Mark IIB+ vs IIC+ vs GEQ off vs ON.

[GJgo]

Did this today. I was talking to Racerxrated about how I think the B has a little more mid hump than the C does. Then by the time you get to the IV that mid hump is really pulled back. I can tell you that with the GEQ off these amps EAT THE BAND MIX and sound killer. Which sound works the best for you?

https://youtu.be/sMgacLAvm_o

 

[Speeddemon]

Did this today. I was talking to Racerxrated about how I think the B has a little more mid hump than the C does. Then by the time you get to the IV that mid hump is really pulled back. I can tell you that with the GEQ off these amps EAT THE BAND MIX and sound killer. Which sound works the best for you?

https://youtu.be/sMgacLAvm_o

I'm listening on a good set of cans (Beyer DT990) and your video to me at least shows actually the opposite; the B sounds a tad bit heftier in the lows/low-mids, both with and without EQ. It's the C that seems to have more (high)mids.
The base tone of the B without EQ sounds good, albeit a tad thin (lack of lows), but with the V EQ enabled, it's a bit too strident in the highs for me. The C seems to sound ever so slightly 'sweeter' in the highs and high-mids (but still thinner in the lows), but something you can probably normalize with a bit less presence on the B, and maybe turn up the mid (pot) 1 step.

 

[Racerxrated]

Did this today. I was talking to Racerxrated about how I think the B has a little more mid hump than the C does. Then by the time you get to the IV that mid hump is really pulled back. I can tell you that with the GEQ off these amps EAT THE BAND MIX and sound killer. Which sound works the best for you?

https://youtu.be/sMgacLAvm_o

There's a big difference between playing for yourself at home, and then with a band...yes it's obvious but even when I thought I had really good mids set up on my rig, I'd get to the club and at a quick soundcheck realize that I need to bump the mids up quite a bit. Whenever I've first gotten a Mark I always just try it with the EQ off, but quickly turn it back on since it's just WAY to mid honky to my ears.

Jeremy, your S C+ seems to have an inherent higher mid frequency going for it that doesn't jive with my experience with any Mark I've played. So in this case your amp is a bit of an anomaly. Most are WAY more lower mid HONK focused. Which I don't care for at all...EQ on for me.
Your amp sounds really good though without the EQ.

 

[GJgo]

The extra mid-lows from the B likely comes from the extra 4 power tubes- it has WAY more balls. But, Bs were known for having more bottom end. I guess I was referring to the upper mids. When playing these in my band the B is huge & thick, where the C has a great tone but it totally overpowers the mix. My vocals almost go away. I had the pots set more or less the same here & I agree with some tweaking it could be normalized better. When I've done this, as well as slaving the power section to normalize that, the main difference between the tone of the two amps comes down to that upper mid presence.

Note I did not pull deep in this vid.

Slaving power section-
https://youtu.be/cQjjAtewUzQ

In the band mix-
https://youtu.be/gvy4BroOqMM

Racer, I agree the SR has more upper mids than your average Mark. And no honk. That said, compare it to this factory IIC+ DR I used to have. Maybe there's just something to Doug West's NO-EQ ideas. IMO they have better tone, presence & sustain all else equal than GEQ models. I know a couple guys with IIB 60 watters that do this too. One of them is loop modded and it crushes!
https://youtu.be/G6zI-fVggTo?t=291

 

[Exo-metal]

Did this today. I was talking to Racerxrated about how I think the B has a little more mid hump than the C does. Then by the time you get to the IV that mid hump is really pulled back. I can tell you that with the GEQ off these amps EAT THE BAND MIX and sound killer. Which sound works the best for you?

https://youtu.be/sMgacLAvm_o

I'm listening on a good set of cans (Beyer DT990) and your video to me at least shows actually the opposite; the B sounds a tad bit heftier in the lows/low-mids, both with and without EQ. It's the C that seems to have more (high)mids.
The base tone of the B without EQ sounds good, albeit a tad thin (lack of lows), but with the V EQ enabled, it's a bit too strident in the highs for me. The C seems to sound ever so slightly 'sweeter' in the highs and high-mids (but still thinner in the lows), but something you can probably normalize with a bit less presence on the B, and maybe turn up the mid (pot) 1 step.

I'm hearing it this way too. Cool vids but the difference is comparing apples to oranges. That 60 may as racer stated be an anomaly to most C+ but imo would benefit from a GEQ and not one placed in the loop as you're already aware of the difference. Great post as always j

 

[Racerxrated]

The extra mid-lows from the B likely comes from the extra 4 power tubes- it has WAY more balls. But, Bs were known for having more bottom end. I guess I was referring to the upper mids. When playing these in my band the B is huge & thick, where the C has a great tone but it totally overpowers the mix. My vocals almost go away. I had the pots set more or less the same here & I agree with some tweaking it could be normalized better. When I've done this, as well as slaving the power section to normalize that, the main difference between the tone of the two amps comes down to that upper mid presence.

Note I did not pull deep in this vid.

Slaving power section-
https://youtu.be/cQjjAtewUzQ

In the band mix-
https://youtu.be/gvy4BroOqMM

Racer, I agree the SR has more upper mids than your average Mark. And no honk. That said, compare it to this factory IIC+ DR I used to have. Maybe there's just something to Doug West's NO-EQ ideas. IMO they have better tone, presence & sustain all else equal than GEQ models. I know a couple guys with IIB 60 watters that do this too. One of them is loop modded and it crushes!
https://youtu.be/G6zI-fVggTo?t=291

I won't agree on the premise that the no EQ Marks have a better tone. I've had one, and the only benefit is the fast response which contributes to the sustain...but that's it. That amp could not have that mid honk dialed out. No EQ in the loop worked either....
I'd much rather have the slight lag in the response and a bit less sustain..EQ all the way for me.
No question.

 

[Exo-metal]

Good point as well and to that point the lack of X can be resolved with the ++ mod.

 

[GJgo]

When I sent this SR in to Mike for service I wrote him a check for the ++ mod, but he talked me out of it because of the lack of GEQ. I trust him so I went with it. Anyway.. I just did my taxes and it's time to sell some gear. LOL

 

[Exo-metal]

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