar sound on that record is Rockman. The clean sounds and the distorted ones!!!!. We had tried to get a gtr sound with DL for so friggin' long.We had 100's of amps lined up in the studio and had tried almost all of 'em and we were sick of the "crunchiness" of the sound . Mutt didn't think it was commercial enough...especially when we started layering gtr sounds.......which was part of the idea for this record.
We tried the "Rockman"..which only really had one sound..as it was a very cheap box so we got in contact with Tom Scholz and asked him to modify the sound for us. So he sent us a version of the box that ZZTOP had been using on all their records and it was spot on for us also. Yes ZZTOP didn't use amps either !!!.We could layer sounds up and the sound got more interesting instead of more crunchy."

You can read the whole post here. ShipShape = Mike Shipley.

http://gearslutz.com/board/high-end/162 ... teria.html

Scroll down a bit in that thread and in another post he talks about Ed using a Palmer speaker simulator.

 

[James Lugo]

I know the first few were mostly if not all Marshall's. I said pyromania cuz I just started to listen to the record again after decades. I think either way they were going after a similar acdc like thing. But the guitars are wetter on pyro so there is a lot more processing going on. I really love those early def tones. Sad to see Mike go, he was a friend of mine. Good dude.

 

[tallcoolone]

HUGE difference between H&D/Pyromania and Hysteria...as in great guitar tone vs. ass...

 

[James Lugo]

Yeah Hysteria didn't really do it for me.

 

[Rawk]

Just read this interview of steve and phil right before they were gonna tour the hysteria album:


http://www.steveclarkguitar.com/articles-and-interviews/def-scam


Interesting read they mentioned switching over to randall amps and ditching marshalls. But they also mention using rockman amps for recording…. but never heard of them using randall. Were they pulling an eddie vh and bs'ing about their gear?

 

[AndyK]

Listen to High n Dry, then Pyromania. The first is pure chimey stock sounding loud Marshalls. The next is processed to hell!

Love that High n Dry tone!

 

[moronmountain]

Not quite sure how this became a DL thread? The intraweb is a fascinating monster isn't it?

 

[ibenhad]

Not quite sure how this became a DL thread? The Jim Marshall amp is a fascinating monster isn't it?

Fixed!

 

[petejt]

Not quite sure how this became a DL thread? The intraweb is a fascinating monster isn't it?

haha


I guess they are just discussing the bright sound of JMP Marshalls, and how Mutt Lange went against that sound when producing Def Leppard's Hysteria, so went for a modified version of the commercial 'arena rock' processed sound of the Rockman.

 

[tallcoolone]

They are bright yes but once they are put in a band context, they cut like nothing else. The clip below is of a 50w JMP that is incredibly bright and to be honest, not a lot of fun to play alone, even when I can crank it quite a bit. But at a gig it just seems to sit in the mix well.

 

[Schaf]

I will concede they sound better cranked but with the right boost or OD they can sound great at lower volumes. TV levels no. But a decent practice level, there's no reason you can't get good tone out of it if dialed in right with a boost or OD. It's all in the EQ. But the louder you get it, the highs do get warmer sounding. But that's the nature of the amp.

As for overly bright? Maybe speakers? I personally use a 4X12 with well worn 75s. I know there's a lot of hate for them around here but I find that they work best for me and I've tried about everything including 12 65's. I much prefer the 75s because the 65s seem to smooth it out too much for me. they do smooth the highs a lot.

But, I like the bright, cutting tone of a Marshall, but I don't find my 2204 overly bright at all with everything around noon except the presence. I keep it at about 2. I do find that if you get the mids much past 5 it will get pretty nasty sounding. I've played mine for practice and lots of different kinds of gigs. Some of which you have to keep the volume down. Never had a problem getting good tone as long as you adjust the EQ to compensate. I think that's probably true for most amps though.

Mostly 40+ year old greenbacks. I've played his amps at band levels with a Tubescreamer, and they are great that way. It's just been awhile since I've heard them at a lowish volume, and no boost in front of them. They were just pretty darn bright in that scenario.

The others here have mentioned tubes. I will say a 6550 loaded JCM/JMP will have a slightly more harsh or brittle high end than the el34. I personally like the EL34's beause the feel a hair more spongier. More of a feel thing than an audible thing. Really other than a slight difference in the top end and maybe a little rounder on the bottom end not much difference in the tubes. They can be dialed in to sound pretty much identical. The EL34 do start to break up a little sooner but that's still really load.

 

[southpark tube lab]

the jcm-800 with the hendix mod a real easy kit from watt audo is old school dirt it is all in the gain nothing distorts like a marshall

 

[Bluplirst]

This guy is bumping everything from 2 years ago. Going for a necrobump record!

 

[cardinal]

Can't wait to see what he has for sale!

 

[tripstan]

This guy is bumping everything from 2 years ago. Going for a necrobump record!

This is how it starts. I mean the zombie apocalypse. Some guy wants to sell this busted old gear and makes too many necro bumps. Next thing you know we're all biting each other.