Mics Vs. impulse Responses...

[petethorn]

https://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/I ... onses.aspx

this month's edition of my "The Working Guitarist" column...

 

[vinirosa]

Hi Pete,

That's an awesome column. Congrats.

I never tried IRs because I have my 1x12 Boogie cab with my SM57 always connected to my amps on my studio. But I'll give it a try since it's such a cool thing have my amp sounds without the hassle of bothering other people with the high volumes of a crancked amp.

I don't have the Suhr Iso neither the Faustine. Do you think it's gonna work if I do this: guitar to amp's input, then fx send to G-Force's input, then G- Force's left output to return BUT right output to my API mic pre. Of course I must have my 1x12 cab connected to my amp but I can have my master volume on the amp on zero, so I have no sound on my 1x12.

Thanks!

Vinicius Rosa.

 

[mikehickey]

Great info there, I have to admit I was wondering what "IRs" were after seeing it posted here on RT...now I know!

 

[reverymike]

Stupid question. . .what is the difference between an IR (like the ones Pete is talking about), and something like a Palmer speaker simulator?

 

[petethorn]

Hi guys- really good questions actually-- on the Gforce thing, yes it'll work- sort of. You won't be getting the real full tone of your amp, only the preamp. Best to figure out a way to get a line out POST-speaker output. You'll also probably have a ground loop situation, running that way, something easily solvable with either the Suhr or Faustine boxes, as they both have ground switches.


The difference between a speaker sim like a Palmer and an IR is an analog speaker sim is basically an eq curve. Mimicking the eq curve of a guitar speaker. Which can be cool, but- An IR actually digitally captures what a certain cab, mic, mic position, and mic pre sound like. Yes you get the EQ curve but much more, Including the "air" around the sound and resonance/tone of the cab, etc. It's just more detailed.

 

[sinestro]

Great column! I was just trying to explain this to a friend, you just made it easy as sending a link.

I've also had good results using a Mesa V-twin pedal straight to the interface with the Redwirez IR's. I would imagine it would be just as good as any other preamp, you just don't get any power amp simulations that way.

 

[vinirosa]

Hi guys- really good questions actually-- on the Gforce thing, yes it'll work- sort of. You won't be getting the real full tone of your amp, only the preamp. Best to figure out a way to get a line out POST-speaker output. You'll also probably have a ground loop situation, running that way, something easily solvable with either the Suhr or Faustine boxes, as they both have ground switches.


The difference between a speaker sim like a Palmer and an IR is an analog speaker sim is basically an eq curve. Mimicking the eq curve of a guitar speaker. Which can be cool, but- An IR actually digitally captures what a certain cab, mic, mic position, and mic pre sound like. Yes you get the EQ curve but much more, Including the "air" around the sound and resonance/tone of the cab, etc. It's just more detailed.

Thanks Pete. I will probably get the Suhr. I live in Rio de Janeiro, so it's probably easier to ship the Suhr Iso to Brazil. The Faustine is heavier and I would have to place an order and it would take a lot of time to get it here.

Cheers,

Vinicius Rosa.

 

[reverymike]

Thanks for the response Pete! I'm going to read up on using IRs live. . .sounds like a cool way to blend in tones with the mic'd signal.

 

[Axe-Man]

I have run tube preamps into my Eleven Rack's IRs (cab/mic sims) and use a bit of pre and post EQ and room reverb for a great direct tone.

This method really works for me and I'm surprised it's not as commonplace as it is.

I imagine the IRs on the Axe II would sound quite a bit better than the 11R but it doesn't sound shabby! I find a noticable improvement (personally) compared to just using digital models of preamps etc from the current crop of modellers.

I'm hoping my DAR preamp with the 10K IRs ships soon and I can experiment with these super high end IRs as well.

 

[philb]

Cool article! thanks for the comparison clip. It shows that each method can be very useful.

 

[gabaghoul]

One more question...If you are using the V-Speaker out from the Faustine DX2, would you really need to use any IR's in your DAW at all?

 

[BYTOR]

Another reason to own any of the Axe Fx units (apart from the great sounds) is the fact that it forces you to get up to speed with all these IRs and some of the other latest sound/recording advancements.
I own and love tube amps but an Axe Fx is a must own item in my opinion.

 

[Rogue]

Hey Pete. Thanks for sharing the article and making the clips.

Have you ever compared the direct out of the Faustine to the Suhr line out?

 

[Mark Day]

Very cool article Pete. Awesome that you provided clips!

Mark

 

[Anonymous]

I find that good IRs are the difference between the best AxeFX recordings I hear and the ones that are just ok...

Steve

 

[mixohoytian]

cool thanks Pete
I'm in the process of trying this same thing this week!

I wish I knew about this 2 years ago before I spent a fortune on an iso box...
forget the axe fx, you can record your real amp, silently!

I have a theory
there is not a ton of info on this online and I believe studio guys (gearslutz etc..) don't want to reveal too much cause they don't want to loose business

same thing with direct recording then re amping later
common knowledge now, but for 6 or more years (back around 2000) none of my studio acquaintance told me, "hey save yourself some money and record direct while you mic stuff..."

 

[mixohoytian]

are people doing this live? (with loaded down real amp heads)
bringing a laptop instead of a cab?

 

[petethorn]

One more question...If you are using the V-Speaker out from the Faustine DX2, would you really need to use any IR's in your DAW at all?

no, it'd be one or the other. The DX2 speaker sim sounds nice, it is the traditional analog Palmer-type setup... it's an eq curve, basically. IR's, IMHO, go a step further- you are getting a digital picture of what a certain speaker, cabinet (with the air and resonance as a factor), mic, mic placement, and mic pre setup sounds like. Both approaches are good! One's just got more going on. Which isn't to say that you can't get great results either way- you can. Jerry Cantrell used Palmers on the last AIC tour, and he sounded absolutely incredible in the PA.

 

[petethorn]

are people doing this live? (with loaded down real amp heads)
bringing a laptop instead of a cab?

if the tour you are on is running digital consoles, you could even just apply the IR's at the monitor and FOH desks. Digital boards all run plug-ins. So all you'd need is your amp and load box setup. I don't know if anyone does this yet- but you certainly could.

I used the Axe FX on my recent tour, into the new Atomic 50/50 and rental Marshall cabs for onstage monitoring- and I ran the 2nd set of outs to the house with Redwirez IR's. Another way to do it!

 

[mixohoytian]

are people doing this live? (with loaded down real amp heads)
bringing a laptop instead of a cab?

if the tour you are on is running digital consoles, you could even just apply the IR's at the monitor and FOH desks. Digital boards all run plug-ins. So all you'd need is your amp and load box setup. I don't know if anyone does this yet- but you certainly could.

I used the Axe FX on my recent tour, into the new Atomic 50/50 and rental Marshall cabs for onstage monitoring- and I ran the 2nd set of outs to the house with Redwirez IR's. Another way to do it!

very cool
I plan on getting an axe in the next 6 months and am praying it will work direct (live)
your statement makes me realize it should

an axe fx should not need a cab if you have good irs and the venue has a decent pa

In other words, the audience will dig it through the pa system
even if you the performer wish you had $5K power amp into two $2K speaker cabs stereo miced....

in the end you are spending all that money for some stage vibe

and