Marshall 2061x head lost volume - Help Troubleshoot

[glip22]

Could just be a PI tube. Sometimes one of the triodes die. Happened to me a couple of times. Whenever I lose output I go right to the powertubes and PI tube. The tube can still glow and have no transconductane. Hope it's as simple as that.

Do I win anything if it's just a pretube? Can I put a pic up of an attentuator and smash it?

 

[stephen sawall]

As far as the UA goes .... you can get a load for you amp for a few dollars and re~amp with any amp you want with the line out on the amp. This is what the UA is doing. But you need to use their amp to re~amp all the time.

With some of the other attenuators with the line out and a other amp you can mix the sound of the original amp with the load/re~amp sound. I like this extra option myself.

All attenuators have a load on them. Some are adjustable .... some are set a for a certain load with respect to tone. The ones that are not adjustable or claim to be for all loads are just set at one load all the time with no respect for the differences in tone.

When I bought my Hot Plate years ago I tried everything that was available at that time and felt it had the best sound. I agree it does change the sound. If you change anything it well change the sound.

Some amps the Hot Plate sounds great with. Others I do not feel it helps as much .... but it still is great for controlling the volume.

Most amps are not designed to be run full blast all the time. I know all the THD amps are. The transformer and the rest of the THD amps are different than most and are made for it.

If you are driving hard (pedal in most cases) the front end of any amp you are more likely to have problems with this. I do not think any amp well do this well.

I agree with Jerry ..... Get the amp sounding the way you want. Attenuate to control the volume. You well need to fine tune the amp for different amounts of attenuation to get the sound you want.

I also agree with Steve .... Some amps sound best cranked. Not all are going to be able to take it.

 

[Anonymous]

You gonna pay for the repairs too? Attenuator torch is a fitting name.
Here's a nice thread about the UA. http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=579415&page=5 Check out what Aiken has to say on this page.
Feel free to crank the amps to 10. There's an tech somewhere that will thank you.
Jerry

He's getting a HotPlate, not a UA.

Steve

So you're not willing to pay for the repairs? Real easy to carry the torch when it's not your money on the line.
Jerry

Look Jerry, what are you busting my balls for? I used a cranked PeaceMaker into a HotPlate for years and never had any problem. I put MY money on the line. I know tons of other guys who do the same with NMV Marshalls. I'm simply giving my perspective on what has worked for me and you haven't given me one technical reason why running a cranked Marshall into a HotPlate is any worse than running a cranked Marshall into a 4x12. If you think no one one should run a cranked Marshall into a 4x12, that is silly because people have been doing it since the designs first came out... it's where the tone is in those amps...

Steve

 

[Anonymous]

The Hotplate is a great product, when used the right way. If you look at attenuators in general you will see a long line of broken amps behind them. It's not always the attenuator that caused the damage, but the amp being pushed beyond its limits. Some attenuators are worse than others. What is your amps limit? Who knows. It's really nothing I or anyone else can claim to know. Kind of like my speeding down the road analogy, just because I got away with doesn't mean you will or I will the next time I try. Every amp is different and every situation is different, the constant is that ANYTHING in this world pushed to its limit will fail quicker than something not worked as hard. I don't care if you're talking about amps, cars, or your dick, work it too hard and eventually you will have problems. How the amp is played has a big part, distortion at high levels is worse than a clean tone at high levels as I said above and Aiken says in his GP post. A square wave into a saturated output transformer is bad, period end. How you push something will play a part in what amps fail and what amps don't. Big difference in driving your car full bore down a hill or full bore up a hill. Up the hill works it much harder.
I can't say when or what amps will fail, I can say that after years of experience fixing broken amps, attenuators increase the failure rate tremendously when used wrong. IMO the right way to use them is to lower the volume, not to overwork the amp.
Everyone is free to believe what they want. I don't make money selling attenuators, I make money fixing amps. If I was smart I would tell everyone to buy an attenuator and crank up the amps so I could load my pockets!!!
Jerry

This whole post is about pushing the amp beyond its limits. It is not about attenuators at all. Once again, tell me why running a cranked NMV amp into a HotPlate is worse than running a cranked NMV amp into a 4x12? The only reason anyone uses an attenuator is to lower the volume, NOT to overwork the amp as you keep saying. To get the best tone out of my NMV PeaceMaker, it had to be cranked to 10. I used the attenuator to reduce the volume. Period. rareguitar was doing the same thing with his NMV Marshall.... He got the tone he wanted, which happened to require the volume on 10 and he used an attenuator to avoid going deaf...

