I have a decision to make. C -> C+ or C++?

[glip22]

Look at where Reza has his gain in this IIC++ clip. That's rolled way the hell back, even with treble & V1 dimed. Kind of gets to NWM's point about unusable gain at the top of the register. Damn, I wish I could play one before committing!

https://youtu.be/vyPR6MeIP4c

He has his input volume on 10 as well as his treble shift pulled. You cannot go buy this. On my ++ I adjust the input to around 7 (tweak for each guitar to control squeal) treble shift about the same and the gain anywhere from 6.5 to 7.5 for high gain tones.

 

[GJgo]

Ok guys, the IIC+ HRG is done & I'll have it back home on Monday. I will report.

NEXT!!!! So I made the trip over & picked up that factory IIC+ DRG w/ the 105 PT last weekend!! I got a great price on it because there were some issues but fundamentally everything was working-ish. The reverb wasn't working, turns out he had the leads plugged in backwards. The Simul-Class switch wasn't producing any change to volume, turns out he had the EL34 in the middle slots & the 6L6 in the outer slots. (switch started working when I swapped the tubes back) I rolled the dice a little here hoping there isn't any transformer damage, but the amp was working fine otherwise. Also one of the tube sockets was dead, turns out there was one of those big resistors to it broken in half. The guts all look original except for the PI tube socket having been replaced. Owner says the amp has been in the closet for the last 20+ years. I crossed my fingers that all these problems are solvable by Mike B., beat him up on price a little & made the deal. I've already got a RMA from Rich & will be shipping it back to Petaluma next week for a full service.

So, now that the HRG is a IIC+, my next decision is do I keep the DRG a IIC+ or make it a ++? I really, really love all the tones this thing makes as-is. Getting a ++ would be cool because it's different & will have good investment value, just not sure I want to significantly change the character?? Talk about first world problems!

 

[Racerxrated]

Ok guys, the IIC+ HRG is done & I'll have it back home on Monday. I will report.

NEXT!!!! So I made the trip over & picked up that factory IIC+ DRG w/ the 105 PT last weekend!! I got a great price on it because there were some issues but fundamentally everything was working-ish. The reverb wasn't working, turns out he had the leads plugged in backwards. The Simul-Class switch wasn't producing any change to volume, turns out he had the EL34 in the middle slots & the 6L6 in the outer slots. (switch started working when I swapped the tubes back) I rolled the dice a little here hoping there isn't any transformer damage, but the amp was working fine otherwise. Also one of the tube sockets was dead, turns out there was one of those big resistors to it broken in half. The guts all look original except for the PI tube socket having been replaced. Owner says the amp has been in the closet for the last 20+ years. I crossed my fingers that all these problems are solvable by Mike B., beat him up on price a little & made the deal. I've already got a RMA from Rich & will be shipping it back to Petaluma next week for a full service.

So, now that the HRG is a IIC+, my next decision is do I keep the DRG a IIC+ or make it a ++? I really, really love all the tones this thing makes as-is. Getting a ++ would be cool because it's different & will have good investment value, just not sure I want to significantly change the character?? Talk about first world problems!

Well, you've got to send the DRG in anyway so i'd make that a ++. You could compare both when you get the HRG back and see which you like best and keep it a +, but then you might end up sending both back to Mike lol..one for a service and the other right back for an additional + ...
Decisions decisions....

 

[psychodave]

It sold depwas New on what you want. For me, I prefer the ++. I wouldn't own a + ever again.

 

[GJgo]

Alright guys I'm making the DRG decision today & shipping it off tomorrow. Thanks Markedman for your sound clips. Can anyone else who has a ++ also post some sound clips today??

I got the HRG + back but haven't plugged it in yet. Mike did a great job, even replaced a number of pots that were out of spec. Also did the reverb wire ground mod. Can't wait to play it!

 

[GJgo]

Alright, screw it, I'm going ++. I talked with Mike B. about it today, here's what he had to say- I don't think he'll mind a quote on the subject.

"The ++ has some but not a lot more gain in the lead ch, 8 or 10 db?? The amp over all has more gain from about 200 hz on up also... so less bottom that you use the 5 band EQ to add back in. The clean sound is gone, it actually has a lot more gain (and lots more upper mid too). So if you turn down the gain to 2/3 to get real clean, it sounds kinda honky. Over all the amp is quite screaming on the top end ....bright for days. It's all about the screaming crunch and metal lead tones. It really ends up a lot less versatile but .......... it does what it does, real good. If you are a "mostly metal guy" what the heck you waitin' for!!"

I'm really looking forward to recording a + vs. a ++ tone comparo. I'll need to practice before I do that one!

 

[peterc52]

I was wondering. What would happen if a IIC+ blew a tranny?

 

[glip22]

I was wondering. What would happen if a IIC+ blew a tranny?

I'm not sure if he would be considered a homosexual or not JK

There are definitely no more of the original transformers around. Mercury has a replacement.

