Metal guitar recording methods used by majority are far from optimal?

K

Kraku

Member
Why does every recording metal guitarist/producer usually use 12" V30s, often in 4x12 cab, and then put SM57 and some other mic super close to the cabinet? Isn't that backwards way of trying to achieve the sound they're after? Metal producers/guitarists seem to like the "bite" the SM57 brings to the table, but often also need to use a carefully placed second mic infront of the speaker to mix some other frequency content into the mix.

If the metal guys are after "biting" guitar sound, why not simply use a smaller and brighter speaker, such as Celestion G10 Gold 10" 40W 8 ohm speaker? That way the speaker itself brings the tighter and biting sound, instead of someone having to manufacture/process it out of non-biting sounding speaker with some compromised mic choice and extra processing.

If the sound can be achieved in the speaker itself, then it is possible to actually hear that sound in the room. That way you'll get a really good idea what you'll get when you put a neutral sounding mic in front of the speaker. That in turn should make the whole process easier and faster. Just take a neutral sounding SDC/LDC mic, pull it away a bit from the speaker so that you'll get most of the speaker's area recorded with one mic. Then hit record. Logically thinking that should give the type of sounds people are trying to achieve using convoluted methods.

To make matters worse, 4x12 cabs seem to eat up the biting frequency range away from the speakers sound. 2x12 cabs seem to have those frequencies intact, so I would say it's a better idea to use 2x12 for metal, instead of 4x12, which everyone probably uses only because "this is how it has always been done".

EDIT:
There seems to be a lot of misconceptions about what I am after here. By mentioning "in the room" sound, I don't mean that I want the room ambience into the sound. I mean the frequency spectrum itself. If you close mic the speaker from an inch away, you'll hear very different type of sound than in the room, because different parts of the speaker sound different. In the room you'll hear the whole speaker area, how it sounds as a whole. That is what I meant by saying "it is possible to actually hear that sound in the room".
 
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Kraku said:
Why does every recording metal guitarist/producer usually use 12" V30s, often in 4x12 cab, and then put SM57 and some other mic super close to the cabinet? Isn't that backwards way of trying to achieve the sound they're after? Metal producers/guitarists seem to like the "bite" the SM57 brings to the table, but often also need to use a carefully placed second mic infront of the speaker to mix some other frequency content into the mix.

If the metal guys are after "biting" guitar sound, why not simply use a smaller and brighter speaker, such as Celestion G10 Gold 10" 40W 8 ohm speaker? That way the speaker itself brings the tighter and biting sound, instead of someone having to manufacture/process it out of non-biting sounding speaker with some compromised mic choice and extra processing.

If the sound can be achieved in the speaker itself, then it is possible to actually hear that sound in the room. That way you'll get a really good idea what you'll get when you put a neutral sounding mic in front of the speaker. That in turn should make the whole process easier and faster. Just take a neutral sounding SDC/LDC mic, pull it away a bit from the speaker so that you'll get most of the speaker's area recorded with one mic. Then hit record. Logically thinking that should give the type of sounds people are trying to achieve using convoluted methods.

To make matters worse, 4x12 cabs seem to eat up the biting frequency range away from the speakers sound. 2x12 cabs seem to have those frequencies intact, so I would say it's a better idea to use 2x12 for metal, instead of 4x12, which everyone probably uses only because "this is how it has always been done".
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Looking forward to your speaker, recording shoot out 😉
 
I like how you lay it all out, but in practice, this sound is going to suck for metal.
The LDC backed off is going to pick up more of your room, which I assume is not an ideal sonic environment. Plenty of other reasons why this will suck for this material, but go ahead and try it out and let us know.

I strayed from the v30 57 for years, but now I am back 100%. It just sounds like home to my ears. I really like using (2) 57s in parallel or 90 degrees- placement and decent preamps are the key.
 
crankyrayhanky said:
The LDC backed off is going to pick up more of your room, which I assume is not an ideal sonic environment.
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I would assume that if you're using a cardioid mic, you'd probably need to place the mic about 15-20 cm away from the cabinet, instead of the usual 0.5 cm everyone uses for recording metal. That 15-20 cm should be close enough to the cabinet that the room does not contribute at all to the recorded signal. So the room should not be a problem.
 
