Metallica’s Rigs 2023 tour

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nightlight said:
Great clips, @VESmedic . I'd say the quality of the IRs you're using (and I am aware that you have access to the studios of Colin Richardson, among others) have a large role to do with how good those sound.

This is the Angle Severe preset on the Axe FXIII with some IRs I purchased from Ownhammer. Night and day difference compared to yours, but keep in mind that they were a quantum leap in comparison to the ones I was using earlier.

It's in a mix that's unfortunately of higher volume than the next one. And it's a terrible, terrible mix, with the snare getting swallowed up by the kick, which is all click.



This one is an Engl Savage 120 (a real amp) into a different IR (unfortunately) in a mix that is unfortunately for a different song and a much lower volume:



I'm not sure either of them have a blanket over the speaker sound (it can get quite difficult when the volumes are different), but I don't think this fight goes to the real amp. EDIT: Or maybe I'm wrong. I uploaded the actual audio file to Soundcloud and the mix is better, so hey, don't shoot me. I'm more in the camp of "This one today, that one tomorrow" when it comes to gear.
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What you said is true, and I’ll be honest the IR I used for that 5150 and 5153 axe fx clip is an IR from “a somebody”, but at the same time, it’s just a simple 57 on a recto cabinet, that’s it! This is a perfect example of why I preach spending time finding the right spot etc, because a single 57 should be more than enough, and it is in my opinion. I also have a room that’s tuned really well and great monitoring. I’m not saying I can make all these sounds on my own with no help, that’s for sure! But at the same time, it’s really just about trial and error and learning what works in a mix and what doesn’t. These are very bright, but they would be just barely bright enough for a modern metal mix, I promise you. Atleast from the producers I like anyways, which is often not the dark, murky, soft sounding tones people go after nowadays either.

I’ve never ever been a fan of ownhammer. People may think I’m crazy etc, but then you hear an actually great sounding IR from someone that knows what he’s doing, and it’s like oh…. THATS what it supposed to sound like. They are far, far too dark to be actually used in a real production in my opinion. No one I know would ever, ever use those, it is what it is. But if people like them, so be it. But most IR’s available commercially are just too fucking dark, these guys are afraid to get the mic right up on the cone. It’s ALWAYS easier to take high end out of your guitar tone and make it sound natural than it is to try and add back in what wasn’t there in the first place, which you get by micing right up on the cone, moving centimeters at a time off of it to find the tone you are looking for. There’s very few of those out there in my opinion, however:

The IR’s I used in my entire mix I posted are all commercially available IR’s: titan audio. These are Zach’s from whitechapels IR’s he made. Those are the only other ones I use, along with EAS IR’s as well. But the one I posted in my 5150 and 5153 clip is my favorite for sure. I would strongly suggest if you like some of those tones, to check out titan audio’s IR’s. He learned everything he knows and uses the same gear as the engineer/producer of the IR I was using in the 5150 and 5153 clips.
 
VESmedic said:
What you said is true, and I’ll be honest the IR I used for that 5150 and 5153 axe fx clip is an IR from “a somebody”, but at the same time, it’s just a simple 57 on a recto cabinet, that’s it! This is a perfect example of why I preach spending time finding the right spot etc, because a single 57 should be more than enough, and it is in my opinion. I also have a room that’s tuned really well and great monitoring. I’m not saying I can make all these sounds on my own with no help, that’s for sure! But at the same time, it’s really just about trial and error and learning what works in a mix and what doesn’t. These are very bright, but they would be just barely bright enough for a modern metal mix, I promise you. Atleast from the producers I like anyways, which is often not the dark, murky, soft sounding tones people go after nowadays either.

I’ve never ever been a fan of ownhammer. People may think I’m crazy etc, but then you hear an actually great sounding IR from someone that knows what he’s doing, and it’s like oh…. THATS what it supposed to sound like. They are far, far too dark to be actually used in a real production in my opinion. No one I know would ever, ever use those, it is what it is. But if people like them, so be it. But most IR’s available commercially are just too fucking dark, these guys are afraid to get the mic right up on the cone. It’s ALWAYS easier to take high end out of your guitar tone and make it sound natural than it is to try and add back in what wasn’t there in the first place, which you get by micing right up on the cone, moving centimeters at a time off of it to find the tone you are looking for. There’s very few of those out there in my opinion, however:

The IR’s I used in my entire mix I posted are all commercially available IR’s: titan audio. These are Zach’s from whitechapels IR’s he made. Those are the only other ones I use, along with EAS IR’s as well. But the one I posted in my 5150 and 5153 clip is my favorite for sure. I would strongly suggest if you like some of those tones, to check out titan audio’s IR’s. He learned everything he knows and uses the same gear as the engineer/producer of the IR I was using in the 5150 and 5153 clips.
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Record your Herbert witg DT though the Marshall BV cab for me , I’d like to hear it
 
If modelers were 100% all the way there, wouldn't the tube amp industry die overnight? I think they are very close. In fact, I think clean, lead, and bass sounds are there. Something just doesn't hit right with high gain rhythm. Coulda been user error. Hated mine so I gave it away lol (AXE III). Spent around 10 hours or so fucking with it. I guess it does the br00tZ tone according to you guys. Those tones, digital or tube, don't appeal to me in any way. I'm in no way loyal to tube amps either. I'd love to have a box that has every great tone ever. The Kemper sounded better to my ears but was still a little off.
 
