Less than 24 hour & I may be regretting my amp purchase

MadAsAHatter

Well-known member
So I picked up a Line 6 DT25 and it arrived yesterday evening. First, I do have to say in the 10 min or so I was able to play it sounded fairly good. BUT here is where my regrets are creeping in. When getting a new used amp I generally take it to the shop for a look over, replace tubes if they’re worn, etc. Currently there are Mullard power tubes in it. In anticipating them needing replacement I started looking up what tubes sounded good in the amp. And this is where I stumbled into the proverbial can of worms…

I have not seen this mentioned anywhere else other than the Line 6 boards by a single Line 6 amp tech when people ask about which tubes. According to him, apparently if you do not exclusively use Electro-Harmonix medium tubes with specific tolerances as soon as you turn on the amp you’ll summon a high level demon from the 7th circle of hell. Said demon will then go forth and murder all your pets, rape your spouse, curse your descendants, diarrhea shit in the water supply, burn the local orphanage, add pineapple to every pizza in existence, anoint your most hated political figure as world leader, basically destroy the world as we know it, and finish it off by feasting on a peanut butter and your soul sandwich. All you can do after that is cry in pain and terror as you trek your way across danger ridden jungles and barren wasteland deserts battling hordes or rabid marmosets every step of the way for months on end until you make it to a Line 6 authorized service center to drop off the amp for repair. The tech will them perform ancient incantations to banish the demon back to the bowels of hell and restore order to the living world while bitching the whole time about another amp on their table that used the wrong tubes.

In all seriousness though… The only place I’ve seen specific brand and spec tubes (EHX – medium) being required was on the Line 6 boards by only this one Line 6 amp tech. His explanations of why this is necessary are rather vague of the digital and analog parts need to communicate properly or “bad stuff” will happen. Even as recently as last month this guy has given the same vague explanation of “bad things will happen, trust me”. You would think something this important that could cause catastrophic amp failure would be mentioned somewhere else, printed in big bold words at the top of the manual, and plastered all over the product pages. And is it really expected that tubes will be at the exact narrow specifications from batch to batch; let alone over the course of 10+ years. And if an amp can’t take the minor fluctuations of specs from different manufacturers what does that truly say about the amp. I get that part of the amp was designed by Reinhold Bogner and he has high expectations, but I never heard of one of his company’s amps melting down because you put in a pair of GT instead of EHX tubes.

All of that said, the amp does sound quite nice and currently has Mullard power tubes in it. Being used I’m assuming the Mullards weren’t installed yesterday and have been in use for a bit. So did I just buy a crap quality amp that I have to agonize over putting in very specific tubes so it doesn’t die? Or is all of this stuff from the Line 6 DT forum a bunch of hogwash trying to scare people who don’t know better into buying certain product?
 
The Mullards are built in same factory as EHX and look pretty much identical internally.

And pineapple on pizza is a total 7th circle demon move. They'll do all that other stuff but none of the other demons punch that low.
 
The Mullards are built in same factory as EHX and look pretty much identical internally.
Funny thing is that was brought up that many branded tubes come from the same factory with similar specs. Mullard, EHX, Sovtek, Tug-Sol, Svetlana, etc. all from the same factory.
The response from the Line 6 tech and probably the most in depth answer he's given to anyone was
"Rheinhold designed the tube amp section, Line 6 has it's digital processor board in it. The characteristic curves of the tubes have to be spot on, because the analog side and the digital side have to talk nice to one another, or bad things happen. EH and Sovtek are owned by the same entity, the EH version is a premium version that goes through extra scrutiny, and so the characteristics curves are consistent. Variations between manufacturers or versions within same manufacturer can create inconsistencies."

With answers like that I really have no idea if different tubes are a real concern of if this is just some sort of marketing BS trying to be passed as technical advice.
 
I doubt anything would blow up or anything like that.

I reckon the pairing would be "required" in order to make sure the marriage of the digital and analogue sides result in the intended sounds and their proper behaviour.

An analogy might be whacking a Kemper through a bunch of different tube power amps. Each would colour the sound differently, which might be great for some Profiles but not others. Ultimately the intention of Kemper is to model all that tube stuff internally, so as one might expect, the company recommends as transparent a power amp (preferably Class D) as possible.
 
I call BS too. I could see if it was bias thing but I can't for the life of me find any reason why a tube brand over another brand would be better or worse (outside of quality of materials/production of course). I have a Peavy Vypyr Tube 60 (similar type amp) and I've thrown all kinds of stuff in there.
 
