market question for Mk II C/C+ folks

[BackCrack]

I know what original C+'s are currently worth/selling for, but what about C's that were converted my Mike B. to C+'s? Same? A little less?

...asking for a friend in the midwest that has a Mike B. converted-C combo in clean shape that needs a value for insurance purposes.

 

[EXPcustom]

Real deal C+ or C++ fully loaded and long head are going for 5k plus no problem.

Converted C to C+ or C++ with one or two options missing can be had for 2-4k. Me personally I only want the fully loaded original ones, the upgraded stuff just doesnt sound the same to me.

 

[Racerxrated]

I sold an upgraded SRC C+ earlier this year for 2500, combo. I just picked up a C++ HRG head, new headshell for 3K with nos Mesa Sylvania 6L6. At the same time I was looking at an original DRG long head on eBay that sold for 3600. As far as my experience with original v upgrade, when I had my SRG upgrade I also nabbed an original HRG, A/Bd them for 2wks and sold the original. Liked the upgrade better. Most C+ users will tell you there is no difference, only the inherent difference between any 2 amps.

 

[psychodave]

Real deal C+ or C++ fully loaded and long head are going for 5k plus no problem.

Converted C to C+ or C++ with one or two options missing can be had for 2-4k. Me personally I only want the fully loaded original ones, the upgraded stuff just doesnt sound the same to me.

I agree the real deal fetch higher money. The upgraded amps still get $2500-$3500 depending on condition.

The upgraded stuff is exactly the same as the factory 2C+. I believe the only differences are transformers. Most of the factory 2C+ amps have the 105 or export transformer. Having owned a factory 2C+ with 105 (simul) which was also upgraded to ++, upgraded 2C to + with the export transformer (simul) and an upgraded 2C to 2C++ with 100 transformer (non simul), I kept the 100 transformer without simul. It was bigger sounding and way more aggressive sounding than the others...by a lot. I found the 105 simul to be too smooth and a little mushy sounding vs the 100 as well. FWIW, I owned all of these amps at the same time.

Note that I used NOS Sylvania power tubes (both 415 and 416) in all amps with NOS Chinese 8th generation tubes. All tubes were tested, but since each transformer puts out is own plate voltage, there will be some variance in bias.

 

[GJgo]

Ok then guys, can you tell the difference with mine? One is "original" and one is an "upgraded C".

https://youtu.be/58T1NnVjmFI

All C+ were just Cs that Mike B. upgraded, the only question is when.

I think there's a sound difference between Simul-Class & HRG, maybe even a difference between the feel of the different transformers, but I think there's as much difference in tubes and just amp-to-amp. Mike says when he's done with them they all sound the same.

I do think my Simul can get into the sweet spot at a lower volume than the HRG, which makes sense.

 

[glip22]

Ok then guys, can you tell the difference with mine? One is "original" and one is an "upgraded C".

https://youtu.be/58T1NnVjmFI

All C+ were just Cs that Mike B. upgraded, the only question is when.

I think there's a sound difference between Simul-Class & HRG, maybe even a difference between the feel of the different transformers, but I think there's as much difference in tubes and just amp-to-amp. Mike says when he's done with them they all sound the same.

I do think my Simul can get into the sweet spot at a lower volume than the HRG, which makes sense.

Just an FYI, Mike didn't do all or any of the upgrade option C's. He keeps a record of the C's he mods into C+'s but not the earlier C's that were sent back on the recall option where they would make a C a C+ with the C+ boards by swapping boards. The ones Mike did are modded boards, not the original RP11 C+boards.
However some later C's had the RP 11 or 11A boards. The earlier C's had the RP10 boards. It may have been just a matter of changing the C board components though making it a +. I am not sure of the circuit differences.
Some factory C's had the 100 PT because Mesa found some, so they used them. Same with the early Mark III's black dot getting a 105PT.
Mike seemed prefer the 100 PT when we spoke. . Quoted me " Some guys like that chewier, sweeter tone of the 100"

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

Real deal C+ or C++ fully loaded and long head are going for 5k plus no problem.

Converted C to C+ or C++ with one or two options missing can be had for 2-4k. Me personally I only want the fully loaded original ones, the upgraded stuff just doesnt sound the same to me.

On what planet and in what dimension?

