LET'S DISCUSS: Les Paul Volume Pots

[rlord1974]

I have primarily been a Strat and Gretsch player for many years, but have just joined a new band that I plan to use Les Pauls with. However, I have been finding it difficult to use the volume pots on my Les Pauls to "clean up" the signal to get cleaner tones out of the guitar. Specifically, I have to dial the volume pot back to '2' to get a reasonably clean signal, and end up losing a LOT of high end sparkle in the process. This simply won't do. With my Strats, if I dial the volume back to around '5', I'm largely clean at that point and still retain a decent amount of high end (i.e., the tone doesn't become muddy).

It would seem most of you fine gentlemen either leave the stock Gibson 300k volume pots, or modify them to 500k. My Les Pauls currently have the 300k pots on them. I am trying to find a way to have my Les Pauls clean up in a manner similar to my Strats - that is, by around '5' on the dial, the signal to the amp has been attenuated enough to produce a clean tone. The 'fix' I'm searching for also needs to retain a little more high end as I roll down the volume (if possible).

Does anybody have any suggestions as to what mods I can do to my Les Pauls to achieve the desired result? I would prefer to hear some suggestions and feedback before breaking out the bank card and iron......

Thanks, folks.

 

[rlord1974]

Treble bleed?

This might solve the "muddiness" when I turn down, but it won't 'clean up' the tone/dirt sooner, will it?

 

[barnesjd]

I recommend modding the songs to not have clean tones.



My solution to cleaner tones is to dial back the neck pup volume to where it is clean, and then just toggle between the two. However, since my attitude towards clean tones kinda sucks anyway, I'm not real particular about how good it sounds.

 

[rlord1974]

No, I need good cleans for this band. And it's not even so much about 'cleans', as I can get crystal cleans by changing the channel on my amp. It is more about getting good 'edge of breakup' and mid-gain tones by rolling back the volume. Right now, I have to roll it WAY too far back to get these tones, and the tone becomes muddy in the process.

 

[barnesjd]

Gotcha. You still want some bite in there. By the time you roll back the volume far enough to reach it, you're already a measure behind the rest of the band!

 

[Badronald]

Nature of the beast due to wood type and inherent characteristics of the Les Paul and humbucker pickups.
I love the core Les Paul tone but what you have mentioned is the main reason why I can't get on with them.
I need a Stratocaster.

 

[Scumback Speakers]

There are three options available that I know of. (I have 12 Les Pauls, 1 more coming, been dealing with this for years).

1) Treble bleed circuit with cap in the wiring between your volume and tone pot. Cleans up well by 7, however it can get a little "too clean" and crystal sharp on the treble with reduced fatness in the bass. You have to experiment with the values to find what works for you at stage volumes.
Here's a pot that's made with the treble bleed circuit in it that's adjustable. Haven't tried it myself, but this might be cool if you can dial in the amount of treble you need when turning down, and it's a CTS 500k pot, too.
http://www.guitarelectronics.com/c=9Qda ... rcuit.html

2) 50's wiring with CTS 500k pots and the correct values for pots. I prefer .015 in the neck cap, .033 in the bridge cap. If your LP is post 1963 you have "modern" wiring most likely, which gets muddy and takes a long turn of the volume pot to get clean (like 2-3). I use 50's wiring in all of my LP's.

3) Your pickups are too hot, or your OD/Boost/gain is set so high it can't clean up quickly enough. I experience this with my Komet 60 clone plugging straight in (no fx/boosts of any kind). My pickups are no hotter than 10k in the bridge, 8k in the neck.

I love the FAST mode for solos, but it won't clean up before 2-3. If I switch to the GRADUAL mode, it's similar to a ballsy Plexi sound and cleans up by 6 on the volume knob of the guitar. Same thing for my 50/100w Marshall type amps. But then you need an OD / Boost pedal for solos.

Hopefully some of this helps.

Jim

 

[Steinmetzify]

Jim speaks the truth.....I've got a braided 50s wiring setup in my LP with 500k pots.....when I jam with friends, I usually ride volume/tone all night, but I CAN, if I have to, just use the neck on whatever I feel like and the flick to the bridge for solos, which is will be set all out on both knobs and act as a boost.....watched a vid a while back on how to control your LP better and I've been trying to do things like this.....mostly everything on the neck but the solos (except when I'm playing metal). I'd say the biggest thing you could change would be the pots to 500-550k...gonna make a big difference....my .02. Good luck.

 

[luther910]

I just recently changed out my electronics to RS guitarworks. It made a big difference. Now my LP both sound and clean up much better. I had originally thought of changing out the pick ups as well, but now I don't know, it sounds that good.

http://www.rsguitarworks.net/cms2/

 

[barnesjd]

(...) mostly everything on the neck but the solos (except when I'm playing metal). (...)

And when I'm playing metal (or well, just playing cuz that's about all I do), I'm exactly the opposite. Most everything on the bridge except some solos on the neck.

Wait, what are we talking about again?

 

[Anonymous]

Treble bleed?

This might solve the "muddiness" when I turn down, but it won't 'clean up' the tone/dirt sooner, will it?

absolutely. with the 300k pots, try a 300pf or 470 pf on the bridge, across the volume outer lug to the middle lug, and leave the existing tone caps as is in between the volume and tone pots.

i like 500pf on the neck.

i've experimented a ton with tone caps on a variable knob, but never got to doing it in the treble bleed position. i settled on 470 or 300 due that that being in my ibanezes, and kept it. 500 sounded a little better and clearer to me on my neck pickups.

 

[crankyrayhanky]

Do most of these ideas also apply to the modern SG?
300>500 pots
50s wiring

 

[Giga]

Disclaimer first: some amps don't clean up very well, some pups don't clean up very well, running your amp's gain too high doesn't help.

Having said that, here's what I've found: 300k may be too high allready. Pups have a tendency to become very trebly past a certain point (differs from pup to pup). Ideally you want to stay just below that point with the pot at 10. The 50's wiring Jim is referring to helps (a lot). Value of the tonepot has it's influence as does the actual cap (value and construction, I like bumblebees). The cable you're using has it's influence, using a buffer might help. Finding a pot with the right taper helps (I'm using Allessandro pots, they are ridiculously expensive but have the best taper for me, that is they roll of very steeply).

Good luck !

Giga

 

[Scumback Speakers]

Do most of these ideas also apply to the modern SG?
300>500 pots
50s wiring

Yes. I've done this to all of my SG's as well...9 and counting.

Ok, I admit it, I'm a Gibson whore, so what?

 

[crankyrayhanky]

Cool! I have a carved top SG that plays great but the pot taper is awful
I may grab some Riff Raffs & do a rewire based off your ideas
Thanks!

 

[FourT6and2]

50's wiring.
Lower output pickups.
500k RS Superpots.

Done.

 

[ibenhad]

I say get a volume pedal or wah/volume combo.

 

[blackba]

Does the 50s wiring offer a difference in tone if you always run all 4 knobs all the way up?

 

[FourT6and2]

Does the 50s wiring offer a difference in tone if you always run all 4 knobs all the way up?

I don't believe so.

I have two Les Pauls, one wired modern, one wired 50's. But they have different pickups so no way to tell, really.

 

[stratotone]

Could also be log vs audio taper pots. An audio pot will have a wider perceived sweep, log pots are more accurate resistance-wise but we 'hear' like the audio pots sweep. If that makes sense.

Since pots are relatively cheap, I'd buy a few and experiment a bit.