Kraku said:
I would assume that if you're using a cardioid mic, you'd probably need to place the mic about 15-20 cm away from the cabinet, instead of the usual 0.5 cm everyone uses for recording metal. That 15-20 cm should be close enough to the cabinet that the room does not contribute at all to the recorded signal. So the room should not be a problem.
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Take a blaring 4x12 cab, close mic with a 57. Now move that set up to different rooms in your house- there is a big difference.
Using a LDC and backing it off accentuates the environment. This could be good for airy solos, but for metal rhythm yuck.

But I'm open to hearing the evidence
 
crankyrayhanky said:
Take a blaring 4x12 cab, close mic with a 57. Now move that set up to different rooms in your house- there is a big difference.
Using a LDC and backing it off accentuates the environment. This could be good for airy solos, but for metal rhythm yuck.

But I'm open to hearing the evidence
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Define "close mic". How close exactly?
 
Kraku said:
Low end also should not be a problem. The 10" speaker can easily produce low end frequencies. That's why 10" speakers are usually used in bass cabinets.
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Fair. Maybe I should have said a broader range of frequencies more suited for electric guitar.
 
V30's are not biting sounding speakers? That's the first I've ever heard that. I find them very biting and upper mid present. Perfect for metal. If you got some really good sounding V30's they will have all those qualities without sounding harsh or fatiguing. Best speaker ever made IMO.
 
311boogieman said:
Fair. Maybe I should have said a broader range of frequencies more suited for electric guitar.
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That is true, but even so in a mix the metal guitar is always paired with an electric bass that doubles what the guitar is playing. The guitar usually deliver only the lower mids, mids and high frequencies, and never any of the low frequencies. So in that sense the guitar cab speaker does not need to deliver any low frequencies.
 
Kraku said:
Low end also should not be a problem. The 10" speaker can easily produce low end frequencies. That's why 10" speakers are usually used in bass cabinets.
Click to expand...

Why don't you record some 10" speakers and find out. :ROFLMAO:

Kraku said:
That is true, but even so in a mix the metal guitar is always paired with an electric bass that doubles what the guitar is playing. The guitar usually deliver only the lower mids, mids and high frequencies, and never any of the low frequencies. So in that sense the guitar cab speaker does not need to deliver any low frequencies.
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That's not the purpose of the electric bass in a metal recording. That's the purpose of the bass in pop music.

The bass and guitar combine to make "the guitar sound."
 
I always thought mic'ing up 1x12 and 2x12 cabs is a good idea and overlooked for metal, in that they naturally HPF and LPF the frequency spectrum compared to 4x12s. Note I didn't say replace a 4x12 but to strategically use them for layering, doubling, etc.
 
Smash said:
I like close micd sound. I fought it for a bit but it is best. I like redbacks to bring a balance that v30 doesnt.
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I like a mixture of close mic'ed and room mic'ed so I can blend them. But close mic'ing a decently loud amp and good speakers with a 57 is just too dang easy and a proven great sound so I sometimes laugh when people try to reinvent the wheel. The room mic sound is just for a little extra ambience and depth to the tone.
 
It's not just about putting a mic in front of the speaker.

Different parts of the speaker sound different.

There isn't a single imperfect overused suboptimal method.

It is an art.

Multiple mics catch more of the speaker. And mixing the mics and speaker position cancels some and captures more of the frequencies.
 
Kraku said:
Low end also should not be a problem. The 10" speaker can easily produce low end frequencies. That's why 10" speakers are usually used in bass cabinets.
Click to expand...
The 10" speaker is used in bass cabs not because of its ability to reproduce low frequencies. It is used in bass cabs because you can fit more on them in a smaller box. Low end is produced by the surface area of the speakers. Do some math and use the pi button on your calculator. An 8x10 cab has more speaker surface area that a 2x18 cab, let alone a 2x15. Same is true with pizza. You get more pizza by getting more smaller pizzas than you do with one big one. That's why you record a 4x12. Even if each individual speaker is not producing the low end, the total of all the speakers will, and the mics will pick it up (low end is rather omnidirectional).
 
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