Is MAC/Apple the only way?

[JerEvil]

Yowsa, even better deal. They will ding me on customs the bastards but that is a ton of stuff. Might just get that and a bigger monitor for my studio and have at it. (customs is a thing I will never understand.. a small envelope with a 300$ price tag will still mean tax...gotta love free SLOW healthcare though!)

LOL! I hear you!

Hey, when are we going to record something???

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

Yowsa, even better deal. They will ding me on customs the bastards but that is a ton of stuff. Might just get that and a bigger monitor for my studio and have at it. (customs is a thing I will never understand.. a small envelope with a 300$ price tag will still mean tax...gotta love free SLOW healthcare though!)

LOL! I hear you!

Hey, when are we going to record something???

Maybe down the line, I got one tune down (finally) with real drums (my feet were out of practice so I needed about 25 takes) but I kind of liked how I sounded on it so I thought what the hell, I'm going for it on the vox myself! This could either be a total disaster or end up good. Tuned down to Eb though, wayyyyy easier to work with you were right.

 

[HilltopExplosion]

The $$ are adding up here! I think I am going to grab an ilok for 50$ and try some slate demos. if a 200$ plugin gives me what I need, I will hold the line for now. I could see this becoming a slippery slope....first you start with a Mac...then a preamp/converter......then Pro Tools so you can mix like a pro. I'm rocking Reaper right now and it does everything I need. It would really suck to spend 4k on all this shit and then listen back to back and note a 5% improvement on a track that will be listened to by Rig Talk, 5 guys on my hockey team and my niece!

I'm with ya there brother!! Me too!

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

ahhh nuts, just noticed the 299$ I dropped is for the year only meaning you have to subscribe all the time to this (300 a year) or buy the pieces individually. Still though, I suppose if you use it all for a year , pause subscription and then do nothing for the next two years, you don't have thousands of gear hanging around. I will see just have to commit more time to music and less with dicking with jamming.

 

[155]

logic rules, macs rule , I wouldnt bother will a high $ interface you will never know the difference, just get some good mics and a middle of the road interface that has all the ins and out you need..

 

[xzyryabx]

When I try to record I use a 2011 macbook pro (w/ SSD and 16GB RAM - you can buy these used all day long for under $1k), my DAW is Reaper, and I can record flawlessly. TONS of tracks, a bunch of plugins, unnoticeable latency, no issues at all.
Like VRAD said, don't get hung up on the gear.
Just buy any PC/mac w/ an SSD and 16GB RAM, any interface (around $300-500), your DAW of choice, an SM57, and get at it.

 

[PBGas]

I don't tend to use iLok based plugins. There is so much that is in the box with some of the top DAWs now a days that if you spend some time using what you have, you may surprise yourself!

The Focusrite Clarett 8 is a great interface. Really love mine and have had no issues with it. I had to track some drums for a friend and the extra inputs came in really handy and the air switch gives it a nice tone on each track as needed. I wouldn't suggest one of the newer mac mini's until they run them with quad cores again. The late 2012 versions are superb machines and you can load them with dual SSDs as well as update the memory to 16GB. The newer ones have a slightly better video card but other than that, there isn't much really improved.

Good luck with your choice!

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

Well, upgrading to Mac also means I can't use my presinus firepod unless a new interface allows me to connect to it. That should be simple enough to do but it forces me to have to buy Mac + hardware. seems if you want to make the jump to Mac then you gotta go all in. Prob the reason most folks just stick with their PC s running XP. Mine is very stable. We will see how well it handles the slate plugins when I start to load them on.

 

[clcwarlock]

Apollo to me has the edge because of the quality of their plugins but they aren't the only ones with plugin suite (thought that Neve preamp sim is damn sweet the more I listen to it)but I agree, I am not going to make something that rivals a pro recording but to me clarity and less fizz are important. That's why I want to make the jump from my presonus firepod which was a great intro to being able to track 8 tracks at once, but now is showing it's weaknesses. Lots of similar reviews on presonus limitations all over the net. Lots of people seem to be hearing what I hear.

