Mesa Mk V:25 vs Wizard MC50 clip

[Jakem]

Sounded great!

 

[LPMojoGL]

Probably shouldn't start another thread for such a similar comparison.
So here is a brief clip of the Mesa Tremoverb Vintage High Gain setting vs the non-boosted lead channel of the Wizard, doing some drop D riffage kind of thing that was commonly played on the TOV in it's heyday:

 

[LPMojoGL]

so after all the gear you've been through what are your thoughts now? what would you get?

Cool question.

Regarding all gear...For playing at home, discovering, recording...
I say try it all! It's a blast, you learn a lot, you find your thing. So many great amps, guitars and pedals, tones to be explored. Even if just a hobby, it's a rewarding experience, well worth the $ and time. I found my favs. Find yours, by trying em all.

Suggestions for decent tone on the cheap: Squier Classic Vibes, Peavey Classics and Marshall DSLs are great bang for buck. The Chinese companies like Demon FX, Joyo, Donner, NUX, etc... offer so many good pedals (clones) for cheap, you can find what you prefer then buy the real thing, if on a budget.

Regarding amps...For playing with a band (pop, country, classic rock to the heaviest metal), I found I prefer a single channel amp and a couple of pedals. Just about any amp that can be set to slight breakup, can do most things with a couple pedals and your guitar volume. This idea really hit home when my Bogner Shiva popped a fuse during band practice, and I plugged into the bassist's 69 Fender Bassman. My SG, thru a Tube Screamer, into that amp at band volume...decimated any tone I could get out of the Shiva. The Shiva was sold within a week. If I played in a band, I'd use a single channel amp and modest pedalboard. Some standout amps:
1. Marshall 1974 or clone like the Retro King, for classic rock and blues in a 3 piece band. 2061 for a bit more punch and harder rock. A 20w plexi like the Germino Masonette would probably get this spot, tbh. Lil Marshall SV20 sounds fine every time I hear it live.
2. Fender Bassman for anything short of metal, Allmans to Van Halen to your fav 90s STP AIC Tool. It's effing amazing when cranked. LOUD AF. Top tier tone in a band mix.
3. JCM800 with effects loop for the heavier stuff, 80s metal to modern stuff. Honestly, this would be my #1 choice for playing with a band, because it can do what the others do + more. You can nearly match a 5150, Dual Rec, whatever high gain flavor of the day, with this setup if done right. Almost every badass rock n metal band, new or old, no matter how low down-tuned, has utilized this type setup at some point. Your favorite Mastodon tones? Marshall. Any 80s metal, 90s grunge or hard rock band? Marshall. Meshugga, Gojira, Korn? All used Marshall, if only in the studio. If I'm playing out, want to cover a lot of ground, at any volume...JCM800. Well, probably my Wizard or SLO, but whatever.

Honorable mention to 4xel84 Voxy type amps, as they were amazing at LOUD volume, and may very well have been better with a band if I ever had a chance to experience that.

For what I do, play and record at home, covering all kinds of sounds n genres, after 2 decades of flipping amps and cabs and pedals....

Guitars:
I LOVE my Gibsons: LP, Explorer, SG. Adored the ES335, but realistically, wasn't me. Can't gel with a V.
Need a good Strat. Squier CV HSS covers that spot these days. I've had so many, Charvel, Carvin, G&L, Fender, Nash... Squier scratches the itch, tonally hanging with anything I have, while also being the guitar I take out to play and not worry about. Epiphones are shit. LTDs are pretty good but expensive these days. Squier Classic Vibes are criminally good bang for buck.
Suhr Modern is in my top 3 keepers. Dunno which Gibson I'd give up to make it stay, but it would stay. I've had and loved a lot of amazing guitars, Anderson being the closest I can think of, but I just love my Suhr.

Pedals:
This is easy. I'll just list my fav essentials. There's way more I could mention.
Jam Wahcko Wah. Dunlop Rotovibe. Peterson Strobostomp HD tuner. Carl Martin Timmons Comp. EHX POG. Boss CE2. EHX Gold Small Stone. Klon clone (Mesa Cleo), Timmy, Analogman King of Tone and TS overdrives. EQD Dispatch Master, Strymon Dig, Boomerang or Boss RC5 looper.