$5K for a IIC+... no. Not even a factory C++.

2 just sold in the Classifieds Section this week... 1 for $2800 and another for $3000. I passed on another for $2600 a few weeks back.

Sounds like someone is trying to pump up prices instead of living in reality.

 

[braintheory]

Real deal C+ or C++ fully loaded and long head are going for 5k plus no problem.

Converted C to C+ or C++ with one or two options missing can be had for 2-4k. Me personally I only want the fully loaded original ones, the upgraded stuff just doesnt sound the same to me.

On what planet and in what dimension?

$5K for a IIC+... no. Not even a factory C++.

2 just sold in the Classifieds Section this week... 1 for $2800 and another for $3000. I passed on another for $2600 a few weeks back.

Sounds like someone is trying to pump up prices instead of living in reality.

Yeah I was thinking that too. I bought a factory c+ HRG from guitar center used for $1900 about 4 years ago, bought another factory c+ for $2600 and sold it for $2500. Some guys do ask super high prices (not sure if they actually sell for that), but if you loook around you can eventually find them for reasonable prices

The one that sold for $2800 though was upgraded from a iic, so it fits in with psychodave saying upgraded ones sell between 2500-3500. I didn't see the one for $3000

To be fair though, I think there were only around 10 factory c++'s (most were upgraded from either a c or c+), so those could go for a lot with the rarity factor

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

Real deal C+ or C++ fully loaded and long head are going for 5k plus no problem.

Converted C to C+ or C++ with one or two options missing can be had for 2-4k. Me personally I only want the fully loaded original ones, the upgraded stuff just doesnt sound the same to me.

On what planet and in what dimension?

$5K for a IIC+... no. Not even a factory C++.

2 just sold in the Classifieds Section this week... 1 for $2800 and another for $3000. I passed on another for $2600 a few weeks back.

Sounds like someone is trying to pump up prices instead of living in reality.

Yeah I was thinking that too. I bought a factory c+ HRG from guitar center used for $1900 about 4 years ago, bought another factory c+ for $2600 and sold it for $2500. Some guys do ask super high prices (not sure if they actually sell for that), but if you loook around you can eventually find them for reasonable prices

The one that sold for $2800 though was upgraded from a iic, so it fits in with psychodave saying upgraded ones sell between 2500-3500. I didn't see the one for $3000

To be fair though, I think there were only around 10 factory c++'s (most were upgraded from either a c or c+), so those could go for a lot with the rarity factor

That's what I've heard on the factory C++ as well... around 10 made. There was one on eBay/reverb about 3 months ago... C++ factory long head that sat for like 2 months with the seller reducing the price from like $5K down to $4K with no buyers. He eventually kept it and pulled the listing. The only sort of amps selling for over $4K now are rare, excellent condition, vintage Marshalls (late '60s), some Vox and Fenders. That's about it.

 

[Racerxrated]

Real deal C+ or C++ fully loaded and long head are going for 5k plus no problem.

Converted C to C+ or C++ with one or two options missing can be had for 2-4k. Me personally I only want the fully loaded original ones, the upgraded stuff just doesnt sound the same to me.

On what planet and in what dimension?

$5K for a IIC+... no. Not even a factory C++.

2 just sold in the Classifieds Section this week... 1 for $2800 and another for $3000. I passed on another for $2600 a few weeks back.

Sounds like someone is trying to pump up prices instead of living in reality.

Yeah I was thinking that too. I bought a factory c+ HRG from guitar center used for $1900 about 4 years ago, bought another factory c+ for $2600 and sold it for $2500. Some guys do ask super high prices (not sure if they actually sell for that), but if you loook around you can eventually find them for reasonable prices

The one that sold for $2800 though was upgraded from a iic, so it fits in with psychodave saying upgraded ones sell between 2500-3500. I didn't see the one for $3000

To be fair though, I think there were only around 10 factory c++'s (most were upgraded from either a c or c+), so those could go for a lot with the rarity factor

I paid 3k for an upgraded C++ with a new headshell, HRG with 4 NOS 6L6(Mesa labeled green) on Reverb 1-2 months back. I was also looking at an original long head DRG C+ but it went for 3600, a bit over budget. It also had the presence on the front. If you find an original factory C++, they would be rare (under 15) and would also have the bonus of the ++ mod being switchable from what I've read. Those would command 4-5K I'd bet.

