Kiesel's customer service sucks!

[MYLILSS]

I have several Carvin/Kiesel guitars, and another custom build in the works. I actually ordered it through mike jones and he was awesome to deal with and totally hooked me up with a few custom touches I wanted. My PRS, EVH, and Ibanez guitars collect dust these days because my kiesel guitars are all that I play.

I have heard a few horror stories and don't doubt yours one bit. im just glad my experiences have been great so far, and hopefully whatever issues they may have can be fixed, because stuff like this will surely cost them business

 

[Holy-diver]

On a completely separate note...Mesa has by far the best customer service I have experienced. My Mark IV started acting wonky in early November. Ended up taking it to a local authorized service center. These guys had the amp for 10 FUCKING WEEKS! I called them every week after them having it for 3 weeks and me not hearing anything. Their site says 7-10 days. So I started making weekly calls. Only talked to the actual tech once, talked to a different person each week. Finally got sick of it and called Mesa. Talked to Rich. Explain the situation and he says...wait, 10 weeks?! That's just ridiculous. Calls me back 20 minutes later after talking to the tech lol. Next day, I picked the amp up and shipped it to Mesa. When I picked it up, the dude tells me...I shoulda sent it to Mesa a month ago. I should've just sent it to them in the first place. The amp is now on its way back to me and should be here Tuesday. Total time that Mesa had the amp before calling me to tell me it was ready: 1. Fucking. Week. Why these local guys had it for 10 weeks is beyond me.

not to mention when you actually talk to them they obviously care a lot about their products and customers, even when the amp is 30+ years old!

 

[kunos]

I'm not so surprised that they take parts off of finished guitars for NAMM as I can imagine there is a big pressure there, but the fact that they say it out loud with such arrogance and seem blind to the notion that it is waaaay wrong once the guitar is paid.

that's the part that shocked me the most. I might understand that it might happen and it is something that becomes "normal" in the workplace, but is it really necessary to share that info with a paying customer? "Sorry man, your guitar was ready but it's now being salvaged for parts, or maybe not, who knows?". What do they expect the customer to think about it?

I understand that pressure in those periods when big shows are approaching can reach super high level, but a custom guitar company has to be about customer relationships first.

Sad (but predictable) to see this turning into a gangbang, but I really can't blame you guys for being so disappointed about it.

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

Wow. Sorry to hear about this Mike.

I will definitely avoid Keisel & Carvin like the plague. That jacked up Hipshot bridge is ridiculous.

 

[maddnotez]

So who else has Keisel here?

I have like I said seen a few of you guys rave about them but a common description I see online is "thin and lifeless" I have personally never played one. Have been curious but also have been turned off by that description above.

They can look great and for a custom the price seems great but for me at the end of the day, how does it play and how does it sound?

 

[dawnofdreamx97]

.

 

[Shask]

That's ridiculous. There was another guy NinjaRaf who had a Kiesel last year that looked like a similar bridge and similar issue. I think you were on the right track with a neck shim and/or taller hipshot. This could have & should have been fixed and pretty easy if you are a guitar tech.

I ordered a Multiscale with a different bridge and it came out super nice....but I'm seeing too many stories that look like this issue is not unique.
If you see your guitar on the in stock inventory page update this thread, lol! I want to see more of it.

Oh Hai!!

I ordered a couple of Kiesels in 2015. SCB6 and DC600. Both pretty similar overall in terms of what I wanted aesthetically, and man did they come out incredible in that sense. But they were both plagued with basically unfixable problems.

Problem 1...both guitars had similar issues to yours with the bridge, but not as extreme. The heights on yours are just insane. Mine were really high, and didn't really have room for adjustment, but I don't remember them being quite that high (though, we are talking a year or so ago when my DC600 went away).

Problem 2...I wanted to replace the pickups in my DC600 with some Dimarzio Dominions. Get the bridge installed perfectly fine. Go to install the neck, and I am adjusting pickup height, and I feel a pinch on my leg...flip the guitar over...screws went through the fucking body. Pull them out...turns out, they use different length of screw for the neck and bridge pickup mounting. The neck pup screws are about .25" longer than the bridge. Why. The. Fuck. Would you do this. Who the fuck thinks to check SCREW LENGTH OF MOUNTING SCREWS when changing pickups. There are many reason these things are fucking standardized. This, for some reason, pissed me off more than anything else because...it just doesn't make any fucking sense.