Amps:
This is tough. If I'm honest...
SLO100 and Positive Grid Spark Mini do everything I need, while satisfying the tone junkie in me. Spark Mini is a great grab n go, coffee table, quick recording solution amp.
I prefer the SLO thru a 4x12 with GBs, but it sounds perfectly fine thru my Bogner OS2x12.
That was difficult to type. Because, Wizard!!!! Love the Wiz. Wiz or SLO? SLO has more weight, definition, higher quality sound, and is more versatile. Hearing the SLO after hearing any other amp, it just wins. Even with non-musicians. Still, the Wiz fun factor, while not the best sounding for all things, or best feeling for a lot of players, is intoxicating for me. It can be scathing, unforgiving, unwieldy...basically a bitch, in the wrong hands. Once you get some time with it, learn how to control it, gel with it...
It's like riding a rowdy motorcycle, or a horse that keeps testing you. Get it under control, and you're flying. Just a lot of fun.

 

[HowieJams]

Yep the Wizard can do quiet volumes very well. It doesn't go fully silent with the volume at minimum, there are still a few frequencies that slip through very quietly. But they even back out before hitting TV volume and only get better from there.

thanks, I need to check these amps out

 

[HowieJams]

Thanks!

First...The Rocca is long gone. It was modded, so doesn't represent a stock model. It was a fantastic amp, having similar punch to the Wizard, but was a quite a bit more touchy to dial in. Happy to answer any questions about how they compared.

I agree, playing the same thing is the best way to discern differences, in any gear.
I don't like using a looper when comparing amps or pedals, because they all react differently to your input. I prefer to play the same thing, but in the way I would with that pedal or amp. Playing to their strengths.
And None of this "all knobs at noon on both amps" BS. Totally ruins any comparison. What kind of lame, braindead dumbass dials all of his amps or pedals with the knobs at noon, instead of what sounds best for each piece?
Anyone reading this that is one of those Youtubers that puts all the knobs at noon on every comparison, F#$% O@# for wasting everyone's time, and misleading those inexperienced enough to not know how idiotic you are. You suck. I don't understand why you have subscribers.
Pardon the rant.


Thanks for the kind words!
Short answer:
Can the Wiz do home volumes in that db range? Yes. Absolutely.
Does it sound its best doing that? Negative.

Long answer:
In my experience, every master volume tube amp, that is capable of high gain, can sound decent at bedroom volumes. Just gotta dial em in for that volume.
I did that for years, while living in apartments, not playing out.
It wasn't until I got a house, and could regularly play at healthy volumes, that I realized just how bad that apt volume sound is.
With a mv tube amp, like your SLO30 or Little Sister, there is a point on the volume knob where the amp goes from making sound, to opening up. Can it sound good at .5 on the dial? Sure. Maybe needs more treble and presence, less mids on the eq. But at 1.5, it's actually opening up. More clarity, dynamics, harmonics, starting to breathe a little. Pedals actually sound decent with it. And then, as you increase the volume, there's a point where you start engaging the power tubes. The amp shows its real character. You have optimal tone, sustain, dynamics, harmonics, compression. Pedals sound the way they were designed to, like part of the amp.

So yeah, the Wiz can sound great at TV volumes. Just like, probably better than, the SLO30.
I find higher watt mv amps sound better at bedroom volumes than lower watt mv amps. IMO, for bedroom volumes: 50-100w amps>20-30watt amps with big tubes>lower watt amps with 6v6/el84s.
Those lower watt, smaller tube amps need more volume to initially open up, almost always sound smaller or more middy, but hit the fun power tube stage faster. They're the worst for low home volumes, but the best for small clubs and recording.


You're not wrong. I'm thinking more like this as I compare. Thanks for the advice.