As long as it's the right tube type (EL34) and the tube is biased within the expected range that the amp wants to see, I can't imagine anything going wrong.
Seems silly at best, this EH recommendation...
 
OP...in a thread you started about "regretting an amp purchase", you then lost all credibility/sympathy when admitting that amp is a Line 6:loco: :doh: :bash:
 
The responses so far have made me feel better. I was having a hard time wrapping my head around why anything other than specific EHX would damage the amp like the guy was saying. Considering it wasn't in a bulletin or manual or brought up anywhere else I couldn't imagine it was truly a problem. Maybe at worst the EHX tubes were used in testing so circuitry was optimized to work with them, where other brands would be fine just not fully optimized. But since the Line 6 guy had been spouting the same thing of only use EHX (with no real explanation the whole time) since 2015 it caused me to doubt my instincts. I have a Vyper tube 60 like splawndude and have swapped tubes with no issues. Maybe since he's a Line 6 employee he's forced to say that for legal reasons?

OP...in a thread you started about "regretting an amp purchase", you then lost all credibility/sympathy when admitting that amp is a Line 6:loco: :doh: :bash:
Yeah, I know.... Line 6. I don't hold them in very high regards. BUT I wasn't after the Line 6 modeling part of this amp, that's extra if it sounds decent enough. The Bogner power amp side it what I got it for. It was designed as an all analog tube power section that you can physically switch between Class A or A/B, pentode/triode and several different topologies. I'm wanting to run some Synergy Modules through the power section.
From clips I've heard of the modules, they all sound good and pretty close to the amps they were designed after. My though process is instead of using a one size fits all power amp with the modules, use the power section on the Line 6 setting it to match the module being used. Say I'm using the Friedman DS module... I'd set the power amp to resemble the power section on a Dirty Shirley. As close as the DS module sounds to the real thing this might get it even closer and maybe make it feel more like a Dirty Shirley. On the flip of that I could set the power section to a more VOX or MESA like topology and maybe get some different/unique sounds out of that.
Honestly if Synergy made a power amp that you could select topologies to match the modules I'd snap one up in a second. Maybe something is in the works that we don't know about yet. But for now the Line 6 seems to be the best (I think only) option to try this theory out.
 
If you bought the D25 thinking you are getting a "Bogner" power section...it's just not going to work that way in reality. You would be better off getting another quality power amp and going that route and make your life a lot less complicated.
 
I know it's a designed by/licensed Bogner and not an actual Bogner so I'm not expecting that. I'm wanting to see how that whole topology switching thing will work with Synergy modules. It may be great, it may be crap, it may be too much of a hassle for my own good. It's something I'm curious about and I'll never know unless I try.
 
Congrats on the killer new amp and don’t worry about one persons opinion that goes against logic. Play the thing and enjoy it like it’s meant :rock:
 
I'm pretty sure Thrice was using these amps (or the DT50 I think) when I saw them live years ago and they sounded amazing
 
I'll take back my initial reaction of regretting getting the DT25. Thankfully you all have helped relieved that worry about the amp melting down by calling BS on what that Line 6 tech has been spouting over on the other forum.

So I had the SYN 2 and Powerball module waiting for me when I got home this evening. It took me a bit to hook it to the DT, my dumb ass had the FX cables backwards & didn't notice it. But I did get to play a for about 30 min just now. Nothing is dialed in by any means, but switching through the 4 stock topologies on the DT not changing anything else you can really hear how much difference the power amp makes in the overall sound. One topology brightened it up, one had a good bit less breakup than the rest, one was more mid focused and the 4th thickened up the bass response. The initial test makes this experiment fairly promising. Once I get a few more modules & can spend some significant time with everything I'll make a new thread about my experience.
 
... switching through the 4 stock topologies on the DT not changing anything else you can really hear how much difference the power amp makes in the overall sound.
That's exactly what I was sayin' bro'.

The L6 recommendation IMHO was based purely on achieving the desired sounds and responses of the various interactions / combinations.

It would have been good if he'd simply pointed this out rather than predict doom and gloom if you didn't use the specified tubes.
 
I'm pretty sure Thrice was using these amps (or the DT50 I think) when I saw them live years ago and they sounded amazing
I think I saw (prepare to die laughing) Stryper using DT50 stacks maybe a decade ago, and was really surprised on how good it sounded for 80's rock/metal.
 
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