Modeling might be on my horizon...

[ChadVanHalen]

So, rejoined this cover band, typical 80's stuff, most of it is THAT tone, but there's a bit of clean breaks and this and that... Anyway, my current B rig won't do, and probably won't be able to use the Splawn all that much because of volume and weight (might work, we'll see) and since I'll be needing to put a new board together anyway I started seriously checking out modelers... If I was to go that direction I'm looking more at the Line 6 Helix, I like what I've heard and seen but... That's a lot of dough. So let me ask the hive mind...

So, assuming I'll be needing to, at the very least, need to pick up a new cab and put together a whole new board (won't need to get too crazy fx wise, but it'll have to be a full on board) would I be better off just getting a modeler? In terms of price, stage space, rehearsal volume, weight, amount of use after whenever this band ends... And if so does the POD HD whatever sound good with no amp at all or should I bite the bullet and get with a Helix? I know it has better amp models and you can load 3rd party cab IRs, etc

 

[BYTOR]

AX8 all the way......you'll have your Splawn model with all the gears modeled, & any other amp model you could possibly want. Many great included IRs as well, so you may not have to explore any 3rd party ones if you don't want to.

 

[agbiggs]

I LOVE Helix. I'm sure Axe2 and Kemper sound just as good, but the key with Helix is how easy it is to use. I had an HD500 and other people could get it to sound great, but it was too hard for me to figure out. Helix has very little learning curve.

 

[MrDowntown]

Not meaning to hijack ya thread but I've got a question... what do you guys run your modeler through to push air? Monitors, speaker cabs? Just wondering. IMO modeling is getting better and better and more and more cost effective, not to mention it's much less the ass-pain if gigging and you don't won't to leave your gear scattered about in different places....anyway.

I'm curious, I'm thinking about updating my modeler which is currently a HD 500 through a couple 50w monitors. Run them stereo XLR out...sounds ok but it ain't toobs

 

[thiswaythatway]

Another vote for the AX8.

 

[PBStudios]

like that

 

[stratjacket]

Not meaning to hijack ya thread but I've got a question... what do you guys run your modeler through to push air? Monitors, speaker cabs? Just wondering. IMO modeling is getting better and better and more and more cost effective, not to mention it's much less the ass-pain if gigging and you don't won't to leave your gear scattered about in different places....anyway.

I'm curious, I'm thinking about updating my modeler which is currently a HD 500 through a couple 50w monitors. Run them stereo XLR out...sounds ok but it ain't toobs

I used a QSC K12 for a long tie and it is fine. But last year I bought a Mission Engineering Gemini 2
https://missionengineering.com/product-category/products/amplifier/?v=7516fd43adaa
Gemini 1 has one 12" speaker, the Gemini 2 has two 12" speakers and can do stereo.
It was pricey, but I love it. It can get that pushed air thing that is so good, but also sounds great and very low volume.

 

[stratjacket]

@ChadVanHalen
Modellers are really good these days. The Helix, Kemper, Axe-Fx, are going to all be really good. If you just want to dab your toe in and see if you like the concept, you can probably find a cheap used Pod HD off craigslist, ebay or a message board somewhere and try it out. Then flip it back for about what you paid for it and go one of the newer ones or say screw modellers, give me my amp.
I would definitely recommend giving it a try though, it's a cool little wonder world to play in.

 

[rsm]

I've been using modelers for several years.

If you want a more traditional amp set-up have a look at the Boss Katana-100 head - it only supports one speaker cab connection. There are also a few combo models.

The Katana amp has surprised many with it's responsiveness, feel, volume and ability to take pedals. Worth a look, and it won't break the bank. There's a massive thread on the Katana series at TGP that's very positive on the amps, and has a great deal of helpful info, as does vguitarforum.

If you want to use the effects and channel switching live, you may want to consider the GA-FC floor controller.

The editor software (Boss Tone Studio) is very good (I use it with my Boss modelers: GT-100, GT-1, GP-10, SY-300, GT-001).

FWIW, if I was in the market for a new amp I'd be getting a Katana (I have too many amps and no more room as it is!).

 

[marl3y]

I've been using modelers for several years.

If you want a more traditional amp set-up have a look at the Boss Katana-100 head - it only supports one speaker cab connection. There are also a few combo models.

The Katana amp has surprised many with it's responsiveness, feel, volume and ability to take pedals. Worth a look, and it won't break the bank. There's a massive thread on the Katana series at TGP that's very positive on the amps, and has a great deal of helpful info, as does vguitarforum.

Definitely. Picked up the head myself. This is a really well conceived and executed piece of gear. Sounds great through a variety of cabs. Worth considering.

 

[cecilbag]

I understand wanting a modeler. I personally play Splawn and had the ax8. For me I needed the real deal. I'm not much of a tweaker though. I wouldn't think the Splawn and a 1x12 or 2x12 wouldn't be anymore to haul than the modeler plus the frfr cabs etc. hopefully it works for you, I just couldn't get used to it. Good luck

 

[ChadVanHalen]

For those saying the AX board over Helix board, any reason? From what I've seen the Helix has better UI and an expression pedal, etc and is a couple hundred less... I know Fractal as a brand is held in higher regard than Line 6 is, but is there any particular advantage to the Ax or flaw of the Helix that would make you go that way?