 

[Racerxrated]

Real deal C+ or C++ fully loaded and long head are going for 5k plus no problem.

Converted C to C+ or C++ with one or two options missing can be had for 2-4k. Me personally I only want the fully loaded original ones, the upgraded stuff just doesnt sound the same to me.

On what planet and in what dimension?

$5K for a IIC+... no. Not even a factory C++.

2 just sold in the Classifieds Section this week... 1 for $2800 and another for $3000. I passed on another for $2600 a few weeks back.

Sounds like someone is trying to pump up prices instead of living in reality.

Yeah I was thinking that too. I bought a factory c+ HRG from guitar center used for $1900 about 4 years ago, bought another factory c+ for $2600 and sold it for $2500. Some guys do ask super high prices (not sure if they actually sell for that), but if you loook around you can eventually find them for reasonable prices

The one that sold for $2800 though was upgraded from a iic, so it fits in with psychodave saying upgraded ones sell between 2500-3500. I didn't see the one for $3000

To be fair though, I think there were only around 10 factory c++'s (most were upgraded from either a c or c+), so those could go for a lot with the rarity factor

That's what I've heard on the factory C++ as well... around 10 made. There was one on eBay/reverb about 3 months ago... C++ factory long head that sat for like 2 months with the seller reducing the price from like $5K down to $4K with no buyers. He eventually kept it and pulled the listing. The only sort of amps selling for over $4K now are rare, excellent condition, vintage Marshalls (late '60s), some Vox and Fenders. That's about it.

That one didn't have the switchable ++ mod which called into question whether it was really an original factory C++.

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

Real deal C+ or C++ fully loaded and long head are going for 5k plus no problem.

Converted C to C+ or C++ with one or two options missing can be had for 2-4k. Me personally I only want the fully loaded original ones, the upgraded stuff just doesnt sound the same to me.

On what planet and in what dimension?

$5K for a IIC+... no. Not even a factory C++.

2 just sold in the Classifieds Section this week... 1 for $2800 and another for $3000. I passed on another for $2600 a few weeks back.

Sounds like someone is trying to pump up prices instead of living in reality.

Yeah I was thinking that too. I bought a factory c+ HRG from guitar center used for $1900 about 4 years ago, bought another factory c+ for $2600 and sold it for $2500. Some guys do ask super high prices (not sure if they actually sell for that), but if you loook around you can eventually find them for reasonable prices

The one that sold for $2800 though was upgraded from a iic, so it fits in with psychodave saying upgraded ones sell between 2500-3500. I didn't see the one for $3000

To be fair though, I think there were only around 10 factory c++'s (most were upgraded from either a c or c+), so those could go for a lot with the rarity factor

That's what I've heard on the factory C++ as well... around 10 made. There was one on eBay/reverb about 3 months ago... C++ factory long head that sat for like 2 months with the seller reducing the price from like $5K down to $4K with no buyers. He eventually kept it and pulled the listing. The only sort of amps selling for over $4K now are rare, excellent condition, vintage Marshalls (late '60s), some Vox and Fenders. That's about it.

That one didn't have the switchable ++ mod which called into question whether it was really an original factory C++.

Ah... good to know... I also remember someone questioning another "issue" with it which also called in to question it's "authenticity".

 

[vultures]

Real deal C+ or C++ fully loaded and long head are going for 5k plus no problem.

Converted C to C+ or C++ with one or two options missing can be had for 2-4k. Me personally I only want the fully loaded original ones, the upgraded stuff just doesnt sound the same to me.

On what planet and in what dimension?

$5K for a IIC+... no. Not even a factory C++.

2 just sold in the Classifieds Section this week... 1 for $2800 and another for $3000. I passed on another for $2600 a few weeks back.

Sounds like someone is trying to pump up prices instead of living in reality.

Yeah, an original factory IIC+ 60/100w with 105 transformer just sold in the classifieds for around $2600. I'm pretty positive that was the price because I was going to try to sell two guitars worth that much to buy it. But.. if you don't have the money sitting around waiting, you'll never sell anything fast enough to scoop them up.

