market question for Mk II C/C+ folks

[EXPcustom]

Real deal C+ or C++ fully loaded and long head are going for 5k plus no problem.

Converted C to C+ or C++ with one or two options missing can be had for 2-4k. Me personally I only want the fully loaded original ones, the upgraded stuff just doesnt sound the same to me.

I agree the real deal fetch higher money. The upgraded amps still get $2500-$3500 depending on condition.

The upgraded stuff is exactly the same as the factory 2C+. I believe the only differences are transformers. Most of the factory 2C+ amps have the 105 or export transformer. Having owned a factory 2C+ with 105 (simul) which was also upgraded to ++, upgraded 2C to + with the export transformer (simul) and an upgraded 2C to 2C++ with 100 transformer (non simul), I kept the 100 transformer without simul. It was bigger sounding and way more aggressive sounding than the others...by a lot. I found the 105 simul to be too smooth and a little mushy sounding vs the 100 as well. FWIW, I owned all of these amps at the same time.

Note that I used NOS Sylvania power tubes (both 415 and 416) in all amps with NOS Chinese 8th generation tubes. All tubes were tested, but since each transformer puts out is own plate voltage, there will be some variance in bias.

You know I just recently had a conversation with Mark C. about this because I had three real deal fully loaded C+ heads go through my hands in the last few years and we were discussing how when you had the 6l6GC and EL34 tubes run in simul class you get frequencies that arent there when you just run in non simulclass mode. He agreed with me. My friends always got early mkIII and early mkIIs that were upgraded and we did side by side comparisons, the real C+ smoked them. I mean they were similar but you can hear the real C+ difference.

I know and I think Gary mentioned after your post the PCBs arent the same in the upgraded amps.

As I mentioned before, my upgraded 60w C+ went up against an all original HRG with the pull deep, RP11 board and the coveted 105pt. The 60w sounded better...they were almost Identical, but the 60w won out for me. Psychodave has had numerous C+while he agrees that the originals will be worth more, there aren't any real differences tonewise other than normal differences between transformers.

Hey, if it sounds great to you that's all that matters, Mark said he had a Son of Boogie that shits all over my C+ but the OP asked about IIC+ prices and I am just saying what I have seen and my personal experiences with the amps and the current used market.

 

[Racerxrated]

Real deal C+ or C++ fully loaded and long head are going for 5k plus no problem.

Converted C to C+ or C++ with one or two options missing can be had for 2-4k. Me personally I only want the fully loaded original ones, the upgraded stuff just doesnt sound the same to me.

I agree the real deal fetch higher money. The upgraded amps still get $2500-$3500 depending on condition.

The upgraded stuff is exactly the same as the factory 2C+. I believe the only differences are transformers. Most of the factory 2C+ amps have the 105 or export transformer. Having owned a factory 2C+ with 105 (simul) which was also upgraded to ++, upgraded 2C to + with the export transformer (simul) and an upgraded 2C to 2C++ with 100 transformer (non simul), I kept the 100 transformer without simul. It was bigger sounding and way more aggressive sounding than the others...by a lot. I found the 105 simul to be too smooth and a little mushy sounding vs the 100 as well. FWIW, I owned all of these amps at the same time.

Note that I used NOS Sylvania power tubes (both 415 and 416) in all amps with NOS Chinese 8th generation tubes. All tubes were tested, but since each transformer puts out is own plate voltage, there will be some variance in bias.

You know I just recently had a conversation with Mark C. about this because I had three real deal fully loaded C+ heads go through my hands in the last few years and we were discussing how when you had the 6l6GC and EL34 tubes run in simul class you get frequencies that arent there when you just run in non simulclass mode. He agreed with me. My friends always got early mkIII and early mkIIs that were upgraded and we did side by side comparisons, the real C+ smoked them. I mean they were similar but you can hear the real C+ difference.

I know and I think Gary mentioned after your post the PCBs arent the same in the upgraded amps.

