My tip for recording bass. You may already have a bass rig.

[thefyn]

Obviously don't blast it. My vol was 2 out of 10.

Hopefully this helps. You can get away with just an sm57 (esp for downtuned). But there are a lot of cheap used mic's designed for bass/kick/floor toms etc that add more of a sub swing.

Obviously since it's me, talky talk and soapbox modern metal recording whining etc. Plus talking about cookie cutter while using ezdrummer is comedy gold.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

Another fantastic post! I realized that I too am guilty of the cookie cutter technique.. this is mainly because bass for most of us is an after thought. I think you are right about D.I though. A lot of dynamics are lost and because of that, compression is used to bring it back up. With an actual tube amp, you respond dynamically better to your own playing. Same goes with cab impulses I think.

Wondering what you think of mic pre DI's? I noticed that my tone was better going straight into a GAP pre and pushing the levels a bit as opposed to going the SANSAMP route. I think I like that slightly cutting sound which leads me to my next thought, maybe I need to record with a bit of fuzz or distortion on bass. Have you played with that?

Anyway, another great video. I can't stand the cookie cutter approach and all genres are doing it now. Drum replacement is a plague. I ended up just using my own real drums and EQ'ing / compressing with my ears rather than any guidelines laid out in on line forums. I think the mix/production is as much an expression as is the performance. It is nice to have some variety. I am going to try recording some bass through my 2204 clone and eminence Super V speaker this weekend thanks to this post..

 

[cardinal]

Cool. I've run bass through the low input of my 2204 and G12-65 cab, and think it sounds fantastic. But sooo worried about shredding those speakers, especially with my 5-strings. I've just been keeping a look out for a cheaper Ampeg cab to use with the Marshall instead. I know the Marshall won't get terribly loud with a bass, but that's not what I need it for.

 

[maddnotez]

Cool. I've run bass through the low input of my 2204 and G12-65 cab, and think it sounds fantastic. But sooo worried about shredding those speakers, especially with my 5-strings. I've just been keeping a look out for a cheaper Ampeg cab to use with the Marshall instead. I know the Marshall won't get terribly loud with a bass, but that's not what I need it for.

I would definitely be using amp sims and cab IR's for the sake of those speakers.

So I just watched the whole video. Agree with you 100% on using real amps and everyone sounding the same, etc etc...

But Idk how I feel about running a bass through my guitar rig. If I had a cheap backup rig I would have no issues and I am sure it is not horrible with settings low like you said but it still sounds a bit scary to me.

 

[cardinal]

Cool. I've run bass through the low input of my 2204 and G12-65 cab, and think it sounds fantastic. But sooo worried about shredding those speakers, especially with my 5-strings. I've just been keeping a look out for a cheaper Ampeg cab to use with the Marshall instead. I know the Marshall won't get terribly loud with a bass, but that's not what I need it for.

I would dfinitely be using amp sims and cab IR's for the sake of those speakers.

Yeah, I almost always use a sim and FRFR speakers if I need real volume.

 

[thefyn]

Cool. I've run bass through the low input of my 2204 and G12-65 cab, and think it sounds fantastic. But sooo worried about shredding those speakers, especially with my 5-strings. I've just been keeping a look out for a cheaper Ampeg cab to use with the Marshall instead. I know the Marshall won't get terribly loud with a bass, but that's not what I need it for.

I would dfinitely be using amp sims and cab IR's for the sake of those speakers.

That's a good option. But a 4x12 sharing the load of a tube amp on 2 is easily within tolerances.

They are rated at 60 watts but unofficially Celestion state they can easily handle 75.

The 75 watt creamback sounds even better for bass. I'd never recommend a 20 watt creamback etc. but the modern vintage 30's are constantly being blasted by 9 stringers via a cranked 5150 boosted by a Maxon with a noise gate (so the popping from silent to blasting is constant) in 2x12's and I don't think I've ever read a blown speaker thread on the 7 string forum etc.

Celestion spread the rumor of guitar speakers getting blown by bass guitar, but they are in the biz of making you buy different types of speakers. Bass speakers often sound blankety in my experience. 10's can be awkward to get fullness. The 12 incher is a good allround size for a dual mic setup.

 

[thefyn]

Another fantastic post! I realized that I too am guilty of the cookie cutter technique.. this is mainly because bass for most of us is an after thought. I think you are right about D.I though. A lot of dynamics are lost and because of that, compression is used to bring it back up. With an actual tube amp, you respond dynamically better to your own playing. Same goes with cab impulses I think.