 

[Racerxrated]

I was OK with 3K for the ++ I bought simply because I wanted to try a ++, and I wanted either the HRG or DRG. If I had paid for an upgrade or original + it probably would have cost more in the end to send it to Mesa for the ++ mod. This one was done in 2017, so it's all good for years to come.

 

[EXPcustom]

Real deal C+ or C++ fully loaded and long head are going for 5k plus no problem.

Converted C to C+ or C++ with one or two options missing can be had for 2-4k. Me personally I only want the fully loaded original ones, the upgraded stuff just doesnt sound the same to me.

On what planet and in what dimension?

$5K for a IIC+... no. Not even a factory C++.

2 just sold in the Classifieds Section this week... 1 for $2800 and another for $3000. I passed on another for $2600 a few weeks back.

Sounds like someone is trying to pump up prices instead of living in reality.

Yeah, an original factory IIC+ 60/100w with 105 transformer just sold in the classifieds for around $2600. I'm pretty positive that was the price because I was going to try to sell two guitars worth that much to buy it. But.. if you don't have the money sitting around waiting, you'll never sell anything fast enough to scoop them up.

Like I said and you guys are agreeing with me, upgraded or non loaded C+ or C++ heads are going for 2-4k.

There was a real deal C++ recently non upgraded, like a real deal just like I said and it went for over 5k.

 

[EXPcustom]

Real deal C+ or C++ fully loaded and long head are going for 5k plus no problem.

Converted C to C+ or C++ with one or two options missing can be had for 2-4k. Me personally I only want the fully loaded original ones, the upgraded stuff just doesnt sound the same to me.

I agree the real deal fetch higher money. The upgraded amps still get $2500-$3500 depending on condition.

The upgraded stuff is exactly the same as the factory 2C+. I believe the only differences are transformers. Most of the factory 2C+ amps have the 105 or export transformer. Having owned a factory 2C+ with 105 (simul) which was also upgraded to ++, upgraded 2C to + with the export transformer (simul) and an upgraded 2C to 2C++ with 100 transformer (non simul), I kept the 100 transformer without simul. It was bigger sounding and way more aggressive sounding than the others...by a lot. I found the 105 simul to be too smooth and a little mushy sounding vs the 100 as well. FWIW, I owned all of these amps at the same time.

Note that I used NOS Sylvania power tubes (both 415 and 416) in all amps with NOS Chinese 8th generation tubes. All tubes were tested, but since each transformer puts out is own plate voltage, there will be some variance in bias.

You know I just recently had a conversation with Mark C. about this because I had three real deal fully loaded C+ heads go through my hands in the last few years and we were discussing how when you had the 6l6GC and EL34 tubes run in simul class you get frequencies that arent there when you just run in non simulclass mode. He agreed with me. My friends always got early mkIII and early mkIIs that were upgraded and we did side by side comparisons, the real C+ smoked them. I mean they were similar but you can hear the real C+ difference.

I know and I think Gary mentioned after your post the PCBs arent the same in the upgraded amps.

 

[Racerxrated]

Real deal C+ or C++ fully loaded and long head are going for 5k plus no problem.

Converted C to C+ or C++ with one or two options missing can be had for 2-4k. Me personally I only want the fully loaded original ones, the upgraded stuff just doesnt sound the same to me.

On what planet and in what dimension?

$5K for a IIC+... no. Not even a factory C++.

2 just sold in the Classifieds Section this week... 1 for $2800 and another for $3000. I passed on another for $2600 a few weeks back.

Sounds like someone is trying to pump up prices instead of living in reality.

Yeah, an original factory IIC+ 60/100w with 105 transformer just sold in the classifieds for around $2600. I'm pretty positive that was the price because I was going to try to sell two guitars worth that much to buy it. But.. if you don't have the money sitting around waiting, you'll never sell anything fast enough to scoop them up.

Like I said and you guys are agreeing with me, upgraded or non loaded C+ or C++ heads are going for 2-4k.

There was a real deal C++ recently non upgraded, like a real deal just like I said and it went for over 5k.

Are you sure it sold? If that one was on Reverb, I thought he ended it because it didn't sell, and that might be because it didn't have the push/pull switchable ++ mod on the mid pot, which means it is NOT an original factory ++.
There was also a 2C+ Coli that a dude was asking 6-7k, I'd be very tempted to pay that if I had it. But it didn't sell either.