As I mentioned before, my upgraded 60w C+ went up against an all original HRG with the pull deep, RP11 board and the coveted 105pt. The 60w sounded better...they were almost Identical, but the 60w won out for me. Psychodave has had numerous C+while he agrees that the originals will be worth more, there aren't any real differences tonewise other than normal differences between transformers.

Hey, if it sounds great to you that's all that matters, Mark said he had a Son of Boogie that shits all over my C+ but the OP asked about IIC+ prices and I am just saying what I have seen and my personal experiences with the amps and the current used market.

I hear ya. All amps are going to be different, but after some of what I've read I really expected there to be more of a difference, I jumped all over the chance to drive 4 hrs and grab an all original C+. But I didn't hear anything that really sold me on the original, I had my 60w all ready to post here and Reverb. More research on the Boogie Board told me that most guys didn't think there were any real differences between an original and upgrade, except the prices lol. Maybe with the Simul there is, I have yet to try one other than a couple Mk 3s.

 

[psychodave]

Danyeo here on RT found an original 2C++ (left Mesa with the ++...which was switchable with a push pull pot) at Guitar Center for cheap...around $1k (of course GC didn’t know what it was). I believe he flipped it for profit then that person flipped it for even more.

And I agree there are different circuit boards for C’s upgraded to C+. However, everyone I know and Mike B say they sound the “same” as original 2C+ amps. I put same in quotes, because we all know all amps have some variance. I had an original 2C+ that was fully loaded simul but NO reverb (paid $2k for it a few years ago) . That amp was one of the best sounding stock 2C+ amps. It had Sylvania 415’s and 416 power tubes. A friend and I felt that since it was so good stock, it would kill with the ++ mod. It did sound good ++’d, but I wish it was kept stock. Amp was super clean too.

With all of that said, I love my 2C++ with the 100 transformer and non-simul. It’s loaded with Sylvania 6L6 power tubes and Chinese C8 preamp tubes. Like mentioned, there are definitely tonal differences with simul and EL34’s.

 

[vultures]

Danyeo here on RT found an original 2C++ (left Mesa with the ++...which was switchable with a push pull pot) at Guitar Center for cheap...around $1k (of course GC didn’t know what it was). I believe he flipped it for profit then that person flipped it for even more.

When are we all gonna get under the same roof and get all the Mark series amps blasting again?

 

[GJgo]

Speaking of GC not knowing what it was, a GC near me just last week sold an original IIC+ DRG 105 PT hardwood / wicker combo for $799. They had it labeled as a Mark III. I missed it by 5 minutes. I still want to vomit thinking about it.

 

[Racerxrated]

REALLY???? ^^^ How the F&%$ did I miss that??? I still stalk that damn site....

My first 2C was 749 from a Boston GC.....

 

[GJgo]

It was only up for a couple hours. Not there in the morning, I saw it on my lunch break, called the store when I couldn't add it to my cart, and it had literally "just sold". It still hurts.

 

[Racerxrated]

It was only up for a couple hours. Not there in the morning, I saw it on my lunch break, called the store when I couldn't add it to my cart, and it had literally "just sold". It still hurts.

Damn. That was a big time grab for someone.
The best one was the 2C+ Coli that a lucky dude in Mpls found at a mom/pop store, it had been sitting buried in a pile of older amps for years. He got it for 1200 I think. It was one of Princes for the Purple Rain tour. I saw a DRG on Craigslist 2 months ago for 1800, when I was hunting another C....I was 2nd to go see it but #1 bought it of course.

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

Real deal C+ or C++ fully loaded and long head are going for 5k plus no problem.

Converted C to C+ or C++ with one or two options missing can be had for 2-4k. Me personally I only want the fully loaded original ones, the upgraded stuff just doesnt sound the same to me.

On what planet and in what dimension?

$5K for a IIC+... no. Not even a factory C++.

2 just sold in the Classifieds Section this week... 1 for $2800 and another for $3000. I passed on another for $2600 a few weeks back.

Sounds like someone is trying to pump up prices instead of living in reality.

Yeah, an original factory IIC+ 60/100w with 105 transformer just sold in the classifieds for around $2600. I'm pretty positive that was the price because I was going to try to sell two guitars worth that much to buy it. But.. if you don't have the money sitting around waiting, you'll never sell anything fast enough to scoop them up.

