Mic'ing a cab VS. Captures (using a mic) - are they essentially the same?

[Metalhex]

For recording purposes, I wonder if i can just capture my rig at full volume once, as opposed to recording a whole album at full volume.

Would using a capture device with a microphone be exactly the same tone as mic'ing my cab (assuming all things set up equally mic placement, etc.. ) on playback in my DAW, would both tones be nearly identical or way different?

I have zero skill in doing either but I'm wondering, what are the pros and cons of each?

 

[cardinal]

In theory, yes. In practice, it depends on the capture tech etc. But it should be damn close.

 

[GJgo]

While I haven't captured yet, I have learned that for recording an album the good modern digital solutions are very good and far easier to get right than micing a cab. I had to mic my gear because of my ego of having all the high end stuff, and at the end of the day I would have saved a ton of money & possibly liked the album tone better with a good digital setup. Hate to say it but there you go.

 

[BenoA]

I agree with @cardinal @GJgo depending on what you use, you should get very close.

I did some experimentation a few years back and ended very confused in between the mic or the direct tracks. If you plan doing a blend, make sure you identify clearly your recordings. Ear fatigue is real and in my case, I was totally lost in all the test tracks. In the end, I managed to sort it out by using the time stamp on my wave files.

 

[GJgo]

Here are a couple tests I did during the process. This was Amplitube and not a capture of my rig, but still..

Keep in mind here, the plug ins were just the first thing we threw at it for playback (Mark IV and Recto cab) & were not dialed in at all.





Also, here's a host of mics. Mic & speaker make by far the biggest difference, and mic placement changes as small as 1/8" audibly change the recorded tone. WAY easier to get it wrong than get it right.

 

[Metalhex]

Here are a couple tests I did during the process. This was Amplitube and not a capture of my rig, but still..

Keep in mind here, the plug ins were just the first thing we threw at it for playback (Mark IV and Recto cab) & were not dialed in at all.





Also, here's a host of mics. Mic & speaker make by far the biggest difference, and mic placement changes as small as 1/8" audibly change the recorded tone. WAY easier to get it wrong than get it right.

Thank you for that!

I understand when recording DI then you can re-amp and try different amaps until you find what fits the mix but can you do the same thing with a modeler? Like record your track then cycle through different amps to see what fits best while the tracks is playing back?

 

[GJgo]

Yes- the direct input is straight from the guitar so all tone can be tweaked on reamp runs. Super useful for SO many reasons. The reamps can be real amps, modelers, PC based plugins etc.. When testing I'll tweak mid-stream and listen through the monitors, then once I find what I like do the final track recording.

I find the best tone for the full mix is often not what you'd expect. My ego said that I was recording the album with my IIC+ and it was going to be a god-like tone that people nutted for, and that turned out to be wrong for so many reasons. Pretty humbling.

 

[DanTravis62]

Generally speaking, when I record in real studios I prefer to use real amps, but there's no reason why you couldn't use a model/capture/etc for one.

If you get it dialed in well enough, there's very little difference.

And like @GJgo says, always take a DI so you have options later on.

I find the best tone for the full mix is often not what you'd expect. My ego said that I was recording the album with my IIC+ and it was going to be a god-like tone that people nutted for, and that turned out to be wrong for so many reasons. Pretty humbling.

At least for my handful of experiences with a microphone in front of a 2C (i've never owned one, unfortunately) I find that they sound unbelievable by themselves but are pretty difficult to dial in with a full mix with drums, vocals, etc

In fact, I think one of the reasons the metallic tones are so iconic is that the way the drums are recorded (esp on MOP and justice) with tons of low end, even on the snare, leaves a ton of space for the high end of the 2C+ to fill everything out

 

[tjnx]

To add to this, if you go with a DI note that not all DI boxes are created equal. Your interface may suffice but others can have an effect on tone that may be the difference in what you're looking for.

Regardless, I would focus on doing whatever it takes to get a good performance during tracking, as that will make everything sit better later. You can track with a DI and reamp if you prefer through a mic and cab. Invest in strings, low-latency anything, and an accurate tuner.

Many people will write pre-compositions then re-record it later. The point is to get a good song structure first then do the expensive stuff later. A good song will still be great if you record it on bad equipment.

I wish I would have recorded several scratch takes in the initial phase to get a good composition rather than obsess over mic placement and the right IR. My goof around songs that were not as professionally recorded were better than the ones that were more pro simply because I misplaced emphasis on the tone vs the song.

Here's a quick shootout of DI boxes if you're interested. I like the countryman and rndi-m for color on distorted guitars, but I just use my interface for now. Having a good clean DI really helps with the tone on amp sims too.

 

[DanTravis62]

To add to this, if you go with a DI note that not all DI boxes are created equal. Your interface may suffice but others can have an effect on tone that may be the difference in what you're looking for.

