N
nitro
New member
Gear hog that wasn't the real Rudy leiran
N
nitro
New member
Rogue troll on over and look at the van halen II studio photo you see the knob/pot in the back.Have a great day.Its Sunday and football is on friends and beers.Rogue since you have nothing to do except post replies that are completely foolish,go back and read all my old posts from rig talk and others guitar sites and make a report.Game over you have no knowledge what so ever on this subject you have nothing to give.See ya.......
G
gtrwun
Well-known member
There you go. Thanks for ending this thread Dave.RACKSYSTEMS":1ksf4mlm said:
T
TrueTone500
Banned
New member
gtrwun":9p1g5ifk said:There you go. Thanks for ending this thread Dave.RACKSYSTEMS":9p1g5ifk said:
Chubtone
Well-known member
RACKSYSTEMS":16ez2chd said:
Dave,
Is there one part that was changed in Eddie's amp that you liked so much over the stock plexi part that you include it in some of your amp designs?
Did John Suhr also like this part change so much he uses in on his SL68?
mixohoytian
Member
^^^^
G
Gearhog
New member
http://wwwc.dcns.ne.jp/~epi/rudy1985.jpg
An interview with Rudy L in 1985.
An interview with Rudy L in 1985.
S
shgshg
Banned
New member
RACKSYSTEMS":3uhzlakz said:
...and /thread.
Kapo_Polenton
Well-known member
Chubtone":j1deqi1h said:
This... seeing as there were "some mods" to them, can we hear them!
Stramm8
Active member
^^^^Would be interesting to know exactly what Dave is referring to although the supposed actual specs have been presented in this thread.
Regarding the assertions made here that there were or had to be some sort of Jose-esque GAIN mod to get the tone; I guess Dave pretty well summed it up. Thanks for chiming in
Regarding the assertions made here that there were or had to be some sort of Jose-esque GAIN mod to get the tone; I guess Dave pretty well summed it up. Thanks for chiming in
S
Suhr
Member
Chubtone":1doc24fh said:
Yes I put in the obvious added part in to the SL68 as well as everything else I saw.
Why? Cause it adds a bit of bass and gain.
There were a few other "not traditional parts" that do make a difference and even though they were not the norm they were stock.
Keep in mind here that Marshall were not sticklers on what values they used across the board. It seemed like it was more a matter of "what we dont have any of those resistors? Then use this value instead !"
Basically what I remember is the front end was not unsoldered and the parts were stock but there could have been a Master at one point. I saw the amp before it was rebuilt twice and according to Ed's tech I was the last person to see it in it's original form.
Chubtone
Well-known member
Suhr":29jsl1fb said:
Thanks for the reply John. So you would say the not traditional parts that were stock were probably just a happy accident? That most of it came together by chance in that amp just based on what the assembler had available on that day?
If that is the case, it might explain why a lot of people who have extensive experience with old Super Leads might be saying, "look man, THAT sound is not in old Super Leads". The next guy might have stumbled onto a killer Super Lead by chance and said, "what do you mean, here is my amp and it nails that sound."
I know you are probably so tired of this discussion, but it's like you are one of the only guys that was allowed inside the Pharaoh's tomb and the rest of us still want to hear about it.
S
shgshg
Banned
New member
I think the big mistake many people are making is assuming that "there's a knob" is the same thing as "there's a mod".
Maybe it's just a knob. For all I know it's stuck on to the plexiglas with krazy glue.
I wonder if all the gearheads who've lost their collective minds over the placement of a mystery knob in a 1979 photo of an amp have spent the same time and energy trying to work out the tonal implications of having a 5-way switch installed in a pickup cavity...
or of having a seventh tuning peg installed on the headstock of a 6-string guitar...
Some of the things Edward Van Halen does with his gear are for absolutely no reason and have no effect whatsoever on his sound. He does them just to fuck with people.
Maybe it's just a knob. For all I know it's stuck on to the plexiglas with krazy glue.
I wonder if all the gearheads who've lost their collective minds over the placement of a mystery knob in a 1979 photo of an amp have spent the same time and energy trying to work out the tonal implications of having a 5-way switch installed in a pickup cavity...
or of having a seventh tuning peg installed on the headstock of a 6-string guitar...
