I have a decision to make. C -> C+ or C++?

[GJgo]

Ok guys I just scored a clean Mark IIC HRG from a mom & pop shop for a good price. I'm going to play it for oh a day, then send it off to Mike B. for the royal treatment! It's a combo with I think an EVM12L in it, might have to pop that bad boy in a Thiele cab.

When I had Mike go through my Mark III at the time I opted not to get the III+ treatment. In hindsight hearing some demos I kind of wish I would have.

New choice time! I honestly think I'm leaning towards a traditional C+. The sound demos of C++ out there are few & far between, but the ones I've heard didn't make me want to lose the clean channel to get there. I have boosts. Maybe I'm just not hearing the right demos? I am a metal guy so I know that may be sacrilege, so I figure I should get some opinions before I plunk down the cash.

Side thought, nowhere could I find any sound demos of a 100 watt vs. a Simulclass. I'd like to check that out.

 

[Marshall Freak]

C+ has tons of gain, I love the way they sound, if you need more gain, you can boost it... I'd just stick with that.

 

[Racerxrated]

It's all about the clean..I really like the clean channel. The best I've heard in a high gainer. That said, you never know when Mike B will call it quits, then no more option for the ++. Couple years ago I was in your shoes exactly and I stuck with the +. I boost mine and I'm happy with it. Great and unique amp for sure. I will admit that occasionally I think about sending it in though...

 

[braintheory]

I've never had a true IIC++, but I have a III++ coliseum modded by Mike B as well as a factory IIC+ HRG and I have no problems at all getting a pristine clean from my III++, so I would think it wouldn't be an issue with a IIC++ either but I guess ask Mike first. I also agree that these amps have hands down the best cleans I've heard in any high gainer (when dialed in right) I've tried (and that includes Diezels, Wizards, Landry, Driftwood, etc) and I'd probably even go as far as saying some of the best cleans period!

Also, I prefer the sound of 100 watt over the simul-class versions. The simul-class sounds cool on paper since it sounds interesting to mix EL34's and 6L6's, but they sound more compressed and smooth, whereas I found the non-simulclass to be more aggressive and bold, so I guess it depends what you want, but I definitely prefer non-simul class. I have 2 mark iii coliseums (one is simul-class and the other is not) and use to have a simul-class mark iic+ but sold it and kept the one I have now

 

[GJgo]

Mike told me that if I go ++ the clean channel is no longer clean, I'd lose it. He also told me that it's possible to mod it like he did the original ones where I can switch back & forth from + to ++ but that mod is a lot more money. From what I'm reading it's basically just a built in boost. Yeah, I'm also leaning towards just the +.

Wow a III+ Coli, that's a beast!!! I'd love to hear it.

I was also talking to a guy with a factory DRG IIC+ for a good price but it would've involved me driving 10 hours round trip to pick it up. I struggled with the choice & ended up getting this HRG because it'll be the same money in the end and no road trip involved. I read mixed opinions on which guys like better, hope I made the right choice!

 

[Racerxrated]

And to further your confusion I found an original HRG for 1300 as my SRG was at Mesa for the + mod. Got the newly upgraded SRG back, and thought it was a bit hairier and more aggressive than the HRG. So I sold the original. Everyone, or at least many have the opinion that 'original' C+ sound better than upgraded Cs..that wasn't my experience at all. Go figure.

 

[johnpace2]

And to further your confusion I found an original HRG for 1300 as my SRG was at Mesa for the + mod. Got the newly upgraded SRG back, and thought it was a bit hairier and more aggressive than the HRG. So I sold the original. Everyone, or at least many have the opinion that 'original' C+ sound better than upgraded Cs..that wasn't my experience at all. Go figure.

I think those folks who say originals sound better are trying to inflate value. Mike B will tell you that they sound the same.

 

[NewWorldMan]

It all boils down to what you want. I have both - an '85 IIC+ (DRG) and an '84 IIC++ (DRG). If I only had one, I'd go with the IIC+. Why? They're very similar, but you lose a lot of versatility and the clean channel.

As for an upgrade versus a factory original, they're technically the same. I say this as someone that has factory originals. You shouldn't value one over the other. The difference comes in the transformers and feel of the amps. Racerxrated has an SRG (60W) and noted it seemed more hairy and aggressive, and it should, due to it's power section. Most of the (DRG/HRG) upgrades have a 100 PT or export transformer. Those will likely sound a little more saturated, especially at lower volumes.

I chose to keep the factory originals because I prefer the 105 PT, which for me is the sweet spot of thump and headroom. I've had them all many times, and I recently had 6 of them at once to A/B all the various renditions I could find. I wouldn't worry about whether it was an upgrade so much as is it the right power section/transformer set to suit your styles and wants.