Like I said and you guys are agreeing with me, upgraded or non loaded C+ or C++ heads are going for 2-4k.

There was a real deal C++ recently non upgraded, like a real deal just like I said and it went for over 5k.

Are you sure it sold? If that one was on Reverb, I thought he ended it because it didn't sell, and that might be because it didn't have the push/pull switchable ++ mod on the mid pot, which means it is NOT an original factory ++.
There was also a 2C+ Coli that a dude was asking 6-7k, I'd be very tempted to pay that if I had it. But it didn't sell either.

I am talking about the one from Maine, confirmed factory C++ by Mesa, if he pulled it... the listing , I know the guy I might just contact him and buy it from him but I am almost a 100% sure it sold for 5k or just over that.

No. It did not sell. He kept lowering the price down finally to $4100 iirc... and then said he would kept it if it didn’t sell... it didn’t sell.


No one is going to pay more the $3K in this market for any MKIIC+... regardless of features, originality or rarity. People aren’t paying those prices.

 

[Racerxrated]

Real deal C+ or C++ fully loaded and long head are going for 5k plus no problem.

Converted C to C+ or C++ with one or two options missing can be had for 2-4k. Me personally I only want the fully loaded original ones, the upgraded stuff just doesnt sound the same to me.

On what planet and in what dimension?

$5K for a IIC+... no. Not even a factory C++.

2 just sold in the Classifieds Section this week... 1 for $2800 and another for $3000. I passed on another for $2600 a few weeks back.

Sounds like someone is trying to pump up prices instead of living in reality.

Yeah, an original factory IIC+ 60/100w with 105 transformer just sold in the classifieds for around $2600. I'm pretty positive that was the price because I was going to try to sell two guitars worth that much to buy it. But.. if you don't have the money sitting around waiting, you'll never sell anything fast enough to scoop them up.

Like I said and you guys are agreeing with me, upgraded or non loaded C+ or C++ heads are going for 2-4k.

There was a real deal C++ recently non upgraded, like a real deal just like I said and it went for over 5k.

Are you sure it sold? If that one was on Reverb, I thought he ended it because it didn't sell, and that might be because it didn't have the push/pull switchable ++ mod on the mid pot, which means it is NOT an original factory ++.
There was also a 2C+ Coli that a dude was asking 6-7k, I'd be very tempted to pay that if I had it. But it didn't sell either.

I am talking about the one from Maine, confirmed factory C++ by Mesa, if he pulled it... the listing , I know the guy I might just contact him and buy it from him but I am almost a 100% sure it sold for 5k or just over that.

No. It did not sell. He kept lowering the price down finally to $4100 iirc... and then said he would kept it if it didn’t sell... it didn’t sell.


No one is going to pay more the $3K in this market for any MKIIC+... regardless of features, originality or rarity. People aren’t paying those prices.

Oh, I'm quite sure if someone wanted to sell a 2C+ Coliseum with EQ for over 3K someone would buy it. Not 7k like what one was listed for, but 3-5k absolutely. IMO. I'd fire sale a lot of gear and come up with it myself.

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

Real deal C+ or C++ fully loaded and long head are going for 5k plus no problem.

Converted C to C+ or C++ with one or two options missing can be had for 2-4k. Me personally I only want the fully loaded original ones, the upgraded stuff just doesnt sound the same to me.

On what planet and in what dimension?

$5K for a IIC+... no. Not even a factory C++.

2 just sold in the Classifieds Section this week... 1 for $2800 and another for $3000. I passed on another for $2600 a few weeks back.

Sounds like someone is trying to pump up prices instead of living in reality.

Yeah, an original factory IIC+ 60/100w with 105 transformer just sold in the classifieds for around $2600. I'm pretty positive that was the price because I was going to try to sell two guitars worth that much to buy it. But.. if you don't have the money sitting around waiting, you'll never sell anything fast enough to scoop them up.

