I tested if speaker break in is fact or fiction

[7704A]

But how much of it is only in our head ?

I think this is a key point. My understanding is that our auditory memory is very short, and easily corrupted by our own perception. So by the time you swap speakers/pickups/tubes/crystal lettuces/whatever, unless it took less than around six seconds, your memory of the previous sound is corrupted/inaccurate. I'll have to find where I read that tidbit though, I seem to recall it being somewhere more academic than a guitar forum.

Likewise, I've been amazed at how much doing a blind test changes things. I don't mean Fricker's tests, I mean loading two tracks up in my DAW then running a blind test plug-in on them so I don't know which track is which, but can toggle between them, rate them, and then see the results after. It's completely disorienting, and I didn't realize how much I was anchoring to what I believed the track to be a recording of until I flipped the test switch and suddenly felt completely lost. Ended up with different conclusions about the gear I liked than I started the test with. E.g., I thought I preferred SRO's over EVM12S speakers 'cause of the mids and highs, and that is what I usually heard, but after doing the blind test I noticed that the SRO has the same slightly raspy top that the 12L does, and that the 12S doesn't. Another time I ranked a Swamp Thang above a 12L. I guess my point is, unless the comparison consists of a blind test where the two samples are instantaneously switched between, I don't put much stock in statements from musicians about how much better their rig sounds after changing to wooden control knobs or whatever.

 

[ZEN Amps]

My understanding is that our auditory memory is very short, and easily corrupted by our own perception. So by the time you swap speakers/pickups/tubes/crystal lettuces/whatever, unless it took less than around six seconds, your memory of the previous sound is corrupted/inaccurate. I'll have to find where I read that tidbit though, I seem to recall it being somewhere more academic than a guitar forum.

I read about this years ago, I think it was Diana Deutsch - a pretty fascinating character if you're looking for some light reading. If I recall correctly her research showed hearing/sound is the least reliable of the senses when it comes to recall and/or memory.

This is pretty easy to believe in the context of tone-chasing. How many times have you played your amp and though now sounded brighter, darker etc than the previous day? Same setting, same everything but you swear it's different. The next day, perhaps it's different again. But have you ever looked at or touched your amp and though there was a change...

It's been a very important thing to remember in my career (working in audio). You have to learn to trust your ears, but that doesn't mean utter blind (deaf?) faith. Coming back to referencing recordings and using measurement data/tools is critical.

These principles are what makes experiments like John's really useful. People using general adjectives based on anecdotal accounts - warm, smooth, punchy - is not all the reliable or helpful. E.g. Avatar says 'the low end acquires a bit more punch' after break-in. What does this mean? Nothing to me.

And here's something really interesting - how we perceive sound is partially dependent on your mother tongue. So the average Aussie may actually hear and interpret sound in varying frequency ranges differently than a German. Could explain why my friend Hans enjoys the 2015 Vintage 30's I sold him!

In fact I think it also applies to accents, so even English speakers of different backgrounds can experience this phenomenon.

 

[7704A]

It's been a very important thing to remember in my career (working in audio). You have to learn to trust your ears, but that doesn't mean utter blind (deaf?) faith. Coming back to referencing recordings and using measurement data/tools is critical.

These principles are what makes experiments like John's really useful.

Agreed, I value John's work for much the same reasons.

 

[stephen sawall]

The numbers I have seen are in the same range as six seconds.
I know from my own experience with direct A/B comparison things are not always as they seem. Blind or not sometimes.

 

[Bad Brain]

What’s the best method to break in new speakers? What is sufficient in terms of time, power, volume? Got some new 60 watt v30’s that I’d like to try.

 

[stephen sawall]

What’s the best method to break in new speakers? What is sufficient in terms of time, power, volume? Got some new 60 watt v30’s that I’d like to try.

If it is a pair I usually put them in a 4x12 with a pair that is already broken in. Then just use them. Fryette Deliverance 120 is my preference.

But lots of methods have been used. It's mostly playing loud music through them that is full range.
Use two-thirds of the rated speaker power for a couple of hours and probably filter the bottom end to 60Hz because we don't want too much excursion into a paper cone because of the risk of damage. Some say hit them with the bottom. Some say pink noise is the best balance of low frequencies and high frequencies.

Isn't pink noise most similar to what guitar players do when adding distortion ?

It's a good idea to warm up old or new speakers if they haven't been used in awhile. I just turn on the amp and let the hum run through the speakers for several minutes. Then play moderate volume a few minutes. Before hitting them with high dB's.

 

[RaceU4her]

We then convert it into a Hellatone by exercising the suspension for 15 hours so when you get it, it has a warmer tone on the very first note. This process warms up the low end and smooths out the midrange slightly. The Hellatone model 60 really projects and is great for all kinds of music, especially Rock and Metal! Large heavy 50 oz magnet!

wouldnt bouncing around in the back of a 18 wheeler hitting every bump across the country exercise the suspension if the speaker is face down in the box like every new speaker ive gotten? some of the pot holes i hit around here exercise my brains suspension

 

[dave74]

wouldnt bouncing around in the back of a 18 wheeler hitting every bump across the country exercise the suspension if the speaker is face down in the box like every new speaker ive gotten? some of the pot holes i hit around here exercise my brains suspension

No because we all know our shipping company drivers always slow down for bumps and turns, so as to never damage the customer's packages.