Wondering what you think of mic pre DI's? I noticed that my tone was better going straight into a GAP pre and pushing the levels a bit as opposed to going the SANSAMP route. I think I like that slightly cutting sound which leads me to my next thought, maybe I need to record with a bit of fuzz or distortion on bass. Have you played with that?

Anyway, another great video. I can't stand the cookie cutter approach and all genres are doing it now. Drum replacement is a plague. I ended up just using my own real drums and EQ'ing / compressing with my ears rather than any guidelines laid out in on line forums. I think the mix/production is as much an expression as is the performance. It is nice to have some variety. I am going to try recording some bass through my 2204 clone and eminence Super V speaker this weekend thanks to this post..

I think mic pre DI's are hit and miss. I've used top of the line bass DI's and they were a little too "nice" sounding. If you listen to famous bass sounds isolated on classic albums, the bass sound is usually very sub oriented and distorted. Which is why I recommend a mic that can handle the lower freqs.

Delighted you like my channel. I really need to drink coffee before doing these. If you did a drinking game, e wry time I say "erm" or "you know" and take a shot, you will be wandering naked in traffic after 20 mins.

 

[maddnotez]

Cool. I've run bass through the low input of my 2204 and G12-65 cab, and think it sounds fantastic. But sooo worried about shredding those speakers, especially with my 5-strings. I've just been keeping a look out for a cheaper Ampeg cab to use with the Marshall instead. I know the Marshall won't get terribly loud with a bass, but that's not what I need it for.

I would dfinitely be using amp sims and cab IR's for the sake of those speakers.

That's a good option. But a 4x12 sharing the load of a tube amp on 2 is easily within tolerances.

They are rated at 60 watts but unofficially Celestion state they can easily handle 75.

The 75 watt creamback sounds even better for bass. I'd never recommend a 20 watt creamback etc. but the modern vintage 30's are constantly being blasted by 9 stringers via a cranked 5150 boosted by a Macon with a noise gate (so the popping from silent to blasting is constant) in 2x12's and I don't think I've ever read a blown speaker thread on the 7 string forum etc.

Celestion spread the rumor of guitar speakers getting blown by bass guitar, but they are in the biz of making you buy different types of speakers. Bass speakers often sound blankety in my experience. 10's can be awkward to get fullness. The 12 incher is a good allround size for a dual mic setup.

That is true (see my edited first post)

But I would be more worried about the frequencies and not the wattage.

V30 for example 70-5,000 frequency range. Average Bass guitar frequency 60.

I am not going to pretend I am an expert at any of this but is just seems scary to me.


Edit: Like Kapo explained better. Those 65's are very pricey and I would not even want to risk it. Those start at a 80hz frequency too according to Celestion.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

real cab would probably still edge out the IR but the dynamics are already taken care of by the tube amp so that's a win there. In my case I am not too concerned about the eminence speaker as it is rated for 100 W. I too would be worried about blasting a nice old or well worn in G12-65.

 

[stratjacket]

I usually write it out my bass lines in Guitar Pro and play through Spectrasonics Trilian.

 

[thefyn]

Cool. I've run bass through the low input of my 2204 and G12-65 cab, and think it sounds fantastic. But sooo worried about shredding those speakers, especially with my 5-strings. I've just been keeping a look out for a cheaper Ampeg cab to use with the Marshall instead. I know the Marshall won't get terribly loud with a bass, but that's not what I need it for.

Yep it's possible to push it but what's the worst case scenario? $70 used? The tone is worth the risk. And like I said, 9 stringers are constantly blasting a 5150 through 2x12's boosted for djent and I've never seen a blown speaker thread on the 7 string forum.

Let's be dangerous...

The only thing I've ever blown was a ribbon mic. It was close to a port on my buzzbomb and the wind coming out of the port tore the foil inside. I modded that mic's transformer too. But it was a sign of the bass gods because the MXL ribbon mic I replaced it with was much (surprisingly) better.

So much bloom. Check it out on a room:

It's trying to capture the room as an effect to blend in with close moving.
So there is a pair of condenser mic's recording walls going nuts etc with tgectibbon in the middle.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

Another fantastic post! I realized that I too am guilty of the cookie cutter technique.. this is mainly because bass for most of us is an after thought. I think you are right about D.I though. A lot of dynamics are lost and because of that, compression is used to bring it back up. With an actual tube amp, you respond dynamically better to your own playing. Same goes with cab impulses I think.

Wondering what you think of mic pre DI's? I noticed that my tone was better going straight into a GAP pre and pushing the levels a bit as opposed to going the SANSAMP route. I think I like that slightly cutting sound which leads me to my next thought, maybe I need to record with a bit of fuzz or distortion on bass. Have you played with that?

