Japan - too serious not to be a thread on the main forum.

[Gooseman]

Seriously, what the hell is going on over there? I can't see how all this could've occured. How could Japan have built these nuclear powerplants on fault lines, with backup and security systems that have failed them? Honestly, they are now relying on ocean water to cool the reactors -- how the heck did the UN inspectors or any other international body not see the potential problems that we are now faced with.

This isn't a stricly Japanese problem either -- it is a world problem. The radiation being leaked is not within the "legal limit," as purported by the Japanese government, otherwise they wouldn't have told people to stay indoors and to keep wet towels over their mouths. A US warship is now contaminated with radiation -- and they were 100 miles off shore! We are now learning this morning that the rods have been fully exposed in one of the reactors. What happens if the radiation is so bad in an area that people can't even survive going there without getting sick? Then, what -- I guess we are just left with watching the reactors meltdown, all the while hoping for the best.

There is more than one reactor that is failing. That says a lot right there. The Japanese was not and IS not prepared to handle this situation. If one fails and spews radiation, all while people aren't able to go near it, then what will be the fate of the neighboring reactors that are in trouble? Will the Japanese be able to continue finding alternative ways of cooling them? And, are these alternatives even sustainable?

There are too many questions and not enought answers. All we get is conflicting information. How can this be? How could they not have prepared for this? It is absolutely unbelievable.

What do you all think? I am very nervous about all of this and I'm curious to know what you all think.

 

[RoidRage]

It's very bad to say the least...

The whole Country is on fault lines... So it's not that they just built the plants on top of them... They had three backups... Diezel generators, then batteries to keep pumping water to cool the rods.

The Quake took out the main system, Then the Tsunami, took out the Diezel generators, and also the backup batteries... They didn't account for back to back disasters.

The big problem IS that they were still trying to get power from these! they depend on them for 35% of Japans power, and didn't want to cut electricity! So they waited till they had a partial meltdown to flood the chamber with sea water & acid... This has effectively RUINED each 1 Billion dollar Plant... Small Price to stop another Chernobal

We don't know if the Containment structure has been breached yet, or just how bad this really is... I suspect at least a partial meltdown and release of Cesium which has a 30 year half life. Particals will get blown up into the jet stream, and get carried to the West Coast US if there is a substantial release, then get carried across the US to the East Coast contaminating Farmland and Water supplies... There are still fields in Irerland that are useless because of Chernobal...

NOT GOOD!

RR

 

[Gooseman]

I know it. This is absolutely not helping me maintain my focus in my day-to-day.

 

[RoidRage]

I know it. This is absolutely not helping me maintain my focus in my day-to-day.

Sorry!

But look at it this way, we are all in the same boat... Just stock up on Iodine pills....

Roid

 

[Gooseman]

I know it. This is absolutely not helping me maintain my focus in my day-to-day.

Sorry!

But look at it this way, we are all in the same boat... Just stock up on Iodine pills....

Roid

Are you actually doing this?

 

[Gooseman]

Japan is going to lie to keep the people there from rioting. If people think that the radiation is inevitable and that the reactors are going to meltdown, they will:

1) Fend for themselves
2) Stop working, thus destroying the Japanese economy
3) Act violently and unpredictably
4) Stop working towards (and putting themselves in harm's way) trying to combat the failing reactors

Let's just say that things are worse than they have officially stated. What would be gained from them leveling with people and giving them such bleak news? Nothing would be accomplished and people will riot. Look at what happened during the Rodney King beatings. When the cops in LA were adquitted of their actions, minorities lost faith in the government and went balistic, fending for themselves. The same happened in the United States in Massachusetts after the Revolutionary War, when many people and states were poor. The Confederation did not have the power to make the sweeping changes that were necessary and people freaked -- then came the Constitution and the Federal government that we are all so familiar with. Japan is an isolated island, and the people there cannot escape. There is little reason to come clean if it means that there is little hope that things will truly be okay and casualty free. People are going to be sick for years in Japan. This is the biggest disaster we've seen since World War II. This thing just dwarfs 9/11.

Just look at all of the conflicting information that is out there. The Japanese government states that the explosion occured from the build up of hydrogen, while the International Nuclear Agency/Commission states that it could have only occured as a result of a core meltdown.

 

[Gooseman]

Honestly, I come here to rig talk to get away from the end of the world news and life in general. The last thing I want is more nuclear meltdown hysterics on my favorite forum.

My bad, Reza. I honestly didn't think of it that way when I started this thread. Perhaps, I shouldn't have posted this here then. I see your perspective fully. This is just so crazy, I was trying to see what other inquiring minds were thinking.

 

[TeleBlaster]

Two hydrogen gas explosions so far. Reactor 1 & 3 are releasing contamination detected up to 100 miles offshore by the USS Ronald Reagan.
They are pumping boron and seawater into 1, 2, and 3. These reactors will never be salvaged. It is a last ditch effort to keep control.
Hoping that reactor 4 if running, is able to go through a normal shut down procedure.
The newsies are complete idiots and are not asking the right questions.
The heat exchange systems are two stage and are completely isolated.
It works like your air conditioner. The fluid that takes the heat from the reactor core is separate and isolated, like the freon in your a/c unit.
The thermal energy is transfer in the condenser, but unlike your a/c it is not air blowing through the condenser but water that is super heated into steam either in this portion of the heat exchanger or by another heated fluid in another stage.
What we can assume is the condenser has been ruptured, exposing radioactive gases to the atmosphere.
What we NEED to know is if the heat exchange system has been catastrophically damaged on the primary or core side or is leaking but can still contain pressure, this could be really really bad if it cannot hold any pressure.
Also, they just said that reactor #1 core is exposed.
This does NOT mean that it is "open" to the atmosphere. This means the primary cooling fluid has been boiled down or leaked out enough to expose the core.
The primary side works like your car cooling system, it is pressurized and sealed. If pressurization is lost, the fluid will boil and erupt.
How bad is #1, or #2 for that matter? We know they have leaked pressurized hydrogen into the reactor buildings and they have exploded like the Hindenberg.
Are the heat exchangers catastrophically breached or was the pressure release intentional to prevent over taxing the heat exchangers' limits?