Problem 3...and really the biggest problem...both guitars sounded very lifeless and dead. I also have an LTD MH400 and an LTD H400. These 2 guitars were $350 each. Both combined cost half of what one of my Kiesels cost. Both LTDs play and sound a million times better than either of my Kiesels. This, to me, is just fucking stupid.

In any case...I ended up trading my SCB6 for my Gibson Gothic V, and I traded my DC600 to a friend locally for an AR15 300 blackout pistol build lol.

The screw thing really sealed the deal for me and no more Kiesel. Sorry, but its just fucking stupid and makes no sense. Your guitar bodies are flat, and there is no neck angle on neck throughs...which means there is literally no reason to have different length screws. When I talked to them...they denied that they used different length screws and then blamed me lol. I sent them a picture of the 2 screws next to each other, and they didn't respond to it. Then they offered to fix it if I paid shipping to and from. This guitar was less than a month old at that point. So sorry that you guys are too retarded to use same length screws, I am not dealing with this crap.

Kiesel has a lot of potential. A semi-custom shop that lets you spec out nearly every fucking detail of your guitar is SUCH a great idea. But their execution needs a lot of work. Customer service needs a lot of work. And apparently, logic, too haha.

I still have your old SCB6! I actually love it!

The saddles do have some angle to them, but not near as drastic as this thread. The SCB6 has standard fret-wire. I have noticed that it seems like Hipshot+Jumbo frets seem to be the biggest culprit for this problem to be majorly dramatic.

I did change the pickups to Duncan Black Winters. I researched a long time, and eventually used completely different screws based on your issues. I agree that what they used was just stupid. I think it is stupid overall that they use threaded inserts for the back cover, but not the pickups. Even my MIK Schecter has threaded inserts for pickups.

It is still not huge, chunky, and resonant like a Les Paul, but the Duncans helped a lot. I love it for tight technical playing like Death-Symbolic, Lamb of God, etc... I still think the maple neckthrough has a lot to do with the sound.

I still want to order another Kiesel, but definitely worried after so many problems lately. There definitely seems to be many "rules", like no Option 50's, dont do Hipshot+Jumbo frets, no maple neckthrough, etc.... Sadly, there aren't many choices out there for 25" scale, which I am loving. Basically just Kiesel and PRS. I am also considering a PRS SE Custom 24.

 

[jwnc]

HI

I own 2 Carvin Bolts, I ordered them online so I never spoke to anyone. Mine are some of the best playing guitars I have. I have had it re-setup over time by my friend is who is incredible with setups and its still plays amazing at any position. I have used them on many recorded songs and live all the time.

I have never heard of anyone having that kinda of experience with them, I am sure it happens every once in awhile but I would hope its not the norm, if so it would be all over the web and on Facebook. Hope its all works out.

This is just my personal experience.
Jason

 

[Shask]

Another member mentioned this, and I'm not sure if this picture shows the neck angle/pocket as maybe contributing to the issue I had with saddle height, but here is the only pic that would show that relationship:

Look at the bottom of the fretboard in relation with the body. The "parallelism" is getting closer to the body as you approach the pickups. That neck definitely needs shimmed. I have had several Ibanezes with that "reverse angle" thing going on, and a small shim made a dramatic difference. On my guitars, I like to see that distance get larger as you approach the pickups.

 

[messenger]

Another member mentioned this, and I'm not sure if this picture shows the neck angle/pocket as maybe contributing to the issue I had with saddle height, but here is the only pic that would show that relationship:

Look at the bottom of the fretboard in relation with the body. The "parallelism" is getting closer to the body as you approach the pickups. That neck definitely needs shimmed. I have had several Ibanezes with that "reverse angle" thing going on, and a small shim made a dramatic difference. On my guitars, I like to see that distance get larger as you approach the pickups.

If it was shimmed at the rear of the pocket to make the neck more parallel to the body, wouldn't that require the bridge/saddles to be even higher to stop fret buzz?

 

[Shask]

Another member mentioned this, and I'm not sure if this picture shows the neck angle/pocket as maybe contributing to the issue I had with saddle height, but here is the only pic that would show that relationship:

Look at the bottom of the fretboard in relation with the body. The "parallelism" is getting closer to the body as you approach the pickups. That neck definitely needs shimmed. I have had several Ibanezes with that "reverse angle" thing going on, and a small shim made a dramatic difference. On my guitars, I like to see that distance get larger as you approach the pickups.