What you appear to be saying is that under no circumstances should someone run their NMV Marshall on 10, whether into a 4x12 or attenuator. If not, then answer the simple question I've asked in two posts...

Steve

 

[JerryP]

Steve,
I'm sorry and I don't mean to be busting your balls. I guess what I'm trying to say as far as you goes is you probably should run around telling people they are safe to run their amps full out just based on your one experience which is the exception to the rule. Most amps will not handle running balls to the wall for any length of time. I get the same thing everytime I tell guys to only run their amps with a matched impedance, there's always one or two peolple that step up and say they've run them mismatched for years so it must be safe. Every situation is different and the botom line is amps are not designed to run on 10 and last.

You're right, it's not just an attenuator thing, but the attenuator is what makes guys feel they can run the amps full out. Most people I talk to seem to think the whole point of the attenuator is to allow you to work the power tubes and they automatically dime the amps. Running the amps louder to get to the sweet spot yes, running them right over the edge into destruction, no.

Guys shouldn't run their amps on 10 and they wouldn't if it weren't for the attenuator.
Jerry

 

[glip22]

The OP has a problem with his amp. Did we help him out with his amp or did we discourage him from cranking his amp again. Hopefully it's just a PI tube and then what?

 

[Anonymous]

Steve,
I'm sorry and I don't mean to be busting your balls. I guess what I'm trying to say as far as you goes is you probably should run around telling people they are safe to run their amps full out just based on your one experience which is the exception to the rule. Most amps will not handle running balls to the wall for any length of time. I get the same thing everytime I tell guys to only run their amps with a matched impedance, there's always one or two peolple that step up and say they've run them mismatched for years so it must be safe. Every situation is different and the botom line is amps are not designed to run on 10 and last.

Ok, but just to be clear, I am not only speaking on personal experience. I'm speaking based on the many folks I know who run 100 W NMV Super Leads on 10 into both cabs and attenuators without blowing transformers. Clearly NMV Marshalls were not made to be run on 10, but you can't get the kind of tone and feel out of a Super Lead that I'm (and a lot of others as well) looking for unless it is on 10...

You're right, it's not just an attenuator thing, but the attenuator is what makes guys feel they can run the amps full out. Most people I talk to seem to think the whole point of the attenuator is to allow you to work the power tubes and they automatically dime the amps. Running the amps louder to get to the sweet spot yes, running them right over the edge into destruction, no.

For some amps, this would make no sense because you can get plenty of gain from the preamp. With a 100W NMV Marshall or clone, you're gonna have to run it "right over the edge into destruction" to get the sweet spot.

Guys shouldn't run their amps on 10 and they wouldn't if it weren't for the attenuator.
Jerry

I'll agree, except for NMV amps where the only way to get gain is to crank them.

Steve

 

[stephen sawall]

Any luck with the amp so far Brad ?

 

[JTyson]

I'm interested to hear the diagnosis, Brad I know your thread kinda got sidelined, but I learned some stuff about the UA that I did not know, I was under the impression it was the one to get, but I dont like the thought of a 30ohm load at all. hhmmm.......

 

[King Guitar]

Sorry for the late reply guys, getting ink done in a Atlanta Holiday Inn as I type this. Dropped it off Thursday at my local tech and then left town. Will get a SITREP on it this week.

 

[stephen sawall]

I saw the other thread and forgot that was today ..... it well be interesting to see what it was.

 

[dstroud]

I been using a Ho UA with my plexi type amps for a couple years now - not had any problems. And done lots of sessions where the amps were on for up to 4-8 hours in a day. But I don't run my amps on 10, I'm usually between 6-8 so I'm hoping not to run into any problems. The amp gets a bit of grind at that point and I just hit it with a tubescreamer for the extra gain. I do hope your transformer isn't gone! But if it is it might be hard to say if it was the attenuator that caused it, or if the transformer just went belly up.

 

[King Guitar]

Heard back from my tech today, output transformer is smoked. Replacing it now.

 

[JTyson]

any idea why?

 

[tweed]

Oh damn that sucks