Anyway, another great video. I can't stand the cookie cutter approach and all genres are doing it now. Drum replacement is a plague. I ended up just using my own real drums and EQ'ing / compressing with my ears rather than any guidelines laid out in on line forums. I think the mix/production is as much an expression as is the performance. It is nice to have some variety. I am going to try recording some bass through my 2204 clone and eminence Super V speaker this weekend thanks to this post..

I think mic pre DI's are hit and miss. I've used top of the line bass DI's and they were a little too "nice" sounding. If you listen to famous bass sounds isolated on classic albums, the bass sound is usually very sub oriented and distorted. Which is why I recommend a mic that can handle the lower freqs.

Delighted you like my channel. I really need to drink coffee before doing these. If you did a drinking game, e wry time I say "erm" or "you know" and take a shot, you will be wandering naked in traffic after 20 mins.

Nah, the "erm" adds character.. keeps it from being a cookie cutter production vid as well.. how about a tour of the studio and mic setup? Have you done that yet on your channel? Really digging this "less" is more and "use what you have" mentality. Keep people focused on music and performance.

 

[thefyn]

Another fantastic post! I realized that I too am guilty of the cookie cutter technique.. this is mainly because bass for most of us is an after thought. I think you are right about D.I though. A lot of dynamics are lost and because of that, compression is used to bring it back up. With an actual tube amp, you respond dynamically better to your own playing. Same goes with cab impulses I think.

Wondering what you think of mic pre DI's? I noticed that my tone was better going straight into a GAP pre and pushing the levels a bit as opposed to going the SANSAMP route. I think I like that slightly cutting sound which leads me to my next thought, maybe I need to record with a bit of fuzz or distortion on bass. Have you played with that?

Anyway, another great video. I can't stand the cookie cutter approach and all genres are doing it now. Drum replacement is a plague. I ended up just using my own real drums and EQ'ing / compressing with my ears rather than any guidelines laid out in on line forums. I think the mix/production is as much an expression as is the performance. It is nice to have some variety. I am going to try recording some bass through my 2204 clone and eminence Super V speaker this weekend thanks to this post..

I think mic pre DI's are hit and miss. I've used top of the line bass DI's and they were a little too "nice" sounding. If you listen to famous bass sounds isolated on classic albums, the bass sound is usually very sub oriented and distorted. Which is why I recommend a mic that can handle the lower freqs.

Delighted you like my channel. I really need to drink coffee before doing these. If you did a drinking game, e wry time I say "erm" or "you know" and take a shot, you will be wandering naked in traffic after 20 mins.

Nah, the "erm" adds character.. keeps it from being a cookie cutter production vid as well.. how about a tour of the studio and mic setup? Have you done that yet on your channel? Really digging this "less" is more and "use what you have" mentality. Keep people focused on music and performance.

Yep I'll be doing a project studio tour one day. My room is an absolute shameful disaster at the moment.

It's amazing what a mess the recreation vids make. When I'm swapping out pedals, amps, cabs, effects, cables, mic's the aftermath is a sight to behold.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

Oh my! mad scientist... that explains the one camera angle .

 

[errrrrl]

Great video, just sub'd! I've been running my bass thru my Rivera tre clean channel and using ampeg 4x10 and 15 inch IR bass cabs and it sounds pretty cool.

I was actually wondering how you get your guitar tracks to sound so dominant sounding in your recording? For some reason my guitar tracks on my home recordings sound distant sounding to me. Any tips on how to get them to sound more in your face in the mix? I'm curious how many guitar tracks were in your recording and how did you pan them? I'm currently using Reaper, tube heads with IR's, but am wondering if I need to start mic'ing it.

Here is an example of something I did last month which came out ok-ish.. but would love to be able to get the guitars more closer and dominant sounding in the mix. Thanks!

And another example of the guitars just sounding far away... it drive me nuts =/

https://soundcloud.com/faka-894685110/we-fight-we-kill-we-die

 

[SpiderWars]

Cool video as always. Chris Squire's early Yes tone was always my benchmark and I believe I read that it was just cranked Marshalls.

Regarding speaker damage; If I crank a 100W amp and chug on a guitar low E it rattles the walls, etc. So as long as I'm not rattling the walls too much then it seems playing bass wouldn't be doing any more damage as cranked guitar chug. Those low frequency numbers are just a rolloff.

 

[cardinal]

The fear seems to be speaker cone excusion. Those low notes, especially a 5-string, make the cone move more than they were intended and potentially ripping them.

I've heard that in an open back cab the speakers would be toast at even lower volumes. A sealed cab though helps keeps the cone in check better.