If it was shimmed at the rear of the pocket to make the neck more parallel to the body, wouldn't that require the bridge/saddles to be even higher to stop fret buzz?

Probably. It probably needs additional work of sanding in the neck pocket. It is almost like it is reverse-shimmed.

 

[mooncobra]

The few times I dealt with Mike he was a complete mega douche. Impatient, arrogant and flat out obnoxious. Chris Hong on the other hand was amazing. Could tell he cared about the customer and was very patient even though I called him a million times.

If I had to deal with Mike I would have never ordered my Kiesel. Chris gets all the credit for giving them my business.

Yes, I switched to Chris myself. he was cool.

 

[mooncobra]

I have a build in queue and after reading this kind of just want to tell them keep my 20% and good riddance.

Maybe I got lucky, but I got an A6 and it is awesome, but mine has a Floyd on it. it plays phenomenal, and sounds great. I dealt with Chris and he was cool.

 

[jsp]

So who else has Keisel here?

I have like I said seen a few of you guys rave about them but a common description I see online is "thin and lifeless" I have personally never played one. Have been curious but also have been turned off by that description above.

They can look great and for a custom the price seems great but for me at the end of the day, how does it play and how does it sound?

My first one, which is the one I still have, plays, sounds, and feels great. It has great resonance and sustain and isn't lifeless at all. I did swap out the pickups, but the guitar itself isn't a dud. I got in in 2012 so who knows about current quality. But, objectively, it's actually one of the best guitars I've had.

 

[MetalHeadMike]

I have a build in queue and after reading this kind of just want to tell them keep my 20% and good riddance.

Maybe I got lucky, but I got an A6 and it is awesome, but mine has a Floyd on it. it plays phenomenal, and sounds great. I dealt with Chris and he was cool.

Like I've said to you before my man, I'm truly glad you have had better experiences

I've been clear that I was very pleased with the aesthetics, the fit to finish, and the tone the guitar had but the action/playability and the customer service pretty much all around through the whole thing......Pitiful.

 

[MetalHeadMike]

So who else has Keisel here?

I have like I said seen a few of you guys rave about them but a common description I see online is "thin and lifeless" I have personally never played one. Have been curious but also have been turned off by that description above.

They can look great and for a custom the price seems great but for me at the end of the day, how does it play and how does it sound?

My first one, which is the one I still have, plays, sounds, and feels great. It has great resonance and sustain and isn't lifeless at all. I did swap out the pickups, but the guitar itself isn't a dud. I got in in 2012 so who knows about current quality. But, objectively, it's actually one of the best guitars I've had.

Yep, I've probably said this two or three times in this thread alone, I love my 2013 Carvin ST300c. Its a phenomenal sounding guitar and plays great. It to had issues when I got it, but I accepted the issues, fixed it myself, and moved on. Wasn't nearly as big an issue as this recent one however.

 

[fretout]

Another member mentioned this, and I'm not sure if this picture shows the neck angle/pocket as maybe contributing to the issue I had with saddle height, but here is the only pic that would show that relationship:

What in the actual phuck is up with that neck? I can't recall ever seeing a guitar that had a rake towards the front and away from the back?!? That's crazy...and backwards!

Sorry to hear about your experiences with Kiesel. It seems like a good 95% of the year i buy comes from American companies, they make their products here in the States, but I am appalled by how "Mike" treated you, and I'm surprised that no one from their organization has attempted to chime in on this thread. Count me in as someone that will never buy their products.

 

[maddnotez]

So who else has Keisel here?

I have like I said seen a few of you guys rave about them but a common description I see online is "thin and lifeless" I have personally never played one. Have been curious but also have been turned off by that description above.

They can look great and for a custom the price seems great but for me at the end of the day, how does it play and how does it sound?

My first one, which is the one I still have, plays, sounds, and feels great. It has great resonance and sustain and isn't lifeless at all. I did swap out the pickups, but the guitar itself isn't a dud. I got in in 2012 so who knows about current quality. But, objectively, it's actually one of the best guitars I've had.