 

[Racerxrated]

I was wondering. What would happen if a IIC+ blew a tranny?

I'm not sure if he would be considered a homosexual or not JK

There are definitely no more of the original transformers around. Mercury has a replacement.

 

[GJgo]

I would think one option is to find a MkIII black stripe w/ a 105 & part it out. Or, perhaps use a JP2C transformer since it's supposed to be an exact replica. That one measures out the same size as a X101, I need to test mine but I doubt it runs the hot plate voltage of the 105.

 

[psychodave]

I would think one option is to find a MkIII black stripe w/ a 105 & part it out. Or, perhaps use a JP2C transformer since it's supposed to be an exact replica. That one measures out the same size as a X101, I need to test mine but I doubt it runs the hot plate voltage of the 105.

Parting out a Mark III is my thought as well.

I believe a Mark IV transformer will work as well and I think Hetfields famous "crunchberries" 2C++ has one since the original transformer blew up.

 

[GJgo]

Alright, the C+ HRG is done! I sold the combo cab & bought a new custom head shell from a guy named Scott out East. The fit & finish is perfect, I can definitely recommend his work if anyone is looking- PM me for details. Everything looks & sounds great!

Now, I only played the amp as a IIC for a day before I shipped it out for the work. Not being able to play them back to back, I'm not entirely sure I could tell you what the difference is. They both sound fantastic and organic & I would take either over the other Mark amps I've played. If anything there's always a little tonal difference when an old amp get a fresh cap job so for me it's hard to say.. Since the deed is done I'm going to tell myself the C+ sounds better.

I know the JP-2C is modeled after the HRG C+. I can say that they are brothers, they share something in tone & feel, but the C+ is a lot more vintage & organic where the JP is more modern & compressed. Both are awesome in their own way but I would not say they are twins.

 

[Markedman]

I was wondering. What would happen if a IIC+ blew a tranny?

Very good question! No one ever wants to know that answer.

 

[GJgo]

Last night I spent an hour A/Bing the C+ HRG vs. my III DRG. I wanted to give it some time for the honeymoon to wear off & really see what the difference is. I used the same guitar, same cab, same settings, same tubes, so the only difference was the amp. It was a good thing to do. They both have that raw vintage Boogie flavor, I'd say the biggest difference is that the C+ sounds more organic where the III sounds more aggressive.

 

[rsm]

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IMO

 

[mojotone]

Both are awesome in their own way but I would not say they are twins.

They are not twins, in my opinion, because of the preset Vol 1 control and the lack of the push-pull options on the knobs. the JP-2C has many more user friendly features, but forgives the before mentioned things. The simul-class deal is a whole different issue. I love me some 6CA7's in the 15 watt mode.

 

[petejt]

I wouldn't mind getting a single channel MarkIIC++ , just the Lead preamp channel + 5 band EQ + Simul-Class power amp.

Surely they can make it as a lunchbox amp or a rack unit?

 

[GJgo]

I've spent some time really trying to dial in the JP to sound like the HRG IIC+. I have to say, I can get them to sound really damn close. The biggest thing is I had to turn the gain on the JP WAY down to get there. That thing has to be based off a ++.

That said, the C+ definitely has a more 3D / organic / harmonic feel when you play it.

I've A/Bd the STR 615s against the new Mesa 440s. There's definitely a difference & the 415s do sound better, but I can't say that I think they're ~$400 better. The ++ has a pair of 6CA7s in it so I'll get to compare those as well.

I should have the C++ back this weekend! EXCITED!!!

 

[eternal_idol]

440s are a significant improvement over the 430s to my ears atleast. I've not heard 415s in over a decade myself so i shouldn't comment on those as i can't bloody remember them anymore.

@GJgo, is your DRG Mk.III a III+ or a "stock" III? (you've mentioned alot now i'm confused) if so i'm very interested.

I've been in the market for Mk.IIIs for a month or two now. all the ones i'm looking at will require a cap job i'm almost 100% on that one. so i'm very interested how a fresh modded C++ will sound compared. Did you mention which stripe your MK.III is/was?

Does stripe have bearing AFTER? a + mod?

 

[johnpace2]

440s are a significant improvement over the 430s to my ears atleast. I've not heard 415s in over a decade myself so i shouldn't comment on those as i can't bloody remember them anymore.

@GJgo, is your DRG Mk.III a III+ or a "stock" III? (you've mentioned alot now i'm confused) if so i'm very interested.

I've been in the market for Mk.IIIs for a month or two now. all the ones i'm looking at will require a cap job i'm almost 100% on that one. so i'm very interested how a fresh modded C++ will sound compared. Did you mention which stripe your MK.III is/was?

Does stripe have bearing AFTER? a + mod?

My ears aren't that sensitive, but I could totally tell a difference when I upgraded to 415s in my C+. It just sounded more 3D, more organic, etc.