Some of the things Edward Van Halen does with his gear are for absolutely no reason and have no effect whatsoever on his sound. He does them just to fuck with people.
ericsabbath
Active member
I have this mysterious early '73 50w JMP that was extensively modded with master volumes, extra tubes and a loop
the preamp circuit isn't much different from a plexi
I always thought it had several gain stages, but looks like it doesn't
just a lot more gain from the first stage
looks like a fairly old shop job as it has a lot of unusual spec components and brands that aren't that easy to find these days
it could be a Jose, but nobody seems to recognize the job
I bought it from some guy in california and he only said it had a master volume mod, but it's much more than that
most of the components were taped or painted to hide the values, but I managed to take most of that crap out and figure out the important parts of the circuit
transformers, main turret board and most pots are stock, but most of the components were swapped, although some sections have near stock values
does anyone have actual pics of Jose modded amp circuits? (specially turret board ones)
the preamp circuit isn't much different from a plexi
I always thought it had several gain stages, but looks like it doesn't
just a lot more gain from the first stage
looks like a fairly old shop job as it has a lot of unusual spec components and brands that aren't that easy to find these days
it could be a Jose, but nobody seems to recognize the job
I bought it from some guy in california and he only said it had a master volume mod, but it's much more than that
most of the components were taped or painted to hide the values, but I managed to take most of that crap out and figure out the important parts of the circuit
transformers, main turret board and most pots are stock, but most of the components were swapped, although some sections have near stock values
does anyone have actual pics of Jose modded amp circuits? (specially turret board ones)
W
WACF5150
New member
Besides the knob/pot on the back panel, has anyone noticed the cables going in & out of the amp between the chassis and the head box? What's hiding in the pack of Winston's and what's up with the wire cutter on the top of the amp?
P
paulyc
Well-known member
The amp wasn't stock. PERIOD. I've tried 6CA7 tubes in a variac'd Marshall with the bias cranked...all it does is make it quieter. There was a master volume on the back of the amp...if it was a Jose master with the diodes it clips the signal. Eddie used TWO Echoplexes back in the day, as well as the Univox EC80 echo box that gives a shit load of gain boost, and the Boss 10 band...he also stated in at least one early interview in GP that Jose did shit to his MXR pedals to boost gain and lower noise. Just changing some cathode resistors in the amp would make more gain, and cascading a Super Lead like a 2203 would pump it even more. The 6CA7s were used because they're the only EL34 type tube that would take the abuse Eddie handed them every night. It wasn't for tone.
The stuff earlier by Chubtone about Steve Vai was spot on too. Vai used Carvin X100Bs to do the Alcatrazz record with a Boss SD-1 in front of them and while it's an OK sound it ain't no VH1 epic tone. I do, however, recall Vai saying he used a Jose on one side of the stereo spectrum and the Lee Jackson on the other, which I would believe as he's really into the whole blending amps on records thing.
I will also believe that Templeman and Landee squeezed every ounce of sound onto the tape.
The dude that brought up the H&H power amps and slaving, that was only done from 1984 forward, and Bob Bradshaw claims to have invented it, having a center dry cab and the left/right cabs wet. The H&Hs were probably what VH used to power their massive PA system, so he grabbed a couple of those to use as power amps for his guitar rig...purely dumb luck.
The stuff earlier by Chubtone about Steve Vai was spot on too. Vai used Carvin X100Bs to do the Alcatrazz record with a Boss SD-1 in front of them and while it's an OK sound it ain't no VH1 epic tone. I do, however, recall Vai saying he used a Jose on one side of the stereo spectrum and the Lee Jackson on the other, which I would believe as he's really into the whole blending amps on records thing.
I will also believe that Templeman and Landee squeezed every ounce of sound onto the tape.
The dude that brought up the H&H power amps and slaving, that was only done from 1984 forward, and Bob Bradshaw claims to have invented it, having a center dry cab and the left/right cabs wet. The H&Hs were probably what VH used to power their massive PA system, so he grabbed a couple of those to use as power amps for his guitar rig...purely dumb luck.
midnightlaundry
Well-known member
Who gives a shit?.. You're talking about 70's recording.. If that rig was so great, the man would still be using it.
Mr. Willy
Well-known member
midnightlaundry":2unpnrh8 said:
Congratulations. This is one of the dumbest posts I've ever read on this forum.
midnightlaundry
Well-known member
Amp technology has left an old shitty Marshall with a Variac in the dust. Who's dumb?? You people are living old dreams of the past. Grow up.. The only reason you idiots are splitting hairs on the gear is because EVH wrote the hits, and made it sound good with his talent. If all it took was getting the gear, we'd all be one of the greatest rock players of all time.
R
Rocksoff
New member
Jose is a red herring that some people chase.
Jose wasn't known as a tone magician before VH broke through and why would Ed go to him except that he was able to get to him and Jose was probably not too expensive.
It's also pretty obvious that Jose was telling different people different things, a pedal, 2 different amp setups, master volume etc etc.
Ed was buying and selling a fair few amps around that 75/76 period and taking some of them to Jose for servicing makes sense.