VESmedic said:
What you said is true, and I’ll be honest the IR I used for that 5150 and 5153 axe fx clip is an IR from “a somebody”, but at the same time, it’s just a simple 57 on a recto cabinet, that’s it! This is a perfect example of why I preach spending time finding the right spot etc, because a single 57 should be more than enough, and it is in my opinion. I also have a room that’s tuned really well and great monitoring. I’m not saying I can make all these sounds on my own with no help, that’s for sure! But at the same time, it’s really just about trial and error and learning what works in a mix and what doesn’t. These are very bright, but they would be just barely bright enough for a modern metal mix, I promise you. Atleast from the producers I like anyways, which is often not the dark, murky, soft sounding tones people go after nowadays either.

I’ve never ever been a fan of ownhammer. People may think I’m crazy etc, but then you hear an actually great sounding IR from someone that knows what he’s doing, and it’s like oh…. THATS what it supposed to sound like. They are far, far too dark to be actually used in a real production in my opinion. No one I know would ever, ever use those, it is what it is. But if people like them, so be it. But most IR’s available commercially are just too fucking dark, these guys are afraid to get the mic right up on the cone. It’s ALWAYS easier to take high end out of your guitar tone and make it sound natural than it is to try and add back in what wasn’t there in the first place, which you get by micing right up on the cone, moving centimeters at a time off of it to find the tone you are looking for. There’s very few of those out there in my opinion, however:

The IR’s I used in my entire mix I posted are all commercially available IR’s: titan audio. These are Zach’s from whitechapels IR’s he made. Those are the only other ones I use, along with EAS IR’s as well. But the one I posted in my 5150 and 5153 clip is my favorite for sure. I would strongly suggest if you like some of those tones, to check out titan audio’s IR’s. He learned everything he knows and uses the same gear as the engineer/producer of the IR I was using in the 5150 and 5153 clips.
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I can’t find these IRs you referenced from your clips?

https://www.titanaudioproject.com/shop/ir-bundles
 
It's funny how so many people just hear what they want to hear. Like... why wouldn't the Axe FX be good enough? LOL. It's not 1997 anymore. Computers are no longer beige, LOL.

So many people come in to try one with predispositions. Man, if it sounds good, it's good.

I get it. We all love the romantic notion of playing an amp that's loud, pushing air, and burns to touch, LOL, but it is what it is: romanticizaon. Stuff being older doesn't automatically make it better.
 
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Tone Monster said:
If modelers were 100% all the way there, wouldn't the tube amp industry die overnight?
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No because contrary to what a lot of people think, it's not JUST about the tone. Firing up a tube amp, turning a few knobs, and getting a walloping is an experience that is unique to physical amps. It feels good to our human perceptions to have the real thing and physically play it. I'm not here to argue which sounds better but no one can deny the experience is different and that is a fact.

I plan on picking up an Axe III (or IV) eventually because I'm curious, and my last attempt was with a Pod HD500. If I can run a high end modeler through my 2150 and it delivers, then I could see downsizing to just a few heads and being happy.
 
The biggest thing that bothers me about modeling complaints, the thing that to me, instantly flags those opinions as having come from people who don't have sufficient experience to form a respectable opinion, are the people who talk down about "modeling" by describing some specific modeled tone they heard or dialed in. That's not how modeling works. "Modeling" as a concept is not made from any singular algorithm. It doesn't have any inherent tonal qualities. It doens't inherently have more or less sag than tube amps, or more or less bass, or more or less "muffled treble," etc. Some specific older modelers used to have intrinsic tonal characteristics (and even some current gen devices, but not the best stuff), but by and large that is no longer the case.

Basically, any opinion that goes something like "I don't like 'modeling' as a concept because I heard a modeled tone that sounds like X and I didn't like it therefore modeling as a whole is bad" is instantly discountable, because again, modeling doesn't have an intrinsic sound. In that case, you might as well say "I don't like shoes because once I tried on a pair that didn't fit." It's not that the entire concept of "shoes" is flawed and always worse than going barefoot, it's that you tried on a shoe that didn't fit. Chances are there's a pair of shoes out there somewhere that you'll like.

The other thing is that I'd bet most guitar players don't even understand where "modeling" stops and the effect of listening through an FRFR or PA system vs a guitar cab starts. I'd be willing to bet that the vast, vast majority of complaints about modeling as a concept come from somebody not liking what their tone sounds like through PA or FRFR speakers, which is how most people experience modelers. These people don't even realize they'd have the same complaints if they listened to their tube rigs mic'd at a distance and reproduced through those same FRFR speakers.