Yep, I've probably said this two or three times in this thread alone, I love my 2013 Carvin ST300c. Its a phenomenal sounding guitar and plays great. It to had issues when I got it, but I accepted the issues, fixed it myself, and moved on. Wasn't nearly as big an issue as this recent one however.

So I guess just poor QC and people like to talk more online about the bad?

Idk, I have seen some that look killer but for that kind of cash I would expect flawless and good service.

 

[NinjaRaf]

That's ridiculous. There was another guy NinjaRaf who had a Kiesel last year that looked like a similar bridge and similar issue. I think you were on the right track with a neck shim and/or taller hipshot. This could have & should have been fixed and pretty easy if you are a guitar tech.

I ordered a Multiscale with a different bridge and it came out super nice....but I'm seeing too many stories that look like this issue is not unique.
If you see your guitar on the in stock inventory page update this thread, lol! I want to see more of it.

Oh Hai!!

I ordered a couple of Kiesels in 2015. SCB6 and DC600. Both pretty similar overall in terms of what I wanted aesthetically, and man did they come out incredible in that sense. But they were both plagued with basically unfixable problems.

Problem 1...both guitars had similar issues to yours with the bridge, but not as extreme. The heights on yours are just insane. Mine were really high, and didn't really have room for adjustment, but I don't remember them being quite that high (though, we are talking a year or so ago when my DC600 went away).

Problem 2...I wanted to replace the pickups in my DC600 with some Dimarzio Dominions. Get the bridge installed perfectly fine. Go to install the neck, and I am adjusting pickup height, and I feel a pinch on my leg...flip the guitar over...screws went through the fucking body. Pull them out...turns out, they use different length of screw for the neck and bridge pickup mounting. The neck pup screws are about .25" longer than the bridge. Why. The. Fuck. Would you do this. Who the fuck thinks to check SCREW LENGTH OF MOUNTING SCREWS when changing pickups. There are many reason these things are fucking standardized. This, for some reason, pissed me off more than anything else because...it just doesn't make any fucking sense.

Problem 3...and really the biggest problem...both guitars sounded very lifeless and dead. I also have an LTD MH400 and an LTD H400. These 2 guitars were $350 each. Both combined cost half of what one of my Kiesels cost. Both LTDs play and sound a million times better than either of my Kiesels. This, to me, is just fucking stupid.

In any case...I ended up trading my SCB6 for my Gibson Gothic V, and I traded my DC600 to a friend locally for an AR15 300 blackout pistol build lol.

The screw thing really sealed the deal for me and no more Kiesel. Sorry, but its just fucking stupid and makes no sense. Your guitar bodies are flat, and there is no neck angle on neck throughs...which means there is literally no reason to have different length screws. When I talked to them...they denied that they used different length screws and then blamed me lol. I sent them a picture of the 2 screws next to each other, and they didn't respond to it. Then they offered to fix it if I paid shipping to and from. This guitar was less than a month old at that point. So sorry that you guys are too retarded to use same length screws, I am not dealing with this crap.

Kiesel has a lot of potential. A semi-custom shop that lets you spec out nearly every fucking detail of your guitar is SUCH a great idea. But their execution needs a lot of work. Customer service needs a lot of work. And apparently, logic, too haha.

I still have your old SCB6! I actually love it!

The saddles do have some angle to them, but not near as drastic as this thread. The SCB6 has standard fret-wire. I have noticed that it seems like Hipshot+Jumbo frets seem to be the biggest culprit for this problem to be majorly dramatic.

I did change the pickups to Duncan Black Winters. I researched a long time, and eventually used completely different screws based on your issues. I agree that what they used was just stupid. I think it is stupid overall that they use threaded inserts for the back cover, but not the pickups. Even my MIK Schecter has threaded inserts for pickups.

It is still not huge, chunky, and resonant like a Les Paul, but the Duncans helped a lot. I love it for tight technical playing like Death-Symbolic, Lamb of God, etc... I still think the maple neckthrough has a lot to do with the sound.

I still want to order another Kiesel, but definitely worried after so many problems lately. There definitely seems to be many "rules", like no Option 50's, dont do Hipshot+Jumbo frets, no maple neckthrough, etc.... Sadly, there aren't many choices out there for 25" scale, which I am loving. Basically just Kiesel and PRS. I am also considering a PRS SE Custom 24.