Was checking this bad boy out too though: https://us.focusrite.com/mic-pres/isa-428-mkii#

It does however look more and more like a jump to MAC is what needs to happen.

Kapo,

Going by what you stated in the initial post, I'd caution you against overstating the importance of gear for what you're looking to do. In most cases, a good DAW (Logic X, Cubase, Pro-Tools, etc...), a decent machine, and a reasonable interface ($400-600) will be enough to get you started. 90% of making a great recording is comprised of:
1-Great Performance/Arrangement
2-Practice miking up sources to get the best sound possible
3-Proper gain staging
4-Adjusting faders and panning

You would be impressed at how far you can go before you even need to hit the plugins. Also, these days DAWs some with very comprehensive plug-in suite. Logic for example also comes with some killer soft synths. Many of these plugins are as good as the high priced ones.

I would also caution you against expecting pro-level recordings out the gate. The big boys use things we don't have access to and chasing that is a fools errand that will keep you from developing your mixing chops.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents.

I totally agree with this above. Before I recorded, mixed and mastered my album myself, I read that "A great Song/Performance will outshine any part of the recording" just listen to old Robert Johnson records. The more you do this process the better you will get.

 

[MrFlexx]

The Apollo Twin Duo USB can be used for Windows. I use RME myself and I'm about to get the Apollo because I'm using both Windows and OSX and I want the UAD Friedman and Marshall plugins.

 

[paulyc]

I use a Mac Mini I got in a bundle from GC, the Thunderbolt stuff is awesome...I need a better interface though.

 

[rsm]

Ableton Live 9.5 Suite (and Push 2)
Focusrite Scarlett 2i4
Pair of KRK Rokit 5
Alienware X51 now running Windows 10.

Most of my new modeling gear and electronic rig have direct audio over USB, so I use the 2i4 for playback headphone / monitors these days.

Still learning the rig (on and off for a year, I have a bunch of new gear, and find it tough to focus on anything long enough LOL), and I want to learn Max for Live, some good plug-ins there, many are free or low cost. Eventually, I'll get a laptop for a mobile rig. If I got it today, it would be an Alienware 13 with Ableton Live 9.5 Suite, Push 2, and my Alesis Vortex Wireless; maybe my KMI Softstep2...

 

[Adambomb]

I've bought and returned a few Mac's this year cause I was new to Mac and finally settled on a MacBook Pro 15" (Late 2015) model and it's blown away both iMac's and the one Mac Mini I tried.
I started researching and got as much info as possible for a few months on some recording-other forums and went with the majority decision as far as home-pro studio gear. I was using a HP Slim for years, Presonus Audiobox w/ Studio One A2 which sounded really no better than my multitrack Roland years ago, I actually compared recordings. After switching to the MacBook Pro and that alone seemed to make an improvement in the "aliveness" and quality of mic'd guitar tones with my old interface and DAW. But after getting Logic Pro X it really stepped up the quality by far.

Also can't say enough good things about the Audient iD14 I've been using for last couple months. It was the most recommend in my $200-$400 range specs I think is one of the best bang for your buck interface for $300. But I might have gotten one of the Apogee or UAD interfaces if was in my budget. Mainly the MacBook Pro 15inch w/16gig ram, an i7 Intel 2.5Ghz CPU, and 256G flash storage is what really got me going and inspired with changing my home studio setup.. and got lucky by finding it at my local Best Buy for $1649 on an "accidental" price match they did that was for lower spec'd model I found out.

But mainly it was the functionality and OS of the MacBook especially in Logic Pro X is what has inspired me to compose and record more much at home. Just my experience.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

Call any legit studio within 3000 miles and let me know how many of them use PC's.

Not really the point... with a Mac you get speed and the latest hardware compatibility and software compatibilities but ask yourself how quick your OS gets unsupported or will no longer function with your hardware and you are in a situation where you will constantly be upgrading. For speed , absolutely...