Tone Monster said:
If modelers were 100% all the way there, wouldn't the tube amp industry die overnight?
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I don't think so. This is music we're talking about, so "inspiration" will always matter, and some people are simply more inspired by big heavy tolex covered boxes that get hot and loud and smell like burning dust and have chicken head knobs or plexiglass panels or whatever. I love that stuff too but personally I find just as much inspiration in the slick, infinite-options future spaceship feel of the best modelers and adjusting tone with an app on my PC, but I understand that some people just don't jive with that approach, which is fine.
 
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TheGreatGreen said:
The biggest thing that bothers me about modeling complaints, the thing that to me, instantly flags those opinions as having come from people who don't have sufficient experience to form a respectable opinion, are the people who talk down about "modeling" by describing some specific modeled tone they heard or dialed in.
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I'm always amused by, when starting a thread about modellers, there are people commenting stuff like "The Katana is cool and all, but can't hold a candle to my Uberschall"...
 
gtrwun said:
This thread just keeps delivering the same thing……
Over and over again.
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And the responses are going to keep being the same as long as the anti-modeling folks keep spouting the same ignorant nonsense.
 
gtrwun said:
Whatever you say brother.
I knew you’d bite.
Have a great day and weekend.
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You knew I'd "bite?" Lol sure man, your superior 4D chess playing tactician brain totally walked me into a trap when you made that catty comment that contributed nothing to the discussion and I called out how stupid and obvious it was. I feel so owned.
 
TheGreatGreen said:
You knew I'd "bite?" Lol sure man, your superior 4D chess playing tactician brain totally walked me into a trap when you made that catty comment that contributed nothing to the discussion and I called out how stupid and obvious it was. I feel so owned.
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“TheGreatGrump”

It’s Friday. Can’t you find some joy in that at least?
 
gtrwun said:
“TheGreatGrump”

It’s Friday. Can’t you find some joy in that at least?
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I mean, what did you expect someone to say? You didn’t contribute a thing after all this pretty productive conversation. Just “this thread keeps delivering the same thing over and over again.”. Feel free to try and rebuke anything I’ve said or shown.
 
VESmedic said:
I mean, what did you expect someone to say? You didn’t contribute a thing after all this pretty productive conversation. Just “this thread keeps delivering the same thing over and over again.”. Feel free to try and rebuke anything I’ve said or shown.
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It’s not “productive” to keep saying the same thing using different words.
That’s my opinion.
I’m not going to rebuke anything you said. I never said I didn’t agree as a matter of fact.
I’ve never used any of these newfangled digital gadgets and I don’t recall ever stating I think they suck or sound like shit? Maybe I have?
It’s just an opinion. Not a big deal in the scheme of things.
 
gtrwun said:
It’s not “productive” to keep saying the same thing using different words.
That’s my opinion.
I’m not going to rebuke anything you said. I never said I didn’t agree as a matter of fact.
I’ve never used any of these newfangled digital gadgets and I don’t recall ever stating I think they suck or sound like shit? Maybe I have?
It’s just an opinion. Not a big deal in the scheme of things.
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I don’t believe I posted just words, I posted tones directly related to the nonsense that was posted about “digital sounds like a blanket over the speakers”. I’d say that’s productive hopefully to people that seem to think that may be true, when it’s surely not. I don’t know what you did or didn’t do, which is why I’m not sure why you are in this thread commenting at all. You’ve never “used these newfangled digital gadgets”, aren’t sure if you have or have not said they sound like shit, so why are you in this thread? Serious question.
 
VESmedic said:
I don’t believe I posted just words, I posted tones directly related to the nonsense that was posted about “digital sounds like a blanket over the speakers”. I’d say that’s productive hopefully to people that seem to think that may be true, when it’s surely not. I don’t know what you did or didn’t do, which is why I’m not sure why you are in this thread commenting at all. You’ve never “used these newfangled digital gadgets”, aren’t sure if you have or have not said they sound like shit, so why are you in this thread? Serious question.
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Because I belong to this forum. If you don’t like my comments then feel free to ignore them.
Serious answer.
 
gtrwun said:
Because I belong to this forum. If you don’t like my comments then feel free to ignore them.
Serious answer.
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So your idea of being a part of these forums is to go around to threads you’re apparently not interested in and look down your nose at them while you drive by post stuff like “hmm well you people certainly aren’t performing up to my lofty standards of entertainment” like you’re some foppish medieval lord with one of those dickhead haircuts scoffing at peasants? Haha ok dude.

Maybe instead of getting all defensive with your “if you don’t like it you can leave it” speech, how about taking some responsibility for your posts that don’t help anybody and start saying things worth reading instead.

Have a great day and weekend.
 
TheGreatGreen said:
So your idea of being a part of these forums is to go around to threads you’re apparently not interested in and look down your nose at them while you drive by post stuff like “hmm well you people certainly aren’t performing up to my lofty standards of entertainment” like you’re some foppish medieval lord with one of those dickhead haircuts scoffing at peasants? Haha ok dude.

Maybe instead of getting all defensive with your “if you don’t like it you can leave it” speech, how about taking some responsibility for your posts that don’t help anybody and start saying things worth reading instead.

Have a great day and weekend.
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That’s an interesting take, but certainly not based in reality.

Thanks, I will.
???
 
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