HA! Nice! Glad its working out for you. I loved how that thing looked. Really nice. Glad you researched the pickup screw thing. I agree...why not use threaded inserts in the pickups, too.

I am still rocking the shit out of the Gothic V haha. Loved it so much that I bought a second one...which is now for sale because I'm an idiot and don't need 2 haha. But yeah...still my favorite guitar that I have owned.

 

[Holy-diver]

That's ridiculous. There was another guy NinjaRaf who had a Kiesel last year that looked like a similar bridge and similar issue. I think you were on the right track with a neck shim and/or taller hipshot. This could have & should have been fixed and pretty easy if you are a guitar tech.

I ordered a Multiscale with a different bridge and it came out super nice....but I'm seeing too many stories that look like this issue is not unique.
If you see your guitar on the in stock inventory page update this thread, lol! I want to see more of it.

Oh Hai!!

I ordered a couple of Kiesels in 2015. SCB6 and DC600. Both pretty similar overall in terms of what I wanted aesthetically, and man did they come out incredible in that sense. But they were both plagued with basically unfixable problems.

Problem 1...both guitars had similar issues to yours with the bridge, but not as extreme. The heights on yours are just insane. Mine were really high, and didn't really have room for adjustment, but I don't remember them being quite that high (though, we are talking a year or so ago when my DC600 went away).

Problem 2...I wanted to replace the pickups in my DC600 with some Dimarzio Dominions. Get the bridge installed perfectly fine. Go to install the neck, and I am adjusting pickup height, and I feel a pinch on my leg...flip the guitar over...screws went through the fucking body. Pull them out...turns out, they use different length of screw for the neck and bridge pickup mounting. The neck pup screws are about .25" longer than the bridge. Why. The. Fuck. Would you do this. Who the fuck thinks to check SCREW LENGTH OF MOUNTING SCREWS when changing pickups. There are many reason these things are fucking standardized. This, for some reason, pissed me off more than anything else because...it just doesn't make any fucking sense.

Problem 3...and really the biggest problem...both guitars sounded very lifeless and dead. I also have an LTD MH400 and an LTD H400. These 2 guitars were $350 each. Both combined cost half of what one of my Kiesels cost. Both LTDs play and sound a million times better than either of my Kiesels. This, to me, is just fucking stupid.

In any case...I ended up trading my SCB6 for my Gibson Gothic V, and I traded my DC600 to a friend locally for an AR15 300 blackout pistol build lol.

The screw thing really sealed the deal for me and no more Kiesel. Sorry, but its just fucking stupid and makes no sense. Your guitar bodies are flat, and there is no neck angle on neck throughs...which means there is literally no reason to have different length screws. When I talked to them...they denied that they used different length screws and then blamed me lol. I sent them a picture of the 2 screws next to each other, and they didn't respond to it. Then they offered to fix it if I paid shipping to and from. This guitar was less than a month old at that point. So sorry that you guys are too retarded to use same length screws, I am not dealing with this crap.

Kiesel has a lot of potential. A semi-custom shop that lets you spec out nearly every fucking detail of your guitar is SUCH a great idea. But their execution needs a lot of work. Customer service needs a lot of work. And apparently, logic, too haha.

I still have your old SCB6! I actually love it!

The saddles do have some angle to them, but not near as drastic as this thread. The SCB6 has standard fret-wire. I have noticed that it seems like Hipshot+Jumbo frets seem to be the biggest culprit for this problem to be majorly dramatic.

I did change the pickups to Duncan Black Winters. I researched a long time, and eventually used completely different screws based on your issues. I agree that what they used was just stupid. I think it is stupid overall that they use threaded inserts for the back cover, but not the pickups. Even my MIK Schecter has threaded inserts for pickups.

It is still not huge, chunky, and resonant like a Les Paul, but the Duncans helped a lot. I love it for tight technical playing like Death-Symbolic, Lamb of God, etc... I still think the maple neckthrough has a lot to do with the sound.

I still want to order another Kiesel, but definitely worried after so many problems lately. There definitely seems to be many "rules", like no Option 50's, dont do Hipshot+Jumbo frets, no maple neckthrough, etc.... Sadly, there aren't many choices out there for 25" scale, which I am loving. Basically just Kiesel and PRS. I am also considering a PRS SE Custom 24.

get a used PRS core model, it will be 10000x better instrument than a kiesel