 

[EXPcustom]

Real deal C+ or C++ fully loaded and long head are going for 5k plus no problem.

Converted C to C+ or C++ with one or two options missing can be had for 2-4k. Me personally I only want the fully loaded original ones, the upgraded stuff just doesnt sound the same to me.

On what planet and in what dimension?

$5K for a IIC+... no. Not even a factory C++.

2 just sold in the Classifieds Section this week... 1 for $2800 and another for $3000. I passed on another for $2600 a few weeks back.

Sounds like someone is trying to pump up prices instead of living in reality.

Once again those that sold for 2800-3000 on the classifieds for were not all original fully loaded heads. Like I had stated if they were upgraded or were missing an option or two can be had for 2-4000.

 

[Racerxrated]

Real deal C+ or C++ fully loaded and long head are going for 5k plus no problem.

Converted C to C+ or C++ with one or two options missing can be had for 2-4k. Me personally I only want the fully loaded original ones, the upgraded stuff just doesnt sound the same to me.

I agree the real deal fetch higher money. The upgraded amps still get $2500-$3500 depending on condition.

The upgraded stuff is exactly the same as the factory 2C+. I believe the only differences are transformers. Most of the factory 2C+ amps have the 105 or export transformer. Having owned a factory 2C+ with 105 (simul) which was also upgraded to ++, upgraded 2C to + with the export transformer (simul) and an upgraded 2C to 2C++ with 100 transformer (non simul), I kept the 100 transformer without simul. It was bigger sounding and way more aggressive sounding than the others...by a lot. I found the 105 simul to be too smooth and a little mushy sounding vs the 100 as well. FWIW, I owned all of these amps at the same time.

Note that I used NOS Sylvania power tubes (both 415 and 416) in all amps with NOS Chinese 8th generation tubes. All tubes were tested, but since each transformer puts out is own plate voltage, there will be some variance in bias.

You know I just recently had a conversation with Mark C. about this because I had three real deal fully loaded C+ heads go through my hands in the last few years and we were discussing how when you had the 6l6GC and EL34 tubes run in simul class you get frequencies that arent there when you just run in non simulclass mode. He agreed with me. My friends always got early mkIII and early mkIIs that were upgraded and we did side by side comparisons, the real C+ smoked them. I mean they were similar but you can hear the real C+ difference.

I know and I think Gary mentioned after your post the PCBs arent the same in the upgraded amps.

As I mentioned before, my upgraded 60w C+ went up against an all original HRG with the pull deep, RP11 board and the coveted 105pt. The 60w sounded better...they were almost Identical, but the 60w won out for me. Psychodave has had numerous C+while he agrees that the originals will be worth more, there aren't any real differences tonewise other than normal differences between transformers.

 

[EXPcustom]

Real deal C+ or C++ fully loaded and long head are going for 5k plus no problem.

Converted C to C+ or C++ with one or two options missing can be had for 2-4k. Me personally I only want the fully loaded original ones, the upgraded stuff just doesnt sound the same to me.

On what planet and in what dimension?

$5K for a IIC+... no. Not even a factory C++.

2 just sold in the Classifieds Section this week... 1 for $2800 and another for $3000. I passed on another for $2600 a few weeks back.

Sounds like someone is trying to pump up prices instead of living in reality.

Yeah, an original factory IIC+ 60/100w with 105 transformer just sold in the classifieds for around $2600. I'm pretty positive that was the price because I was going to try to sell two guitars worth that much to buy it. But.. if you don't have the money sitting around waiting, you'll never sell anything fast enough to scoop them up.

Like I said and you guys are agreeing with me, upgraded or non loaded C+ or C++ heads are going for 2-4k.

There was a real deal C++ recently non upgraded, like a real deal just like I said and it went for over 5k.

Are you sure it sold? If that one was on Reverb, I thought he ended it because it didn't sell, and that might be because it didn't have the push/pull switchable ++ mod on the mid pot, which means it is NOT an original factory ++.
There was also a 2C+ Coli that a dude was asking 6-7k, I'd be very tempted to pay that if I had it. But it didn't sell either.

I am talking about the one from Maine, confirmed factory C++ by Mesa, if he pulled it... the listing , I know the guy I might just contact him and buy it from him but I am almost a 100% sure it sold for 5k or just over that.