Yeah, Mk IV seemed to best match up with the bigger amp sound. Mk IIC+ has less lows, Xtreme smoother as you said.
No denying the versatility and quality of sounds coming out of this little amp. It's only when comparing it to higher watt amps that I realize it's limitations in clarity and frequency breadth. But, therein lies the charm with the best lower watt amps. A Deluxe Reverb sounds small compared to the bigger Fenders. But it's probably the most utilized Fender amp ever, and one of the best in a live mix. Best live blues and country tones I've heard were thru a DR.
I haven't done a direct comparison, but I'm willing to bet this lil Mesa could hang with the DR doing its thing, and then do a whole lot more.



Talking sense. Agreed. Thanks.

I think you should keep the Wizard, sounds like a great map and even if it doesn't sound its best at low volumes, it still sounds better than smaller amps at low volumes from what you are saying.

My best sounding amp at low volumes is my Soldano Astro 20 (6V6)

I will say, I prefer 6V6 and 6L6 amps over EL84 and EL34 amps.

 

[anomaly]

Sounds really good. Both amps.

 

[TheGreatGreen]

And None of this "all knobs at noon on both amps" BS. Totally ruins any comparison. What kind of lame, braindead dumbass dials all of his amps or pedals with the knobs at noon, instead of what sounds best for each piece?
Anyone reading this that is one of those Youtubers that puts all the knobs at noon on every comparison, F#$% O@# for wasting everyone's time, and misleading those inexperienced enough to not know how idiotic you are. You suck. I don't understand why you have subscribers.
Pardon the rant.

Testify, brother!

I also can’t stand all-noon demos either. People think they’re being objective or scientific because it seems neutral if you don’t think about it for more than two seconds, but all controls at noon is just another way to dial with your eyes, but wrapped in a disguise of appearing objective and neutral.

First, pot tolerance is all over the place. One pot’s 10:00 could literally measure the same as another pot’s 2:00, so that pretty much invalidates it right there.

But also, imagine doing that test with a Mesa Mark with its pre-gain tone stack, or a Bogner Ecstasy with its log Treble pot, or different flavors of 5150 where most, but not all, of them have Presence pots that don’t even start to work until like 3:00.

Dial your gear to where it sounds as good as possible. That’s the only way to do it.

 

[gbsmusic]

Sounds outstanding! Great playing too!

 

[tjnx]

Cool question.

Regarding all gear...For playing at home, discovering, recording...
I say try it all! It's a blast, you learn a lot, you find your thing. So many great amps, guitars and pedals, tones to be explored. Even if just a hobby, it's a rewarding experience, well worth the $ and time. I found my favs. Find yours, by trying em all.

Suggestions for decent tone on the cheap: Squier Classic Vibes, Peavey Classics and Marshall DSLs are great bang for buck. The Chinese companies like Demon FX, Joyo, Donner, NUX, etc... offer so many good pedals (clones) for cheap, you can find what you prefer then buy the real thing, if on a budget.

Regarding amps...For playing with a band (pop, country, classic rock to the heaviest metal), I found I prefer a single channel amp and a couple of pedals. Just about any amp that can be set to slight breakup, can do most things with a couple pedals and your guitar volume. This idea really hit home when my Bogner Shiva popped a fuse during band practice, and I plugged into the bassist's 69 Fender Bassman. My SG, thru a Tube Screamer, into that amp at band volume...decimated any tone I could get out of the Shiva. The Shiva was sold within a week. If I played in a band, I'd use a single channel amp and modest pedalboard. Some standout amps:
1. Marshall 1974 or clone like the Retro King, for classic rock and blues in a 3 piece band. 2061 for a bit more punch and harder rock. A 20w plexi like the Germino Masonette would probably get this spot, tbh. Lil Marshall SV20 sounds fine every time I hear it live.
2. Fender Bassman for anything short of metal, Allmans to Van Halen to your fav 90s STP AIC Tool. It's effing amazing when cranked. LOUD AF. Top tier tone in a band mix.
3. JCM800 with effects loop for the heavier stuff, 80s metal to modern stuff. Honestly, this would be my #1 choice for playing with a band, because it can do what the others do + more. You can nearly match a 5150, Dual Rec, whatever high gain flavor of the day, with this setup if done right. Almost every badass rock n metal band, new or old, no matter how low down-tuned, has utilized this type setup at some point. Your favorite Mastodon tones? Marshall. Any 80s metal, 90s grunge or hard rock band? Marshall. Meshugga, Gojira, Korn? All used Marshall, if only in the studio. If I'm playing out, want to cover a lot of ground, at any volume...JCM800. Well, probably my Wizard or SLO, but whatever.