 

[Scumback Speakers]

btw what is the closest thing you have to a quad of 25-30 watt blackbacks?

ps love your speakers!!

The BM75 for G12M BlackBacks, and the BH75 for the G12H30 BlackBacks. Same cones, same doping, same bat channel.

Tubes, sheesh. I finally got over my NOS power tube lust in 2013 at the LA Amp Show. I had two 50w 1987 clones I built (same specs/yada yada) and I put NOS preamp tubes in both, put NOS EL34's in one, and current production EL34's in the other. The power tubes were the only difference.

I hooked up my Metro Amp Switcher to both, so they used the same cabinet. No one (out of about 25-30 people) could tell the difference, or the difference was so subtle that they couldn't cost justify a $400 pair of NOS Telefunken EL 34's to JJ EL34's for $70 a pair.

The whole break in thing...I've been friends with Dave from Avatar since 2005 (maybe earlier). When players say they don't hear the difference between brand new and broken in speakers he chalks it up to experience. It is what it is.

And with that, I'm going to go grab a cup of coffee and turn on some football!

Stay safe out there tonight RT members!

Jim

 

[Rex Rocker]

I'm not debating wether speaker break in is real or not.

But I always thought that if you thought a new speaker sounds harsh when new, and you feel like you need to pound it actually playing it loud is just masochism.

Plenty of speakers sound great out of the box and arguably get even better with time.

 

[the other John Browne]

Very nice test, really liked it!

The only thing that came to my mind: have you considered that your setup feeding the signal to the speaker maybe goes through a break-in period as well? For example, how many playing hours did the Diezel pedal had when you started the test and could 300 hours on it possibly affect the tone?
So best thing would be, having two separate setups, one that is used for the break-in one for attaining the EQ-curves.

I know this sounds like splitting hairs, but I worked in the science field and this would usually be the questions that pop up when doing analytical work on this high level. General thinking is, if you don`t know if factor "X" is affecting your results, try to exclude it the best way possible from affecting your data.

Anyways, I`m not here for bashing you. Keep on going! I watch your stuff with high interest.

Thanks for the input, man! Much appreciated. I had considered that to an extent but it wasn't the preamp pedal that had me concerned. It was the Seymour Duncan power amp that had me wondering if I could trust it which it was why I introduced a second power amp after testing the first speaker.
Both power amps had their own EQ curves but they showed the same differences for the speakers before and after their respective break in procedures.
Also, speaker 49 and the two speakers I sent away received their final sweeps and reamps directly after each other and each showed a different break in pattern.
The differences before and after were consistent between power amps and between the reamps using Voxengo SPAN for analysis and the R.E.W. sweeps. All that makes my fairly confident regarding the source signal

 

[boltzthrower]

What’s the best method to break in new speakers? What is sufficient in terms of time, power, volume? Got some new 60 watt v30’s that I’d like to try.

I use my DAW to record some clean riffs, mostly down tuned palm mutes since my goal is to get those cones really moving and I play the recording on loop through the mounted speakers at loud drummer volume. IME about 60 hours will make a noticeable difference on most speakers but some of the high wattage speakers, stiff ones with lots of doping, can take longer. I use a solid state amp so I’m not degrading any tubes. I have a specific 12L that I always use as a reference for before/after comparisons.

I recently did 46 hours on a DV-77 and Mojotone Greyhound, and 36 hours on a NOS SRO. The Greyhound has a lot of highs, now the low end has filled out and gotten smoother, speaker sounds more balanced and no longer shrill. DV-77 got smoother. SRO sounds exactly the same at 36 hours, it’s a bestial speaker so I’m not surprised.

Maybe someone can enlighten us on how to do the variac break in method.

 

[7704A]

I use my DAW to record some clean riffs, mostly down tuned palm mutes since my goal is to get those cones really moving and I play the recording on loop through the mounted speakers at loud drummer volume. IME about 60 hours will make a noticeable difference on most speakers but some of the high wattage speakers, stiff ones with lots of doping, can take longer. I use a solid state amp so I’m not degrading any tubes. I have a specific 12L that I always use as a reference for before/after comparisons.

I recently did 46 hours on a DV-77 and Mojotone Greyhound, and 36 hours on a NOS SRO. The Greyhound has a lot of highs, now the low end has filled out and gotten smoother, speaker sounds more balanced and no longer shrill. DV-77 got smoother. SRO sounds exactly the same at 36 hours, it’s a bestial speaker so I’m not surprised.

Maybe someone can enlighten us on how to do the variac break in method.

I was going to ask how long it took to break in the EV(s), but it sounds like you didn't.

 

[Cenotaph]

I would say speaker break in does alter the sound, but just logically thinking about it. How can it always be better? Sometimes it has to make things sound worse.

 

[stephen sawall]

Too bad they can't come up with a better medium than paper. Something more consistent. That sounds as good as paper.

Celestion for the 100th anniversary is just about to release a new 30 watt alnico speaker.