Ed did not have his Marshall or other Marshall's around 1973, and he's pictured playing a Bandmaster and Ed himself has said he used to use the Bandmaster and also at home for practicing because he could do the low volume trick with it at home.
So the Marshall's probably start around 1974 and Ed bought and sold a few and he had a European one for a while that gave him the idea of using something like a Variac.
The Variac dropping the voltage, drops the power and alters the balance of the amp as Mike Soldano says to around 35 watts with the amp dimed, with the Variac dropping the voltage down to 90 volts.
So, it's not a 100 watt amp anymore and one cabinet can easily be used with it and Ed says that he sometimes dropped the voltage down below 90, depending on things.
All of that has little to do with Jose, and the knob or switch at the back of the amp could have been anything and a similar thing was not installed in Ed's other amps so whatever it was, it couldn't have been that important as if it was that important, then it would be in all of Ed's amps
I can't see the need for it to be a master volume btw (Jose's master volume diode thing just smooths out the distortion and drops the volume) because of the variac enabling dropping the amps power but still enabling the amp to be dimed and a thing like the one wire mod is not really needed to get Ed's gain level which is more than a PAF through a dimed Plexi as Mike Soldano said, but the gain level is veering more towards a 2203 but a 2203 gain level and compression isn't it and the gain level is more like a 13k pickup used with the Variac/Plexi and still getting the Plexi circuit headroom but there is more to the headroom and sustain thing .
Ed's Echoplex's are interesting because Ed bought them new when the Echoplex EP-3's were coming out with compressor circuits modelled on a MXR Dyna-Comp set to a medium type of compression.
Ed had the echo on a lot for the slight slapback echo, making the guitar sound bigger and wider and more 3D.
Ed bought a fair few Mighty Mites and even had a clear bobbin Mighty Mite in the Bee for a while, meaning that he bought a fair few Mighty Mites from Wayne Charvel and Ed has a Mighty Mite distortion in the Ibanez Destroyer in 1978 photos.
So the stock PAF stories are just that and Ed got hold of Seymour around late 1977/early 1978 to get some PAF's rewound with more wire (and therefore output) and Seymour was trying to sell the Custom (13k ceramic) as the EVH pickup until Ed stopped him.
The much later Seymour EVH pickup (9k A2) can basically be dismissed as it's way past Seymour's earlier EVH Custom pickup and I think the Seymour EVH pickup is just marketing and is so different to what Ed actually used that Seymour knows Ed would not come after him again.
So what it is so far, Plexi dropped down to 90 or less volts and being fed by a Echoplex with medium compression/sustain with snapback echo and a 13k pickup, and it's a pretty unique setup capable of gain/sustain but still combined with the Plex's headroom.
Also the phase for solos and flanger for a few things.
The 13k pickup was probably ceramic but at some point he did get to A2's.
Ed could have even got PAF's rewound to 16k with A2's (a JB like spec).
The way Ed was using his amps on the 1978 World Tour was in a 3 amps daisy chained together config (with a variac) and he had 3 sets (of 3 daisy chained amps) making a total of 9 (or more) amps.
This setup was for the bigger venues of the 1978 world tour and would have little in common with his club or recording setups.
Ed had an Eruption(Franky)/YRGM(Destroyer) live setup where he changed from one group of 3 daisy chained amps to another quickly because of needing to include the Univox in the Eruption signal chain and then quickly changing to a signal chain without the Univox for YRGM or sometimes something else.
So that's a lot of variables plus there are all of the VH1 recording variables with the Sunset Sound echo chamber and mic positions etc etc.
------------------------------------
The Warner Brothers demos (March/April 1977) were recorded just before Ed got onto tapping from seeing Harvey Mandel in mid 1977.
There is no tapping on the Warner Brothers demos and Ed's gear would have been very similar to the VH1 gear (VH1 probably recorded August/September 1977).
The production is just basic on the Warner Brothers demos and there is no huge Sunset Sound echo chamber reverb on it as it's just a Ted Templeman and Donn Landee demo.
So if someone wants a better idea of Ed's so called great sound without the gloss, then listen to the Warner Brothers demos that have minimal production.
-------------------------------------
Ed used his own gear for the Gene Simmons demos as it was recorded in LA but the overdubs were done in New York and the overdubbed bits were done in New York maybe with borrowed amps.
---------------------------------------
The amp that the techs saw can be ID'd by it's serial number and some of them have verified it was the serial of the so called main amp.
Jose wasn't known as a tone magician before VH broke through and why would Ed go to him except that he was able to get to him and Jose was probably not too expensive.