And how does the HD500 sound as a modeler alone? Straight into PA, no amps or cabs, etc

 

[thiswaythatway]

For those saying the AX board over Helix board, any reason? From what I've seen the Helix has better UI and an expression pedal, etc and is a couple hundred less... I know Fractal as a brand is held in higher regard than Line 6 is, but is there any particular advantage to the Ax or flaw of the Helix that would make you go that way?

And how does the HD500 sound as a modeler alone? Straight into PA, no amps or cabs, etc

The AX8 is cheaper than the Helix now. Helix new is $1499, AX8 is $1399 but I think they are dropping it to $1299.

Out of the box the AX8 blows the Helix away as far as amp modeling, you get tons of amp and cab sims with the AX8 and the cab sims on the AX8 are a LOT better than the Helix. Of course you can download cab sims for the Helix which gets it closer. My cheap Boss expression pedal works fine with the AX8 and it works great in 4CM, it sounded as good as the pedals I had so I sold them all.

I only use Axe Edit to adjust and tweak the AX8 and there's nothing easier once you use that.

 

[stratotone]

If you own amps you really dig, I'd say get a kemper and profile those amps, even if you need to go to a studio to have it done right. Then you'll have the sound of your amps. I have several vintage Marshalls, each sounds like a marshall but they have differences. If you're ok with an amp sounding 'like a marshall' then Line6 or Fractal may be the way to go. If you want an emulation to sound like YOUR amp, I'd say go Kemper. I've had mine since February 2012 and it's all I've used for gigs since.

 

[ChadVanHalen]

I think I recall Fractal having a very active community in terms of sharing patches and settings and stuff with each other... I'd assume you could load that stuff into the AX8 as well, right?

 

[kunos]

A unit that is never talked about in the modelling topics is the DV Mark Multiamp. Now if you are fanatic of recreating a particular amp in a particular situation the Multiamp isn't the best choice, but when it comes to tone, it can produce amazing sounds. The big win comes from the fact that it has a powerful amp built in, so all you'll need to gig is the Multiamp, a cab and a midi controller (you can go cheap with the typical FBC1010 or buy the DV Mark dedicated footswitch) and you're golden... price wise you'll be half way through a powered Kemper head and AX8+power unit.

 

[thiswaythatway]

I think I recall Fractal having a very active community in terms of sharing patches and settings and stuff with each other... I'd assume you could load that stuff into the AX8 as well, right?

Yes that's right. And they are always updated the firmware. While the Fractal haters throw around the typical, "Oh does it sound more realer than the last 20 updates" etc etc, still the updates fix bugs, address issues etc. They don't always just try and improve the tone, but they do tweak plenty in it. I think it's great to get free updates from a company actively supporting a product.

I think a few updates ago they added a few amp sims, adjusted how some of the wah's work, stuff like that.

 

[romanianreaper]

I think I recall Fractal having a very active community in terms of sharing patches and settings and stuff with each other... I'd assume you could load that stuff into the AX8 as well, right?

I'm pretty active over on the Fractal boards and yes very huge community over there and really helpful users. I have the Axe-FX but would definitely get the AX8 if my unit ever died, etc. There is a guitar magazine that just came out, and can't remember which one (Guitar Player?) but they did a rundown of all of the units you mentioned. They talked about the advantages and disadvantages, etc. If I remember correctly, the effects were best in Fractal, ease of use in the Helix and they said the Kemper was the best for studio? Don't quote me on any of that but it was a great rundown.

I know it will always be a huge debate as to what rig is "best" but there are a lot of things to consider. I think modeling has come to the point where you can have convenience and great tone. I'm at the point in my life that I am at home and do recordings and want to turn a dial and fix my ADD. If I want to play Deep Purple, I dial in a Plexi and old cab emulations. If I want Metallica I grab a Mesa, etc. I don't know what I would have if I was in a band playing the same kind of tone for every song. If you want a huge palette of tones, modeling is great.

 

[romanianreaper]

Yes that's right. And they are always updated the firmware. While the Fractal haters throw around the typical, "Oh does it sound more realer than the last 20 updates" etc etc, still the updates fix bugs, address issues etc. They don't always just try and improve the tone, but they do tweak plenty in it. I think it's great to get free updates from a company actively supporting a product.

I think a few updates ago they added a few amp sims, adjusted how some of the wah's work, stuff like that.

Yeah, there is a beta out right now and they focused this latest one on clean and mid-gain amps and people are saying it is a great improvement.

 

[thiswaythatway]

I think I recall Fractal having a very active community in terms of sharing patches and settings and stuff with each other... I'd assume you could load that stuff into the AX8 as well, right?

I'm pretty active over on the Fractal boards and yes very huge community over there and really helpful users. I have the Axe-FX but would definitely get the AX8 if my unit ever died, etc. There is a guitar magazine that just came out, and can't remember which one (Guitar Player?) but they did a rundown of all of the units you mentioned. They talked about the advantages and disadvantages, etc. If I remember correctly, the effects were best in Fractal, ease of use in the Helix and they said the Kemper was the best for studio? Don't quote me on any of that but it was a great rundown.

I know it will always be a huge debate as to what rig is "best" but there are a lot of things to consider. I think modeling has come to the point where you can have convenience and great tone. I'm at the point in my life that I am at home and do recordings and want to turn a dial and fix my ADD. If I want to play Deep Purple, I dial in a Plexi and old cab emulations. If I want Metallica I grab a Mesa, etc. I don't know what I would have if I was in a band playing the same kind of tone for every song. If you want a huge palette of tones, modeling is great.

You are correct 100%. Only a dipshit would dial up a Diezel for Metallica tones.