As for PC, I was considering upgrading to Mac to start with but then i see my firepod is not compatible with OS 10.11. Is it the greatest amp pre? nope. .. but the converters are clean enough to get the job done and probably as good as anything they would have used when they started bouncing to digital medium to mix. Agreed that performance is first. If MJ could beat box beat it and layer his vocal harmonies over simple 2-3 tracks and sound great on a demo, i think any DAW now will do just fine and produce something worth listening to. Yes digital does not have the warmth or space that analog does but that is a whole other argument and mixing on a Mac won't throw you back to the days of tape.

I am actually going the other way now... my PC running XP is super stable and works great. I can still upgrade the RAM if needed and i don't need to buy a whole new interface to then use with a Mac. I actually just got a set of SM81's to improve my drum overheads and will probably add a sm7b for vocals later on. If anything, i am starting to see that i would place mic over preamp, and preamp over converter. Shure a 2-3 k mic is going to bennefit from a better preamp than a presonus built in pre but will it be THAT much better off through a 2,000$ Neve preamp than it would through a 4-500 golden age MKIII preamp for example? In a mix, I am not so sure. Add to the fact that there are lots of Neve emulation plugins out there now and for us hobbiests, spending money on appollo interfaces and Macs isn't necessarily going to pay for itself.Besides, if you consider that these interfaces like the appollo and apogee are intended to be as neutral and as clean as you can get, you still end up buying outboard gear to get that vintage tone.

Anyway, bit of a rant. If i could have my way it would be an 80's console right into decent converter and into my daw.Does an actual DAW change the tone? How can it deliver anything different than what goes into it? Would love to see a DAW shootout.. i doubt i would hear that much difference?

 

[Stratboy151]

I'm dying for an Apogee interface. I need to make that happen soon.

 

[BYTOR]

You mean everyone doesn't own a Mac? PC's still sell???

 

[JamesPeters]

Not really the point... with a Mac you get speed and the latest hardware compatibility and software compatibilities...

Speed isn't really an issue anymore. PCs are as good; it just depends on what you buy.

In terms of compatibility: it's a mixed bag. If you get something that's known to work on Macs, it should work (and there are still no guarantees as to it working perfectly). The same could be said of certain PC configurations, but there are just so many more PC configurations due to how open that "world" is. I try to stick to mainboards, processors, etc. that have a good track record. Because of this I have had very few problems with compatibility in my PCs.

...digital does not have the warmth or space that analog does...

Digital potentially has more space, if you're talking about low noise and dynamic range (which may not be what you mean). Warmth becomes less of a matter of "that's just how it is" and "what warmth do I want, how much, and where". And let's face it, none (or very few) of us were using 2" tape on the best tape consoles so we don't get to brag about how great tape was. Tape wasn't very good for the most part, and was only good if you had some of the best equipment (very large, heavy and expensive).

Here's something I found quite amusing on this subject:

http://prufrockak.wix.com/protools13

I am actually going the other way now... my PC running XP is super stable and works great.

If anything I might recommend Windows 7 to ensure better compatibility with software and hardware. Some of the software I use has evolved out of XP compatibility, or so I've heard. Also if you're not using 64-bit Windows yet, the usable RAM limit of 4GB could be a concern (if your projects contain samplers with very large banks like some drum plugins for instance, or synth plugins with sample banks)...or if you edit video.

i am starting to see that i would place mic over preamp, and preamp over converter. Shure a 2-3 k mic is going to bennefit from a better preamp than a presonus built in pre but will it be THAT much better off through a 2,000$ Neve preamp than it would through a 4-500 golden age MKIII preamp for example? In a mix, I am not so sure.

I'd agree. And treatment of your room is more important than a "good" converter versus a "great" converter.

The Golden Age stuff sounds really good. It's not identical to Neve, but who says that specifically Neve is something everyone needs to use. (Don't listen to Dave Grohl, lol...) It's weird how even small differences can bring out people saying it's no good at all; I don't get that. Especially for the average guitarist/vocalist recording close-mic in less-than-optimal rooms. If you're recording grand pianos in an awesome room, it's easier to get picky. Even so I'm not sure I'd care that much about the differences in sound of preamps which are all really good sounding; I'd care more about which preamp happens to work best for the approach I'm using.