Regardless, I would focus on doing whatever it takes to get a good performance during tracking, as that will make everything sit better later. You can track with a DI and reamp if you prefer through a mic and cab. Invest in strings, low-latency anything, and an accurate tuner.

Many people will write pre-compositions then re-record it later. The point is to get a good song structure first then do the expensive stuff later. A good song will still be great if you record it on bad equipment.

I wish I would have recorded several scratch takes in the initial phase to get a good composition rather than obsess over mic placement and the right IR. My goof around songs that were not as professionally recorded were better than the ones that were more pro simply because I misplaced emphasis on the tone vs the song.

Here's a quick shootout of DI boxes if you're interested. I like the countryman and rndi-m for color on distorted guitars, but I just use my interface for now. Having a good clean DI really helps with the tone on amp sims too.

This is all great advice - especially the third one.

I do every single one of my songs, including every single instrument, including drums and keys with Tabit (it's like 1990s guitar pro) before I record anything for real.

I guarantee you it's a big factor in my demos tend to sound pretty good.

 

[tjnx]

This is all great advice - especially the third one.

I do every single one of my songs, including every single instrument, including drums and keys with Tabit (it's like 1990s guitar pro) before I record anything for real.

I guarantee you it's a big factor in my demos tend to sound pretty good.

Hey I remember Tabit! Thats a great way of doing it, guitar pro is good too. Makes it easier to share with your bandmates too

 

[DanTravis62]

Hey I remember Tabit! Thats a great way of doing it, guitar pro is good too. Makes it easier to share with your bandmates too

It works great. I prefer the "playing the song scrolls it across the screen" rather than the lux or guitar pro sheet music design.

That's why I still use it.

It's especially helpful for drum programming

 

[Metalhex]

To add to this, if you go with a DI note that not all DI boxes are created equal. Your interface may suffice but others can have an effect on tone that may be the difference in what you're looking for.

Regardless, I would focus on doing whatever it takes to get a good performance during tracking, as that will make everything sit better later. You can track with a DI and reamp if you prefer through a mic and cab. Invest in strings, low-latency anything, and an accurate tuner.

Many people will write pre-compositions then re-record it later. The point is to get a good song structure first then do the expensive stuff later. A good song will still be great if you record it on bad equipment.

I wish I would have recorded several scratch takes in the initial phase to get a good composition rather than obsess over mic placement and the right IR. My goof around songs that were not as professionally recorded were better than the ones that were more pro simply because I misplaced emphasis on the tone vs the song.

Here's a quick shootout of DI boxes if you're interested. I like the countryman and rndi-m for color on distorted guitars, but I just use my interface for now. Having a good clean DI really helps with the tone on amp sims too.

Cool video! What I'm doing currently is just recording scratch guitars because ai am still composing and piecing parts together. So I'm not close to recording my real guitar tracks yet. I'm actually just using my Boss Katana plugged into usb and using that tone for composing.

I do have a Focusrite Solo 3rd gen but...the more I'm typing the more I'm thinking that I don't know what I'll actually be doing yet, haha. I may end up getting a modeler. I like the idea of a modeler better than using plugins. Mic'ing my amp sounds like a fun labor of love but as said above, for as long as it takes me to get good recorded tones, it still may not sound great in the mix.

Also, fwiw I have recorded DI into the solo and used some captures from NAM in the past, it was ok., but I like the idea of using a modeler and finding a good tone I like, or even to build my own tone, that way the tweaking does more tone shaping than the eq on NAM does imo.

 

[tjnx]

Cool video! What I'm doing currently is just recording scratch guitars because ai am still composing and piecing parts together. So I'm not close to recording my real guitar tracks yet. I'm actually just using my Boss Katana plugged into usb and using that tone for composing.

I do have a Focusrite Solo 3rd gen but...the more I'm typing the more I'm thinking that I don't know what I'll actually be doing yet, haha. I may end up getting a modeler. I like the idea of a modeler better than using plugins. Mic'ing my amp sounds like a fun labor of love but as said above, for as long as it takes me to get good recorded tones, it still may not sound great in the mix.

Also, fwiw I have recorded DI into the solo and used some captures from NAM in the past, it was ok., but I like the idea of using a modeler and finding a good tone I like, or even to build my own tone, that way the tweaking does more tone shaping than the eq on NAM does imo.

I'd say whatever gets you there is the answer. You're already ahead with the interface and nam now its just finding a preference for your workflow.

I have the big tonex pedal that lets me record both the modeled tone and a DI, the more expensive modelers do this too. This is kind of the best of both worlds as you can track your DI while monitoring through the modeler with low latency. So you record both at the same time. If you want to keep the modeled tone great, if not you have the DI to fall back on. This is assuming your interface has at least 2 inputs.

You can try helix native and neural dsp amp sims in your daw too if you want to get a taste of the line6 modelers and the Quad Cortex. It may help narrow it down a bit if youre stuck

 

[cobrahead1030]

I’ve damn near tried it all through the years.