 

[glip22]

For Mike to make it switchable will run you around $500. He does a pull pot on the mid control. It's not a simple mod as he has to add in relays for the switching.
I opted for ++ and no switch. I can still get very nice cleans. I turn my guitar volume down a little bit which is needed anyway to compensate for any volume differences.
I don't think the ++ is just a boost. I think it changes the voicing. I know I love mine. I cannot say for sure exactly what he does.

 

[keennay]

As a software programmer, I was expecting something totally different from this thread title.

 

[Rock Bodom]

As a software programmer, I was expecting something totally different from this thread title.

Glad you said it, I was thinking the same thing...was ready to break into the "object-oriented programming 101" comments.

 

[braintheory]

Mike told me that if I go ++ the clean channel is no longer clean, I'd lose it. He also told me that it's possible to mod it like he did the original ones where I can switch back & forth from + to ++ but that mod is a lot more money

I believe that's what I have, where I can switch between the 2, but it wasn't that expensive maybe since the mark iii's already have a push-pull mid knob but not sure

 

[glip22]

Mike told me that if I go ++ the clean channel is no longer clean, I'd lose it. He also told me that it's possible to mod it like he did the original ones where I can switch back & forth from + to ++ but that mod is a lot more money

I believe that's what I have, where I can switch between the 2, but it wasn't that expensive maybe since the mark iii's already have a push-pull mid knob but not sure

Correct. I had a Mark III++ as well and it was switchable with pull R2 unless you used the footswitch for the Rhythm, then it seemed to be always on. also on the MArk III++ it was only for the lead channel. He could do the Rhythm but he would have to trace under the boards so the boards had to come up at higher expense. He called it a shift.

 

[LanierP]

I have the 60 watt combo C+ That has no EQ, and no Reverb. I slam the loop with a Mesa 5 band and run the amp into a 4x12 cab(wish I could find a headshell for it if anyone knows how to get one). Really sounds great. It was +'d by mike in 2007, as it was built just prior to the +'s coming online (serial #119XX). Was considering selling it at one time and got tons of guys beating me up on the $$$$ because it wasn't a factory C+; I pulled the listing a bit frustrated. I do believe that the fact that the amp doesn't have Reverb, or graphic EQ has a bit of an effect to its overall tone (when comparing to the same amp with these features not engaged. They all to me sound very very good. I even landed a factory Mark 2c+ Coliseum last year that has no EQ, but does have Reverb and the 'Limiter' knob on the back. It's the best of all I've heard, but will shred cabs if not careful!

 

[NewWorldMan]

...I wish I could find a headshell for it if anyone knows how to get one...

You can call up Mesa and order one. Prices vary depending on the options you want. If you want a non-factory version, reach out to George (gts) on this forum or The Boogie Board.

 

[tripstan]

I have a III C+ mod. Plenty of gain. I'd agree with keeping the clean channel extra sparkly. The clean on the Marks and on some of Diezel's amps are the best for multi ch. high gain amps IMO.

 

[LanierP]

...I wish I could find a headshell for it if anyone knows how to get one...

You can call up Mesa and order one. Prices vary depending on the options you want. If you want a non-factory version, reach out to George (gts) on this forum or The Boogie Board.

Thanks for the info brother. I just called Mesa and left a voicemail detailing what I was looking for. Hopefully I'll get a call back. Called them about a year ago on something else, left voicemail twice, nothing....maybe caught them on a bad day.

 

[Racerxrated]

...I wish I could find a headshell for it if anyone knows how to get one...

You can call up Mesa and order one. Prices vary depending on the options you want. If you want a non-factory version, reach out to George (gts) on this forum or The Boogie Board.

Thanks for the info brother. I just called Mesa and left a voicemail detailing what I was looking for. Hopefully I'll get a call back. Called them about a year ago on something else, left voicemail twice, nothing....maybe caught them on a bad day.

They're usually great about calling back. If they don't try again..really great dudes there. That headshell will run between 4-500 depending. I asked them 2 yrs ago. Some guys on the Boogie Board make them, really nice work.

 

[LanierP]

...I wish I could find a headshell for it if anyone knows how to get one...

You can call up Mesa and order one. Prices vary depending on the options you want. If you want a non-factory version, reach out to George (gts) on this forum or The Boogie Board.

Thanks for the info brother. I just called Mesa and left a voicemail detailing what I was looking for. Hopefully I'll get a call back. Called them about a year ago on something else, left voicemail twice, nothing....maybe caught them on a bad day.

They're usually great about calling back. If they don't try again..really great dudes there. That headshell will run between 4-500 depending. I asked them 2 yrs ago. Some guys on the Boogie Board make them, really nice work.

Thanks man. I'm assuming prices from these guys will be a bit cheaper. Gonna check both options for sure.

 

[Markedman]

I have owned both and the ++ is the way to go! You still have plenty of clean if you want, just turn the volume one down. I still own a Mark IIC++ simul-class with the GEQ and it slays but is still way useable for great cleans if wanted.