Honorable mention to 4xel84 Voxy type amps, as they were amazing at LOUD volume, and may very well have been better with a band if I ever had a chance to experience that.

For what I do, play and record at home, covering all kinds of sounds n genres, after 2 decades of flipping amps and cabs and pedals....

Guitars:
I LOVE my Gibsons: LP, Explorer, SG. Adored the ES335, but realistically, wasn't me. Can't gel with a V.
Need a good Strat. Squier CV HSS covers that spot these days. I've had so many, Charvel, Carvin, G&L, Fender, Nash... Squier scratches the itch, tonally hanging with anything I have, while also being the guitar I take out to play and not worry about. Epiphones are shit. LTDs are pretty good but expensive these days. Squier Classic Vibes are criminally good bang for buck.
Suhr Modern is in my top 3 keepers. Dunno which Gibson I'd give up to make it stay, but it would stay. I've had and loved a lot of amazing guitars, Anderson being the closest I can think of, but I just love my Suhr.

Pedals:
This is easy. I'll just list my fav essentials. There's way more I could mention.
Jam Wahcko Wah. Dunlop Rotovibe. Peterson Strobostomp HD tuner. Carl Martin Timmons Comp. EHX POG. Boss CE2. EHX Gold Small Stone. Klon clone (Mesa Cleo), Timmy, Analogman King of Tone and TS overdrives. EQD Dispatch Master, Strymon Dig, Boomerang or Boss RC5 looper.

Amps:
This is tough. If I'm honest...
SLO100 and Positive Grid Spark Mini do everything I need, while satisfying the tone junkie in me. Spark Mini is a great grab n go, coffee table, quick recording solution amp.
I prefer the SLO thru a 4x12 with GBs, but it sounds perfectly fine thru my Bogner OS2x12.
That was difficult to type. Because, Wizard!!!! Love the Wiz. Wiz or SLO? SLO has more weight, definition, higher quality sound, and is more versatile. Hearing the SLO after hearing any other amp, it just wins. Even with non-musicians. Still, the Wiz fun factor, while not the best sounding for all things, or best feeling for a lot of players, is intoxicating for me. It can be scathing, unforgiving, unwieldy...basically a bitch, in the wrong hands. Once you get some time with it, learn how to control it, gel with it...
It's like riding a rowdy motorcycle, or a horse that keeps testing you. Get it under control, and you're flying. Just a lot of fun.

Thanks for the detailed answer! This is interesting because although I haven't owned all of the same gear, I've tried most and have come to many of the same conclusions. I've discovered I'm a one amp kind of guy as the another will probably just sit there if it doesn't have a unique purpose. Thats what's happened with my guitars. I kind of bond with the piece of gear and its use case so I'd just need really different specialties.

Honestly in thinking about it I've been settling on something like a 2203x or snorkler with a loop or the SLO. I would probably break the rule and squeeze in a new Dual Rect reissue but I think I would be happy any of those. I gigged a bit with a more elaborate setup that kind of emulated a multi-channel amp and I've found I like a real good single channel or purpose-built amp better. I kind of like the voice it brings when playing stuff outside of its wheelhouse.

I hadn't considered the Bassman in a while though and haven't got a Gibson yet, just superstrats so far. Real cool and great info

 

[Greazygeo]

And None of this "all knobs at noon on both amps" BS. Totally ruins any comparison. What kind of lame, braindead dumbass dials all of his amps or pedals with the knobs at noon, instead of what sounds best for each piece?
Anyone reading this that is one of those Youtubers that puts all the knobs at noon on every comparison, F#$% O@# for wasting everyone's time, and misleading those inexperienced enough to not know how idiotic you are. You suck. I don't understand why you have subscribers.
Pardon the rant.