It's also pretty obvious that Jose was telling different people different things, a pedal, 2 different amp setups, master volume etc etc.
Ed was buying and selling a fair few amps around that 75/76 period and taking some of them to Jose for servicing makes sense.
Ed did not have his Marshall or other Marshall's around 1973, and he's pictured playing a Bandmaster and Ed himself has said he used to use the Bandmaster and also at home for practicing because he could do the low volume trick with it at home.
So the Marshall's probably start around 1974 and Ed bought and sold a few and he had a European one for a while that gave him the idea of using something like a Variac.
The Variac dropping the voltage, drops the power and alters the balance of the amp as Mike Soldano says to around 35 watts with the amp dimed, with the Variac dropping the voltage down to 90 volts.
So, it's not a 100 watt amp anymore and one cabinet can easily be used with it and Ed says that he sometimes dropped the voltage down below 90, depending on things.
All of that has little to do with Jose, and the knob or switch at the back of the amp could have been anything and a similar thing was not installed in Ed's other amps so whatever it was, it couldn't have been that important as if it was that important, then it would be in all of Ed's amps
I can't see the need for it to be a master volume btw (Jose's master volume diode thing just smooths out the distortion and drops the volume) because of the variac enabling dropping the amps power but still enabling the amp to be dimed and a thing like the one wire mod is not really needed to get Ed's gain level which is more than a PAF through a dimed Plexi as Mike Soldano said, but the gain level is veering more towards a 2203 but a 2203 gain level and compression isn't it and the gain level is more like a 13k pickup used with the Variac/Plexi and still getting the Plexi circuit headroom but there is more to the headroom and sustain thing .
Ed's Echoplex's are interesting because Ed bought them new when the Echoplex EP-3's were coming out with compressor circuits modelled on a MXR Dyna-Comp set to a medium type of compression.
Ed had the echo on a lot for the slight slapback echo, making the guitar sound bigger and wider and more 3D.
Ed bought a fair few Mighty Mites and even had a clear bobbin Mighty Mite in the Bee for a while, meaning that he bought a fair few Mighty Mites from Wayne Charvel and Ed has a Mighty Mite distortion in the Ibanez Destroyer in 1978 photos.
So the stock PAF stories are just that and Ed got hold of Seymour around late 1977/early 1978 to get some PAF's rewound with more wire (and therefore output) and Seymour was trying to sell the Custom (13k ceramic) as the EVH pickup until Ed stopped him.
The much later Seymour EVH pickup (9k A2) can basically be dismissed as it's way past Seymour's earlier EVH Custom pickup and I think the Seymour EVH pickup is just marketing and is so different to what Ed actually used that Seymour knows Ed would not come after him again.
So what it is so far, Plexi dropped down to 90 or less volts and being fed by a Echoplex with medium compression/sustain with snapback echo and a 13k pickup, and it's a pretty unique setup capable of gain/sustain but still combined with the Plex's headroom.
Also the phase for solos and flanger for a few things.
The 13k pickup was probably ceramic but at some point he did get to A2's.
Ed could have even got PAF's rewound to 16k with A2's (a JB like spec).
The way Ed was using his amps on the 1978 World Tour was in a 3 amps daisy chained together config (with a variac) and he had 3 sets (of 3 daisy chained amps) making a total of 9 (or more) amps.
This setup was for the bigger venues of the 1978 world tour and would have little in common with his club or recording setups.
Ed had an Eruption(Franky)/YRGM(Destroyer) live setup where he changed from one group of 3 daisy chained amps to another quickly because of needing to include the Univox in the Eruption signal chain and then quickly changing to a signal chain without the Univox for YRGM or sometimes something else.
So that's a lot of variables plus there are all of the VH1 recording variables with the Sunset Sound echo chamber and mic positions etc etc.
------------------------------------
The Warner Brothers demos (March/April 1977) were recorded just before Ed got onto tapping from seeing Harvey Mandel in mid 1977.
There is no tapping on the Warner Brothers demos and Ed's gear would have been very similar to the VH1 gear (VH1 probably recorded August/September 1977).
The production is just basic on the Warner Brothers demos and there is no huge Sunset Sound echo chamber reverb on it as it's just a Ted Templeman and Donn Landee demo.
So if someone wants a better idea of Ed's so called great sound without the gloss, then listen to the Warner Brothers demos that have minimal production.
-------------------------------------
Ed used his own gear for the Gene Simmons demos as it was recorded in LA but the overdubs were done in New York and the overdubbed bits were done in New York maybe with borrowed amps.
---------------------------------------
The amp that the techs saw can be ID'd by it's serial number and some of them have verified it was the serial of the so called main amp.