Like I said and you guys are agreeing with me, upgraded or non loaded C+ or C++ heads are going for 2-4k.

There was a real deal C++ recently non upgraded, like a real deal just like I said and it went for over 5k.

Are you sure it sold? If that one was on Reverb, I thought he ended it because it didn't sell, and that might be because it didn't have the push/pull switchable ++ mod on the mid pot, which means it is NOT an original factory ++.
There was also a 2C+ Coli that a dude was asking 6-7k, I'd be very tempted to pay that if I had it. But it didn't sell either.

I am talking about the one from Maine, confirmed factory C++ by Mesa, if he pulled it... the listing , I know the guy I might just contact him and buy it from him but I am almost a 100% sure it sold for 5k or just over that.

No. It did not sell. He kept lowering the price down finally to $4100 iirc... and then said he would kept it if it didn’t sell... it didn’t sell.


No one is going to pay more the $3K in this market for any MKIIC+... regardless of features, originality or rarity. People aren’t paying those prices.

Oh, I'm quite sure if someone wanted to sell a 2C+ Coliseum with EQ for over 3K someone would buy it. Not 7k like what one was listed for, but 3-5k absolutely. IMO. I'd fire sale a lot of gear and come up with it myself.

Maybe if it came with an authentic and certified lock of John Sykes’ pubic hair... cut during the recording of the 1987 Whitesnake album... but even then I’d have to think about it... or at least sniff it first.

 

[psychodave]

I can almost guarantee that an original long head 2C+ without reverb and presence on the front would sell for $5k+.

FWIW, i have a friend who sold his coliseum 2C++ for $14,000 to someone overseas a few years ago. I saw the emails and the transaction. It all comes down to supply and demand. I bet when Mike B retires, prices will go up.

I have a custom stereo EQ made out of two original Mark series GEQ’s that I’ll probably sell soon. These are impossible to get...unless you are Metallica. ;0). I’m actually going to sell just about everything in my rack except for some switching, effects unit and power amp. Both Triaxis preamps are modded for gain. Everything was done/made by Boogie.

 

[braintheory]

Why would no reverb and presence on front make it more desireable? Is it just because it's more rare?

 

[psychodave]

Why would no reverb and presence on front make it more desireable? Is it just because it's more rare?

It makes it like the James Hetfield “crunchberries” Mark 2C+. There is a tonal difference between reverb and non-reverb models. I much prefer non-reverb models.

 

[Racerxrated]

I can almost guarantee that an original long head 2C+ without reverb and presence on the front would sell for $5k+.

FWIW, i have a friend who sold his coliseum 2C++ for $14,000 to someone overseas a few years ago. I saw the emails and the transaction. It all comes down to supply and demand. I bet when Mike B retires, prices will go up.

I have a custom stereo EQ made out of two original Mark series GEQ’s that I’ll probably sell soon. These are impossible to get...unless you are Metallica. ;0). I’m actually going to sell just about everything in my rack except for some switching, effects unit and power amp. Both Triaxis preamps are modded for gain. Everything was done/made by Boogie.

The one that sold on ebay that I was looking at
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mesa-Boogie-Ma ... 7675.l2557

I was hoping this wouldn't climb much over 3 but I couldn't swing it, never tried a Simul C+.

 

[EXPcustom]

Why would no reverb and presence on front make it more desireable? Is it just because it's more rare?

It makes it like the James Hetfield “crunchberries” Mark 2C+. There is a tonal difference between reverb and non-reverb models. I much prefer non-reverb models.

The Crunchberries one has the X-port aka Export transformer. This is what people are tone chasing because supposedly the transformer give it a tonal difference.

 

[EXPcustom]

I can almost guarantee that an original long head 2C+ without reverb and presence on the front would sell for $5k+.

FWIW, i have a friend who sold his coliseum 2C++ for $14,000 to someone overseas a few years ago. I saw the emails and the transaction. It all comes down to supply and demand. I bet when Mike B retires, prices will go up.