 

[jerrydyer]

everything on this entire planet is greed driven. you would think with all our technology we would have several back up plans for something like that. Backup plans on top of back up plans. Its like fossil fuels. Are you kidding me? Why are we still using that crap. Greed will destroy everything. Japan doesnt really care about its citizens and neither does the US.

 

[Spaceboy]

I feel that Japan is better equipped to deal with this situation than any other country in the world.

 

[Spaceboy]

everything on this entire planet is greed driven. you would think with all our technology we would have several back up plans for something like that. Backup plans on top of back up plans. Its like fossil fuels. Are you kidding me? Why are we still using that crap. Greed will destroy everything. Japan doesnt really care about its citizens and neither does the US.

That tinfoil hat isn't going to save you from radiation exposure.

 

[MisterBulbous]

Gooseman:
Based on the quote below, you obviously know nothing about the japanese culture.

Japan is going to lie to keep the people there from rioting. If people think that the radiation is inevitable and that the reactors are going to meltdown, they will:

1) Fend for themselves
2) Stop working, thus destroying the Japanese economy
3) Act violently and unpredictably
4) Stop working towards (and putting themselves in harm's way) trying to combat the failing reactors

I would advise you to be careful of drawing comparisons between the LA riot and this horrible natural disaster. The last thing you will see is looting, coordinated attempts to overthrow the government, and mayhem. You are wrong on so many levels it isn't even worth debating.

 

[JakeAC5253]

everything on this entire planet is greed driven.

I'll give you that.

you would think with all our technology we would have several back up plans for something like that. Backup plans on top of back up plans. Its like fossil fuels. Are you kidding me? Why are we still using that crap. Greed will destroy everything. Japan doesnt really care about its citizens and neither does the US.

All of this is just nonsense.

 

[TeleBlaster]

Hope they got a supply of kamikaze helicopter pilots and a gazillion metric tons of concrete handy!

 

[marshall]

They survived the wrath of Godzilla, Rodan, Mothra, Godzilla. Nuclear reactors are a piece of cake.

 

[redrol]

everything on this entire planet is greed driven. you would think with all our technology we would have several back up plans for something like that. Backup plans on top of back up plans. Its like fossil fuels. Are you kidding me? Why are we still using that crap. Greed will destroy everything. Japan doesnt really care about its citizens and neither does the US.

How do you expect to sell anything when you have this attitude? Very childish.

 

[Gooseman]

Gooseman:
Based on the quote below, you obviously know nothing about the japanese culture.

Japan is going to lie to keep the people there from rioting. If people think that the radiation is inevitable and that the reactors are going to meltdown, they will:

1) Fend for themselves
2) Stop working, thus destroying the Japanese economy
3) Act violently and unpredictably
4) Stop working towards (and putting themselves in harm's way) trying to combat the failing reactors

I would advise you to be careful of drawing comparisons between the LA riot and this horrible natural disaster. The last thing you will see is looting, coordinated attempts to overthrow the government, and mayhem. You are wrong on so many levels it isn't even worth debating.

First of all, I am partly Japanese! Geez! Secondly, I have a Masters in Public Admin. Clearly, I can still be wrong about anything and everything, but still though -- I have an understanding of these types of political and public situations. Perception is key, and governing effectively will be based on this. There is no win for the Japanese government to speak out bleakly about the events, if they are dire indeed. That is a fact. What they need to do is find out how to mobilize their people to best lead them out of this disaster. Japan is a very responsible nation, and has been since they reorganized and regalvanized their economy in the 1990s. I am comparing the attitudes of desperation, from the people of Japan currently, to other people at different periods of history. The common element is faith. If the people lose faith in the government, the element that binds us together, and creates a sense of security and commonality amongst us, then the battle will be further fought moving uphill. Japan is doing a great, remarkable job at keeping this thing underwraps thus far. I don't doubt that, and from what I've read, I believe it. Yet, my 5 years as a professional working at various levels of state and local government also tells me that there may be more to the story than what we previously know. I am simply laying out the rationale that incentive to be completely forthcoming isn't exactly in the best interests of governing effectively. It doesn't have to be viewed as being misleading, its just apart of effective leadership -- giving people what they need to know and only that.

I appreciate your comments, although I don't know why you personally attacked my knowledge through cherry picking what I stated and taking it out of context.

 

[9ball]

Honestly, I come here to rig talk to get away from the end of the world news and life in general. The last thing I want is more nuclear meltdown hysterics on my favorite forum.

+1. Godzilla attacking japan belongs in off topic! lol

 

[9ball]

everything on this entire planet is greed driven. you would think with all our technology we would have several back up plans for something like that. Backup plans on top of back up plans. Its like fossil fuels. Are you kidding me? Why are we still using that crap. Greed will destroy everything. Japan doesnt really care about its citizens and neither does the US.

How do you expect to sell anything when you have this attitude? Very childish.

what's so childish about being realistic?

 

[boof]

boof checks for flights to seoul...