But my Wizard settings are all at noon pretty much…I find if an amp doesn’t sound good with everything at noon the amp is not for me…or something is wrong in the signal chain somewhere….and yes Mesa Mark series don’t count.

 

[LPMojoGL]

I think you should keep the Wizard, sounds like a great map and even if it doesn't sound its best at low volumes, it still sounds better than smaller amps at low volumes from what you are saying.

My best sounding amp at low volumes is my Soldano Astro 20 (6V6)

I will say, I prefer 6V6 and 6L6 amps over EL84 and EL34 amps.

You and everyone else suggest keeping the Wiz. The universe has spoken!

Agreed. Dig 6L6 & 6v6, vs EL34 & el84.
I've had a few amps where you can swap 6L6 or EL34s, and always choose 6L6.
One was an Allen Classic 10, loosely based on the 5F2a Tweed Princeton design. 1 12ax7 and 1 power tube. Came with an EL34. A Philips 6L6 was unbelievably better. That lil amp was LOUD, and sounded fantastic. Barky mids, Rolling Stones type thing.
Other one was a Mesa Dual Rectifier. Everything I dig about that amp seems to disappear with EL34s. Same with Mezzabarba vs SLO.
Have had a couple amps where you could choose between 6v6 and el84, Egnater Rebel and some Divided by 13 model. Preferred 6v6.

But my Wizard settings are all at noon pretty much…I find if an amp doesn’t sound good with everything at noon the amp is not for me…or something is wrong in the signal chain somewhere….and yes Mesa Mark series don’t count.

So many amps are definitely not the amp for you then!
I'm more of a 6,4,6 or 6,6,6 kinda guy with Marshalls, Wizards, Friedmans etc.
Wizards sound good dialed in just about any way, and Marshalls don't change much with small tweaks from noon. But so many other amps, vintage Fenders to Mesas and other modern high gainers, take some tweaking.

 

[LPMojoGL]

Thanks for the detailed answer! This is interesting because although I haven't owned all of the same gear, I've tried most and have come to many of the same conclusions. I've discovered I'm a one amp kind of guy as the another will probably just sit there if it doesn't have a unique purpose. Thats what's happened with my guitars. I kind of bond with the piece of gear and its use case so I'd just need really different specialties.

Honestly in thinking about it I've been settling on something like a 2203x or snorkler with a loop or the SLO. I would probably break the rule and squeeze in a new Dual Rect reissue but I think I would be happy any of those. I gigged a bit with a more elaborate setup that kind of emulated a multi-channel amp and I've found I like a real good single channel or purpose-built amp better. I kind of like the voice it brings when playing stuff outside of its wheelhouse.

I hadn't considered the Bassman in a while though and haven't got a Gibson yet, just superstrats so far. Real cool and great info

Giving the detailed answer was kind of cathartic in a way. Helped me realize what I really want to keep, and would be comfortable selling.
Funny how a lot of us come to the same conclusions on gear over time. A cab or speaker, and especially IR, can make most amps sound very similar.
Ain't nothing wrong with having a 2203 and Dual Rec. That combo is studio magic.

I'm a Gibson fan. A Les Paul was my dream guitar when I started playing as a teen. One of my friends hates Gibsons, saying they don't stay in tune, there are better guitars for the $, etc. Always giving me hell, telling me to sell mine. No way!
He's not wrong, therr are better guitars for le$$, especially if you're into the technical aspects.
But, that's missing the point. Gibsons do what they do, they have soul, and you either love em or hate em.
Much like a Harley Davidson...there are tons of better bikes for way less $, but nothing gives you that feeling, exudes cool, speaks to your soul (and yes attracts the ladies), like a great Harley that you've dialed in to fit you like a glove.
Gibson is similar, except for the ladies part.
Gibsons are hit or miss. 3 of the same model will sound and play wildly different from each other. Their build quality is all over the place, and I would recommend never buying one you haven't played unless you can return it. You really have to run the racks, try em all, to find THE ONE. But when you do, a great Gibson is a lifelong friend.