I have a custom stereo EQ made out of two original Mark series GEQ’s that I’ll probably sell soon. These are impossible to get...unless you are Metallica. ;0). I’m actually going to sell just about everything in my rack except for some switching, effects unit and power amp. Both Triaxis preamps are modded for gain. Everything was done/made by Boogie.

I know of a fully loaded head that sold for 5500 to some collector in Dubai a few years ago.

 

[EXPcustom]

I can almost guarantee that an original long head 2C+ without reverb and presence on the front would sell for $5k+.

FWIW, i have a friend who sold his coliseum 2C++ for $14,000 to someone overseas a few years ago. I saw the emails and the transaction. It all comes down to supply and demand. I bet when Mike B retires, prices will go up.

I have a custom stereo EQ made out of two original Mark series GEQ’s that I’ll probably sell soon. These are impossible to get...unless you are Metallica. ;0). I’m actually going to sell just about everything in my rack except for some switching, effects unit and power amp. Both Triaxis preamps are modded for gain. Everything was done/made by Boogie.

The one that sold on ebay that I was looking at
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mesa-Boogie-Ma ... 7675.l2557

I was hoping this wouldn't climb much over 3 but I couldn't swing it, never tried a Simul C+.

Missing reverb therefore like I was saying falls between the 2-4k pricing.

Steve K sold his C++ which was upgraded for 4200.

I still stand behind my statement that a loaded C+, C++ or Xport loaded C+ in long chassis will sell for 5k or more.

 

[braintheory]

Why would no reverb and presence on front make it more desireable? Is it just because it's more rare?

It makes it like the James Hetfield “crunchberries” Mark 2C+. There is a tonal difference between reverb and non-reverb models. I much prefer non-reverb models.

If it was modded to have the reverb removed, would that make it sound the same or is there more to it than that? I'm guessing presence on front is just a cosmetic thing?

 

[vultures]

Real deal C+ or C++ fully loaded and long head are going for 5k plus no problem.

Converted C to C+ or C++ with one or two options missing can be had for 2-4k. Me personally I only want the fully loaded original ones, the upgraded stuff just doesnt sound the same to me.

On what planet and in what dimension?

$5K for a IIC+... no. Not even a factory C++.

2 just sold in the Classifieds Section this week... 1 for $2800 and another for $3000. I passed on another for $2600 a few weeks back.

Sounds like someone is trying to pump up prices instead of living in reality.

Yeah, an original factory IIC+ 60/100w with 105 transformer just sold in the classifieds for around $2600. I'm pretty positive that was the price because I was going to try to sell two guitars worth that much to buy it. But.. if you don't have the money sitting around waiting, you'll never sell anything fast enough to scoop them up.

Like I said and you guys are agreeing with me, upgraded or non loaded C+ or C++ heads are going for 2-4k.

There was a real deal C++ recently non upgraded, like a real deal just like I said and it went for over 5k.

Are you sure it sold? If that one was on Reverb, I thought he ended it because it didn't sell, and that might be because it didn't have the push/pull switchable ++ mod on the mid pot, which means it is NOT an original factory ++.
There was also a 2C+ Coli that a dude was asking 6-7k, I'd be very tempted to pay that if I had it. But it didn't sell either.

I am talking about the one from Maine, confirmed factory C++ by Mesa, if he pulled it... the listing , I know the guy I might just contact him and buy it from him but I am almost a 100% sure it sold for 5k or just over that.

No. It did not sell. He kept lowering the price down finally to $4100 iirc... and then said he would kept it if it didn’t sell... it didn’t sell.


No one is going to pay more the $3K in this market for any MKIIC+... regardless of features, originality or rarity. People aren’t paying those prices.

Oh, I'm quite sure if someone wanted to sell a 2C+ Coliseum with EQ for over 3K someone would buy it. Not 7k like what one was listed for, but 3-5k absolutely. IMO. I'd fire sale a lot of gear and come up with it myself.

I've tried to firesale, it's never fast enough. I've decided this year I'm putting aside some money for when two very specific pieces of gear pop up, I can just buy them right away. One being a IIC+ and another being a JEM77BFP. Just need to figure out how to tell the wife why $5-6k is being hidden.