Looking For a 2 channel High Gainer

RJF

New member
Death by Uberschall":2wnnbt0h said:
RJF":2wnnbt0h said:
maddnotez":2wnnbt0h said:
Bxlxaxkxe":2wnnbt0h said:
I would prefer the rev.2 but that TJ might definitely be in my top 3 of amps.
A rev 2 over a TJ? Why? I thought the TJ was the shiznit of the Uber models. :yes:

Yes and no. The TJ is supposed to have the high gain channel of the Original/Rev2, but I think something was lost in translation. More than likely it's tweaks to the power section. The Orig/Rev2 have an organic 3D quality to them that was lost in the Blue Revision. The TJ didn't seem the recapture that magic. Play at Rev2 at moderate volume and you'll understand.

Hmmm. I would assume the other ubers don't have a boxy mid hump to them like a TJ with 34's right? I would assume they are designed around the EQ of a 34? Which the TJ to my ears was clearly NOT. :LOL: :LOL:
 

se7en

Active member
Idk, I've heard plenty of clips of the Rev. 2 and don't think it touches the Twin Jet for aggression and clarity. It's a more compressed and smoother tone to my ears.
 

JimmyBlind

Active member
I'd say the Diezel Lil Fokker ticks just about every requirement on the list. Plus, Diezels are designed & voiced for use with V30 speakers.
 

maddnotez

Well-known member
RJF":dtn6pilq said:
Death by Uberschall":dtn6pilq said:
RJF":dtn6pilq said:
maddnotez":dtn6pilq said:
Bxlxaxkxe":dtn6pilq said:
I would prefer the rev.2 but that TJ might definitely be in my top 3 of amps.
A rev 2 over a TJ? Why? I thought the TJ was the shiznit of the Uber models. :yes:

Yes and no. The TJ is supposed to have the high gain channel of the Original/Rev2, but I think something was lost in translation. More than likely it's tweaks to the power section. The Orig/Rev2 have an organic 3D quality to them that was lost in the Blue Revision. The TJ didn't seem the recapture that magic. Play at Rev2 at moderate volume and you'll understand.

Hmmm. I would assume the other ubers don't have a boxy mid hump to them like a TJ with 34's right? I would assume they are designed around the EQ of a 34? Which the TJ to my ears was clearly NOT. :LOL: :LOL:

Leib is the best candidate to explain the difference here. There is also a thread he made in the Bogner section highly detailing the differences between all of the revisions and this guy knows his Bogners.

I will try me best to explain my experience. I played both of his amps the Rev. 2 and the TJ. Both have the KT88/EL34 mod and the tubes make a HUGE difference IMO.

The Rev. 2 as stated was very organic, opened up and filled the room and has the most crushing brutal tone and was very dark sounding which I really liked.

The TJ may have been more middy, hard to recall because I highly favored the Rev.2 but I will say the TJ gave me some very brutal tone as well. The problem I had with the TJ was that I couldnt get what I wanted with active pickups while the Rev. 2 took both Active and passive very well.

I tried a stock TJ in the store before I met Leib and was thoroughly UNimpressed. Sounded like a slightly better Peavey and for the price tag I chuckled to myself and went to the next amp.

But once you get the right tubes, tweak it a bit (pretty sensitive amps imo) You can get a rediculous sound.

The TJ probably has a better clean channel than the Rev. 2 but that Dark crushing Organic sound I got from the Rev. 2 can not be beat in my book.
 
Uberschall differences

This is the basic rundown of the Uberschalls:

Original - Fast gain taper on Gain Channel (some have said almost like an Off/On kind of jump in gain), high plate voltage, good power section compression/sag when pushed, Clean Channel volume slightly lower than Gain Channel by comparison, plastic carry handle (although some Original Uberschalls got the leather handle just prior to transitioning into the Rev2), EL34

Rev2 - Reduced gain taper on Gain Channel (same gain, just more controllable), high plate voltage, good power section compression/sag when pushed, Clean Channel volume slightly lower than Gain Channel by comparison, leather carry handle, EL34

Revision Blue - Same basic gain structure, lower plate voltage, less power section compression/sag when pushed, Clean Channel volume matched closer to Gain Channel, re-design of circuits, addition of Loop volume control, bias test points, power jewel changed to smaller LED type, dedicated design ability to allow power section slaving from an outside source (but this can be accomplished on Original/Rev2 versions), EL34

Twin Jet 1.0 - Gain Channel re-design in a direction towards the Original/Rev2 designs, plate voltage around 530v, less power section compression (due to the design switch to KT88 power tubes), Clean channel re-do in the direction of a high gain modded Marshall tone with very little ability to get a truly clean sound, addition of power section Presence and Depth controls, KT88

Twin Jet 1.1 - The same as 1.0 but with a modded gain taper on the clean channel, same level of gain available as 1.0 with the ability to go lower gain and clean up better
Twin Jet Purple mod – Clean channel becomes more “Marshall” like and the addition of the purple power LED.