 

[Greazygeo]

So many amps are definitely not the amp for you then!
I'm more of a 6,4,6 or 6,6,6 kinda guy with Marshalls, Wizards, Friedmans etc.
Wizards sound good dialed in just about any way, and Marshalls don't change much with small tweaks from noon. But so many other amps, vintage Fenders to Mesas and other modern high gainers, take some tweaking.

I guess I shoukd have said everything at noon except the bass…normally pretty much off. With vintage Fenders, if using single coils as they were designed for, noon works perfect unless amp on ten then turn bass to zero. HB pickups treb on 10 bass on zero.

 

[LPMojoGL]

I guess I shoukd have said everything at noon except the bass…normally pretty much off. With vintage Fenders, if using single coils as they were designed for, noon works perfect unless amp on ten then turn bass to zero. HB pickups treb on 10 bass on zero.

Same with 4 holer Marshalls for me, bass at or near 0, especially bass spec. Mids cranked.

 

[311boogieman]

Right?

Wrong. You'll regret it I'm sure. But cool vids man, I always enjoy your clips.

 

[HowieJams]

You and everyone else suggest keeping the Wiz. The universe has spoken!

Agreed. Dig 6L6 & 6v6, vs EL34 & el84.
I've had a few amps where you can swap 6L6 or EL34s, and always choose 6L6.
One was an Allen Classic 10, loosely based on the 5F2a Tweed Princeton design. 1 12ax7 and 1 power tube. Came with an EL34. A Philips 6L6 was unbelievably better. That lil amp was LOUD, and sounded fantastic. Barky mids, Rolling Stones type thing.
Other one was a Mesa Dual Rectifier. Everything I dig about that amp seems to disappear with EL34s. Same with Mezzabarba vs SLO.
Have had a couple amps where you could choose between 6v6 and el84, Egnater Rebel and some Divided by 13 model. Preferred 6v6.

So many amps are definitely not the amp for you then!
I'm more of a 6,4,6 or 6,6,6 kinda guy with Marshalls, Wizards, Friedmans etc.
Wizards sound good dialed in just about any way, and Marshalls don't change much with small tweaks from noon. But so many other amps, vintage Fenders to Mesas and other modern high gainers, take some tweaking.

6L6 amps and even 6V6s don't seem to change the guitar tone as much as EL34 and EL84 amps.
They just seem more clear and transparent and not as finicky with different guitars.

My Victory MKX is much more picky about humbuckers in different guitars than either of my Soldanos.

The Victory needs Treble and Presence raised up to even get where I like and especially when using my Ibanez Prestige AZ2402 or Charvel Guthrie Govan USA, it is much more picky with my Ibanez & Charvel humbuckers than my Gibsons.

I try to set my amps with all tone settings at noon and work from there.
Usually the only thing I ever tweak is treble and sometimes presence.
Gain is a different story, depending on what I am playing and what boost I am using.

I thought you might hate my videos when I read your post which I put below, lol:
In fact, I just did a video of my Boss SD-1 vs Way Huge Conspiracy Theory comparing all knobs at noon vs Level Max and gain minimum.
I am just messing around, I know you didn't mean me, but I do try to do everything at noon and work from there to tweak, usually not much, but like you sais, different amops and pedals need different settings:

"None of this "all knobs at noon on both amps" BS. Totally ruins any comparison. What kind of lame, braindead dumbass dials all of his amps or pedals with the knobs at noon, instead of what sounds best for each piece?
Anyone reading this that is one of those Youtubers that puts all the knobs at noon on every comparison, F#$% O@# for wasting everyone's time, and misleading those inexperienced enough to not know how idiotic you are. You suck. I don't understand why you have subscribers.
Pardon the rant."

 

[Greazygeo]

Same with 4 holer Marshalls for me, bass at or near 0, especially bass spec. Mids cranked.

Me too mostly, sometimes it is everything at noon. when going for something cleaner.