Where I’ve landed for DIY recording is running my amp into a cab (usually my v30 loaded Mesa) because it sounds & feels better in the room. Then also running a reactive load IR setup for the actual recorded signal.

Once I dial in what sounds good in the room, I’ll do a few takes & adjust to taste based on the playback.

 

[BenoA]

Cool video! What I'm doing currently is just recording scratch guitars because ai am still composing and piecing parts together. So I'm not close to recording my real guitar tracks yet. I'm actually just using my Boss Katana plugged into usb and using that tone for composing.

I do have a Focusrite Solo 3rd gen but...the more I'm typing the more I'm thinking that I don't know what I'll actually be doing yet, haha. I may end up getting a modeler. I like the idea of a modeler better than using plugins. Mic'ing my amp sounds like a fun labor of love but as said above, for as long as it takes me to get good recorded tones, it still may not sound great in the mix.

As you have an audio interface, I'd run the line out from your Katana to it instead of using the USB of the Katana. Way easier for monitoring and final mixing. That's like 80% of my videos are done on my YT channel

 

[2dor]

A quality fullrig NAM profile of your gear/guitar chain will be indistinguishable from the real deal imho.

 

[Metalhex]

As you have an audio interface, I'd run the line out from your Katana to it instead of using the USB of the Katana. Way easier for monitoring and final mixing. That's like 80% of my videos are done on my YT channel

Oh I never thought of that I think it's worth a try. But how exactly is it easier or what makes it different?

 

[BenoA]

Oh I never thought of that I think it's worth a try. But how exactly is it easier or what makes it different?

Well, using the USB makes your amp the interface and on Windows you have to monitor through the headphones jack of the Kat. I prefer the simplicity of my 8 inputs Behringer as the main interface and have a Katana always connected to one of the input. I can monitor through my studio monitors too. While enjoying the amp in the room sound. Except if you plan using two tracks L/R from the Katana USB, I record everything in mono from the line out and I have done lots of tests and it sounds as good as the USB, no difference as they share the same output settings. I even prefer the line out as the signal is stronger too. If you have a Gen3 you could use the headphones jack as it is now a true stereo ouput.

I could go "on and on" on those amps as I have been supporting a large community on FB, so I am limiting my reply but let me know if you have other questions.

 

[Metalhex]

Well, using the USB makes your amp the interface and on Windows you have to monitor through the headphones jack of the Kat. I prefer the simplicity of my 8 inputs Behringer as the main interface and have a Katana always connected to one of the input. I can monitor through my studio monitors too. While enjoying the amp in the room sound. Except if you plan using two tracks L/R from the Katana USB, I record everything in mono from the line out and I have done lots of tests and it sounds as good as the USB, no difference as they share the same output settings. I even prefer the line out as the signal is stronger too. If you have a Gen3 you could use the headphones jack as it is now a true stereo ouput.

I could go "on and on" on those amps as I have been supporting a large community on FB, so I am limiting my reply but let me know if you have other questions.

Oh I see. I should clarify that it is my Focusrite Solo that is the 3rd gen model....my Katana is actually a first gen. I have it plugged in usb to the PC and playback on the PC speakers. I also have krk rokit 5's but I find that I don't need to use them since I am not tracking anything final yet. I'm still composing songs so I just record whatever using the katana.

My problem is I get excited for when the day comes when I'm finally ready to record some serious tracks and then I start to think about how I'm going to do that. There are soo many options. But what usually happens is I get option paralysis and end up not making a decision. I have a habit of talking myself out of things.

Here's an example of my thought process:

-My ego is telling me to mic up my amp and cabs so that i can say its MY gear being recorded. Ok I'd have to get a 50ft mic cable to run it to the other room. That's tedious especially since im not skilled in mic'ing, so I'll just capture it instead (which still requires skill) Many people said they've done the same thing and ended up going with a modeler or captured tone and got even better results for their mix and we're happier than micing their amp.
- Ok then I will go the modeler route. Do I want one that can record DI simultaneously? Capture too just incase? There's so many options. I have my Katana, isn't that essentially the same as a modeler using the Tone Studio? So what's the point of buying a modeler? Well because newer ones sound better....ok so do I want a newer Boss like a GX-10 or something else?
- But wait there are all these plugins I Can use, negating the need to buy a modeler. Super convenient. There are even free plugins that sound good, but I just don't want to go that route.
- Ok so get a modeler, but which one? I really want to try to AM4 but can't bring myself to schlep out $700 yet. (I know, Fractal are releasing plugins now). Should I get a Mooer ge250 or something like that? Well alot of people say they don't sound great while other people say you won't notice if it's real or not in a mix.
- But, but, but, my amps!! So then why do I have all these amps considering I never play out, if I am not going to use it to record?
-etc, etc, etc..

TL;DR - I have option paralysis while gassing for a modeler!