Now keep in mind, I made up TJ 1.0/1.1 for the purpose of comparison , I don't think Bogner looks at them that way. Bogner does offer to perform the Clean Channel mod for anybody who owns what I call 1.0 at no charge.


These are the main differences I know about. I don't know specific component values between the different versions from a design stand point, but I can say my descriptions above, for the most part, are right on the money by way of research, comparisons and the general consensus from those who have had time with them. The volume difference between the Clean Channel and Gain Channel on the Original and Rev2 seem to be exaggerated. Yes there is a difference, but nothing that can't be fixed by just turning the Clean Channel Volume control up a little more than the Gain Channel volume control. Another words, adjust the amp with your ears, not your eyes.

:D
 

se7en

Active member
Twin Jet took a little while for the KT88's to break in I'll admit. But, after that I preferred it big time over the Rev. Blue, plus the 1st channel gets some great JCM800 tones. It is more dynamic, with more clarity and string separation than previous Ubers.
 

Bxlxaxkxe

Active member
se7en":19shoace said:
Twin Jet took a little while for the KT88's to break in I'll admit. But, after that I preferred it big time over the Rev. Blue, plus the 1st channel gets some great JCM800 tones. It is more dynamic, with more clarity and string separation than previous Ubers.


That's definitely the tempting thing about the twin jet...too very different types of gain channels. I'm definitely leaning towards the TJ. Will probably change my mind 30 times before it's all said and done.

Wish more folks had the Lil Fokker. Interested in the reviews and will be watching as they come in.
 

RJF

New member
Ch1 of the TJ is not my thing, too much mids and too marshall like, but I could see someone liking it that likes a more classic sound. For me, Ch2, slightly scooped, is where it's at.
 

leib10

Active member
Looks like I'm late to the Uber party!

If you're deciding between the Rev 2 and Twin Jet, let me say this up front. Both are outstanding amps. It's hard to have almost $4000 tied up in two boxes sitting on a speaker cab, especially in my financial situation. I've tried to justify selling one or the other, but I just can't bring myself to because they are two very unique and different amps.

I'll say this: there is very little real overlap with these amps. The second channel is not the same on them. The Rev 2's is more compressed, saggy, saturated, and midrangey because of the EL34s, which lends it more to hard rock and big chugging metal riffs. I also find it less forgiving and more difficult to play. The Twin Jet's is more modern, aggressive, scooped, tighter, and dryer. It is an easier amp to play and is more responsive and with better note separation. I prefer it for more articulate, faster metal riffs.

The 1st channel of the Rev 2 is pretty underrated IMO. You're not getting Fender cleans out of it, but it works well enough for an amp whose main attraction is elsewhere. The Twin Jet's first channel gives nice, shimmering cleans at low gain, all the way to straight JCM800 tones. It actually reminded me and another forumite of the Rev 2's gain channel in a way. Don't listen to the people who tell you that you can't get clean tones at high volume out of it; they are wrong. It is a very versatile channel. The Twin Jet also has external bias points and pot and the FX loop volume control, as well as the power section controls that really allow you to tweak the low end and upper midrange.

My honest opinion? If you're only going to have one, get the Twin Jet. It is more versatile and user-friendly. It's hard for me to say that because the Rev 2 has my favorite distorted tone of all time. I wish Bogner had really taken the Rev 2 and added external bias points and the power section controls, but they didn't. As a result, the Twin Jet is your best bet.
 

JerEvil

Well-known member
Paul&MillsAmps":143s4s43 said:
Hey check out the PMA2100 by Paul & 'Mills amps.
Im on my phone and it wont let me pull up te full editor
But feel free to pm us for details pictures and videos.
The 2100 is a 100 watt 2 channel amp with a gain boost
Its vicious. And they go for under a grand, for an american handmade amp.
Wow! Just checked out some youtube clips. Sounds really nice for well under $1k.
 
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