 

[thefyn]

Great video, just sub'd! I've been running my bass thru my Rivera tre clean channel and using ampeg 4x10 and 15 inch IR bass cabs and it sounds pretty cool.

I was actually wondering how you get your guitar tracks to sound so dominant sounding in your recording? For some reason my guitar tracks on my home recordings sound distant sounding to me. Any tips on how to get them to sound more in your face in the mix? I'm curious how many guitar tracks were in your recording and how did you pan them? I'm currently using Reaper, tube heads with IR's, but am wondering if I need to start mic'ing it.

Here is an example of something I did last month which came out ok-ish.. but would love to be able to get the guitars more closer and dominant sounding in the mix. Thanks!

And another example of the guitars just sounding far away... it drive me nuts =/

https://soundcloud.com/faka-894685110/we-fight-we-kill-we-die

Thanks man!

That clip was bass heavy for effect but a big aspect of my sound is quality cables/internal guitar wire/internal speaker wire and good xlr cables. But you can get 85% of the way with two sm57's and a Friedman mic clip. I'm currently researching affordable cables and harnesses to get close to my setup without the cost.

Here is a link that explains the Friedman clip and a cheap mic stand:

The clip in that video was three stereo guitar tracks. The clip in the bass vid was two stereo guitar tracks. The Friedman clip is a godsend for metal.

The panning is hard right and left. The stereo clips are not mixed equally volume wise. While we is sharper is dominant and hard panned. The bassier tone is lowered and panned halfway (9:30am).

The bass tracks (two mic's via the Friedman clip) is usually panned a little off center. Having slightly more bass on one side adds a 3D feel. I don't even offset the bass volume. When it's panned close to the center it's not that off balance.

I do use one plugin. It's waves one knob louder on the master. Simple eh? I do all my eq on the amps/room etc. I don't like to tweak after. Good quality cables is my secret. I use evidence mostly. And vintage wire in the guitars along with pure tone jacks. I also use a Tascam uh7000 that I A/B'd vs RME, Roland, focusrite etc and it was the nicest pre. It has burr brown converters, dedicated power etc and an amazing noise floor/clarity.

I'm selling mine though. I've opened it up to 4 tracks by adding 2 digital converters which open up its AES ports but I need more. I've outgrown 4 inputs. I'm looking at antelope stuff.

I just listened to your clip. Love the crux of the tone. What was the setup?

 

[thefyn]

The fear seems to be speaker cone excusion. Those low notes, especially a 5-string, make the cone move more than they were intended and potentially ripping them.

I've heard that in an open back cab the speakers would be toast at even lower volumes. A sealed cab though helps keeps the cone in check better.

In the vid I state the volume was at 2. There really is no need to worry. And if you make a mistake and blast them, it's $80 used. Not the end of the world. This is ROCK! We are men. Don't be afraid guy's!

Celestion spread a lot of dodgy info about not using guitar speakers for bass. It's just a ruse to sell more speaker types. We have 5150's blaring 9 strings in 2x12's and I've never heard of blown speakers on the 7 string forum. Lemmy used guitar speakers.

Modern speakers are not like the 70's ones. It's almost impossible to find v30's on the used market that have coil issues. They are rated way beyond thier 60 watts. And the damage is usually impact from cabs toppling forwards.

There are piles of speakers in boxes behind me, I have cabs in the garage, front room, studio...I'm obsessed with speakers. Trust me. Playing bass through a vintage 30 at low volumes is harmless. I've been doing this for ages. I know speakers.

 

[crwnedblasphemy]

Good vid...thought I would chime in.

I think a lot has to also do with the LOUDNESS EFFECT. Wanting to brick wall everything at 0db, or in Metallica's case on Death Magnetic, +2db. haha I agree on ear fatigue, and bass distortion, I used to use Ampeg plugin, but never used the compressor on it. Sounded good in a mix with AIC type songs. This worked for Maiden on their last couple albums...they just sent the mix straight to print...no mastering.

But bottom line is Dynamics. The best comparison I have ever read is its like TYPING IN ALL CAPITAL LETTERS THROUGHOUT A WHOLE BOOK. WHEN THIS HAPPENS YOUR EYES CAN'T TELL THE FEELING OF THE WORDS. Just like music. Lack of dynamics in metal is actually beginning to reverse. There are a shit ton of new Thrash/old school type metal bands that are going for a retro sound. And a lot are pulling it off. Death Metal too. Search around and you will find them. I dig this, cuz it just adds to the feel of an album.

It would be like if every human was a clone. No one would like that. Diversity in dynamics and mastering is a beautiful thing...So don't ever come at me with "I don't like the production, it's not polished enough." If the artist themselves is happy, then so be it.