Add to the fact that there are lots of Neve emulation plugins out there now and for us hobbiests,

Using a certain preamp versus coloring the sound later isn't quite the same thing. If you try hard enough you can get close in some regards, but if you want the sound of using that preamp you'd probably just prefer to use the preamp (or some preamp that sounds reasonably close). I'd recommend trying a GAP at least, comparing with what you have, so you can hear the difference and decide if it's something you care about.

Does an actual DAW change the tone? How can it deliver anything different than what goes into it? Would love to see a DAW shootout.. i doubt i would hear that much difference?

They don't have any difference in sound. This has been beaten to death on all the DAW forums. As long as it's apples-to-apples comparisons (same sample rate, bit depth, pan law, final encoding if applicable), the null tests prove the results are the same. If you're talking about DAWs with built-in effects that are just part of how it functions, that's different (Mixbuss for instance). Even so, the emulations "built in" can be done similarly in other "clean DAWs" using plugins instead and it doesn't have to be anything very special either (maybe just a bit of subtle clipping, crosstalk and/or harmonic generation). It's more about how you choose to work, and which DAW seems to suit your workflow preferences best.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

Great post James... I actually tried upgrading to Windows 7 and because I had an OEM license that came from HP with the system, it does not allow me to validate my licence. I tried Win 10 and created a boot disk and it just sat there spinning. So I said screw it.. I don't run many drum plugins. I drum myself and eq/compress to taste. If I were to get into some video editing than yeah, I can see where there might be a need for more speed.

As for the preamps, I am definitely in the market. I think the GAP MKIII would interest me with the added EQ filters so I am thinking I might actually go with something like the radial workhorse 6 unit (cheaper for us in Canada and has some cool features) and be able to play in the 500 series space down the line. The GAP 500 series sell for 390$ vs 490$/325$ for the junior stand alone units and if i catch the bug after one or two of these, I would probably DIY a few others and make some API clones. Again, these won't be exactly like the real preamp but they will be of the same colour and from what I have seen, an improvement on my built in pres. I feel like I need to buy in two's as I dual mic my cab and for drum overhead purposes.

 

[JamesPeters]

I have a Radial Workhorse that houses 3 units. I like its 1/4" outputs, in my case, since I'm plugging into a fairly regular PC sound device with unbalanced inputs. I downgraded from a 6-space API Lunchbox since I sold my four EQ modules (since I prefer to EQ in the computer), which left me with 2 preamps and a whole lotta empty space and took up more room on my desk than I wanted. The dangerous thing about having a rack like this with empty spaces: you keep thinking about filling those spaces. As it is I made a little panel to cover the 3rd (unused) space so it didn't bother me anymore seeing it empty.

The preamps I use: Fivefish Studios X-72 and X-12 (500 series versions), "Neve-like" and "API-like" respectively. I had four of their PEQ modules too. I've compared with Neve and API as well as GAP PRE-73 MKII units in direct comparisons. They're all really good, including the GAP. The X-12 ("API-like") design was originally less spikey/punchy and more flat sounding when I bought it; the Fivefish guy later modified the design. He gave me the mod info and I tried it...then I modified it again to "split the difference" since as it turns out I'm not that big a fan of something really "API-like" after all. I also messed around adding DOAs vs the ICs, and there's a small difference which I sometimes appreciate. I left them in the preamps, I think...that was a long time ago. You can go down a rabbit hole with this sort of thing especially if you're like me (you know what I do for a living). Rest assured the current GAP units sound nice and shouldn't make you feel you've missed out on something, unless you already have experience with multiple preamps like this and want something very nitpicky-specific.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

You are right about the empty slots.. I know I am going to want to fill them sooner rather than later. This could get dangerous as a result of that. Might just stick with two stand alone units and call it a day or maybe the small 3 enclosure workhorse.